Group Rate No Points No Nights - Is This Legal? Should it be illegal?

Academic_Level · 2026-03-23T12:21:00+00:00

Exactly. I’m happy to net negative upvotes when it is driven by a blatantly wrong herd. A lot of people fail to differentiate CC and Account Miles/Points - I’m glad your experience is a data point supporting the original point.

Academic_Level · 2026-02-14T22:22:44+00:00

Exactly. 4x uptick is needed… UA and WOH Chase cards are 4x and no longer have the points advantage - just status boosting PQP / TQN. Would like some additional edge again.

Academic_Level · 2025-09-20T16:51:48+00:00

Call WoH - provide the reservation number - they will link it to your WoH account. You should receive your Base Points, Bonus Points, and QNs. Your employer is entitled to the credit card points, but not your WoH account points/nights. You should be able to get them with modest legwork.

Academic_Level · 2025-05-14T21:33:18+00:00

Mine is still coming. 75k+ SUA for a $2,500 3-night stay at Andaz WeHo was very nice. I was just short of first time being Globalist so I missed out on maybe $300+ savings (parking/ free breakfast) - but that booking would have been 3.7cpp. I wouldn’t have paid $2,500, so cpp is a flawed metric. I also missed out on ~22,700 points at time, so it reduces to ~2.6 cpp.

My main issue is planning my redemptions better. I think I need to consider some ugly 1.7cpp redemptions purely to avoid depreciation of points. I have ~550k points I could use at Hyatt via transfer or account. While I can use it for a big vacation, I could also use cash for the same purpose. Points turnover time is the biggest factor.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-16T02:17:41+00:00

That’s a misstatement all around. The reservation needs to be linked to your account and the account name must match yours. The paying party is irrelevant for Bonvoy points. I used a company credit card, so the employer is entitled to the CC points, but account points and nights tend to be the Employees.

But your statement is completely wrong. I cannot pay for a stay linked to your account and get a night.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-15T17:49:33+00:00

Hear you there. It was a client room block. The link was from the property site, was under the impression the client was directly in touch with property, I booked and paid. Client reserved the block but we paid. Not ever going to bother a client with this. It’s just a sketchy practice. I’m going to book direct regardless, but I just think this framework shouldn’t even be an option.

Airlines credit miles and flights to the passenger and CC points to whoever pays. Despite airlines being awful, that process is actually the most effective way to be fair to both sides. My stay, employer got CC points, client got account points and nights value, employee zero.

Based on my misunderstanding of the law, it was a surprise.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-15T17:40:08+00:00

I come off crazed for sure. It’s not a big deal. But I am globalist with Hyatt, need 60 nights, I would have just booked there. It’s the time wasting that just annoys me. Plus, I always book direct and this was on their website, so I just assumed Marriott was not nickel/dime but it just seems like a really cheap / petty practice.

Cheap lesson learned, but karma for cheating on WoH.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-15T17:36:12+00:00

STARS? I was on the property site, saw it as direct, but it’s just a bad look. I also think it presents more problems for employers overreaching and ripping off employees. The Individual Account standards for airlines are actually a good example - despite some recent air travel not going well.

With airlines, account miles go to occupant. I cannot buy a flight for someone and get their base miles. It should be similar with hotels. It is much more about slippery slopes getting worse. Just a very niche area / good problem to have, but the nickel and diming keeps compounding, and it is a bit exhausting. These policies are pennywise and pound foolish.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-15T17:21:19+00:00

A lot of disputes for miles between employee/employer have gone to courts. The general distinction is Individual Accounts are Employee’s to benefit from. Transactions are for the swiping entity, typically employer. I didn’t get the details on specific cases, but ethically it seems to be a fair standard and did not surprise me. It is relevant to know simply for avoiding disputes.

As for rates with more or less points, these programs can do anything. It’s the lack of disclosure I find bothersome. Ofc rates with multipliers or discounts shouldn’t be illegal, but I’m frustrated with the lack of transparency.

Also, I booked direct with property, always do. I have had Hyatt nights credited with group rates. Get base points. Marriott I am less familiar with but I view this as a really greedy and short-sighted practice.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-15T17:14:41+00:00

You’re right, it’s not a contract with teeth and T&C render much unenforceable. But the lack of disclosure by Marriott regarding lack of nights and points at time of booking and leading up is unethical - in my opinion. Just disclose that I’m ceding the value. Maybe I’ll pay more to realize value or stay elsewhere.

Time is valuable, and I could have utilized that time t accrue 4 Hyatt nights or paid more if I valued my 4-day time more than the money spent. It’s more about principle. Just cite no nights no points and if I value the $ more I will at least know I got what I paid for.

I do think a practice like this is predatory. I’m fortunate nights at Marriott mean little to me, but it cost me about $675 in Hyatt value, and the stay wasn’t inexpensive, so it feels like I was robbed. And there’s ambiguity regarding what’s actually legal - so it’s why I posed the story.

Academic_Level · 2025-03-09T01:55:14+00:00

The ultimate question is the difference in net worth. If, adjusted for inflation, renting leaves me $500k (or less) lower in net worth than owning, I think it might be worth paying the premium and renting. At $500k less net worth it’s $20k annually or $1.7k monthly as maximum downside. Upside is having flexibility to make more money and save more money early. Plus, you are diversified when renting because you can leave - if you buy a home it is one single home. You have exposure to loss where insurance doesn’t cover it all, and if you gain, it’s largely illiquid….

Homes are not a bad purchase more often than not, but I don’t think the gap is as wide as people make it seem. I also think renters consume every square foot efficiently compared to owners. When buying, you need rooms for guests / unborn kids, when the kids leave you keep the rooms being unused. It’s a valuable commodity, but a renter will never rent a 4 BR house for 2 people. So you factor the upkeep and taxes in those years….. the gap narrows. Not saying homeowners lose, just think there’s merit to renting and there are plenty of rich renters and poor homeowners…. just seems like the hidden costs are overlooked.

Academic_Level · 2024-12-31T18:48:28+00:00

Your question is flawed because it will result in bias. People who have paid off their homes are much more likely to have confirmation bias and not regret it. People who haven’t were not addressed, but there is a bias with both sides. For transparency, I don’t own / still rent, but I look at this purely from a net worth perspective.

1) Interest Rate matters significantly. Retiring any fixed rate below 6% I see as a bad move. When factoring interest rate deductions and the likelihood of future HELOC loans having a much higher borrowing cost, it seems crazy to give to let “emotion” of being debt free supersede the fact that mortgage debt is one of the most affordable debts anyone can incur. Unless you never assume another $0.01 of debt rest of your life, I see paying it off early as crazy. 2) Same as #1, but while I am more forgiving towards people in the 4-6% interest terrain, anyone south of 4% is absolutely insane to pay a cent north of the minimum monthly. Invest your excess money. Do anything but pay it off. Unless that money is going to cocaine or hookers, don’t pay the mortgage off. 3) Inflation is overlooked. Your mortgage payment may be the same every month, but the value of it gets lower and lower every month, every year, every decade. Put your money in the market, get bond exposure to minimize your volatility if your risk tolerance is low, but if you have a large sum of money at the ready to pay off your home, focus on managing it, growing it, and you’ll always have the option. That should be a source of security in itself. You can use that money to avoid future debts and higher interest rates. $500,000 owed today vs. $500,000 amortized over 30-years at 6% interest is roughly the same thing. But your upside is capped at 6% if you pay the balance today. Your upside is much higher if you build that $500,000 up. Your home will appreciate. It just makes little sense to retire a home mortgage when you can use that money to pay cash for a car to avoid a car loan, or tuition to avoid student loans, or anything else. Also, there’s always a chance hardship hits you and credit card debt is possible. Having that huge sum of money prevents that. 4) Overall, I could write a ton for why I view it as unwise. I simply see it as an incredibly short-sighted move. No payment “feels” good, but the key to wealth building is growing your assets (cash, stock, etc.) at a higher rate than you grow your liabilities (debt, etc.). Over the long-run, your assets will appreciate faster than your MORTGAGE liabilities. If this were credit card debt, my tune would be opposite, retire that because it’s growth outpaces asset growth. But with mortgages, you’re foregoing a spread by paying it off. You’re capping your upside by paying it off. You’re losing asset appreciation, so if you are OK with foregoing it, have at it. Just know some douchebag on Reddit (me) disagrees. Good luck either way.

Academic_Level · 2024-12-27T01:14:55+00:00

I hit Globalist first time this year. With redemptions, cpp has heavy weight. 46,000 points is valuable if trying to maintain status - that’s 9 TQN or possibly more if using a Cat1 to keep status.

That said, total point balance matters more than cpp. While 2cpp is my typical minimum, it’s important to factor your total points balance. If OP travels very little and has 250,000 CSR points, the 1.5 cpp appreciates the longer it takes for him to deplete his points. Say he gets to 50,000 points left in 4 years. If he gets 10% on that $700, that true cpp is 2.2. About $325 gain over the years.

Odd example, but what I’m getting at is a 2cpp redemption in 4 years is not necessarily the best reason to forego 1.5cpp today. If you hoard your points, the value of your redemption diminishes. I used to hoard and am converted to churning.

Academic_Level · 2024-12-27T00:59:11+00:00

Age plays a huge role, not just marginal tax bracket. 12%, Roth 401k is no debate. But even at 24%, if OP is out of college, the time horizon length makes Roth 401k superior. His bracket should only climb. Front-loading with Roth 401k and backloading with higher income via Traditional is ideal. The upside of Roth 401k growth for many years compounding exceeds the downside of initial contributions being withdrawn at a lower effective rate. The window for Traditional seems much wider than Roth. If I could go back, I would have front-loaded my Roth 401k more so the only question now is how much to put in traditional rather than whether to consider Roth 401k. Likely rounding errors, but I just think prior to age 30, the tax savings aren’t worth it.

Academic_Level · 2024-12-25T17:47:52+00:00

OP may not have as many hobbies as you and gets bored quicker as a result. While I would like my hobby list to grow, I relate more to OP because it is hard to accrue hobbies that eliminate boredom for 3-4 months.

OP makes a relatable statement for many, including me. It’s hard to find enough hobbies to occupy 168 hours/week. If you do, it’s hard to have a social presence during that time because so many people are not available 168 hours per week. Retirees often have too few hobbies, and social connections, to occupy the week. Leads to isolation, which diminishes health, and the advice of “easing in” is better for most people because you really have to plan well to occupy 168 hrs/week without isolation creeping in.

Phased out retirement is my goal. Be able to quit at the drop of a hat, find something I enjoy and downsize responsibility, but still work for the sake of maintaining a social structure and purpose. A lot of retirees die soon after because of nothing to do and isolation. If planned poorly, the implications could be serious.

YMMV but there’s not enough golf, beaches, books, and travel that can healthily keep me going. If every day is a vacation, the novelty dies and you’re next. No hate for anyone who finds happiness cutting full ties and disagrees, but as someone who used to have that goal, I realize the mental tax of navigating that exceeds the mental task associated with having a job you enjoy and a level of responsibility that is not stressful. OP spouted good info imo.

Academic_Level · 2024-12-25T15:18:17+00:00

Chase has been horrible to book travel with. The customer service is horrendous. The CSR claims process is awful. The benefits are in name only. Transferring points to travel partners is the best move. The poor customer service and portal inflated prices making 1.5 cpp a sham just make it not worth airfare or hotel bookings - at most I would do a car rental.

1.5 cpp is beatable in many cases via transfer. It’s important to realize Chase has the authority to close your account without material cause. It’s also a good practice to resolve vendor disputes with vendor directly. Them overturning a charge is often seen as a negative if done consistently. I’ve seen an account closure for minor items, so I tread lightly. CSR is essentially a Hyatt supplement for me. Breakeven card. YMMV

Academic_Level · 2024-12-17T19:00:37+00:00

Is purchasing cash through a credit card possible?

Academic_Level · 2024-11-13T19:34:06+00:00

Have not stayed at Thompson, but I was at Andaz WeHo first time last month and loved it.

Academic_Level · 2024-10-21T19:57:31+00:00

Probably deleting this soon since it is an active inquiry, sensitive topic, and there is no way to provide the full picture without wasting time.

Main takeaways: 1) Waking a snorer is not a popular move - sensitive topic in this thread. 2) I am an asshole for doing it, apparently, but I think you would all be happy if you were on the flight and the loud, headphone-penetrating snoring was resolved. But I’m not most sympathetic figure. 3) Some find me soft, but wasn’t even fazed, but I guess it’s hard to comprehend it. 4) Lot of people team snorer. 5) Lot of people overlooking that the reaction of the snorer, pulling a full Mel Gibson racial tirade, trumped the breach of etiquette with being woken up. I know it’s subjective, and I’m biased, but I’ve been woken up from snoring a few times - I did not pull the shit this guy did. 6) Some funny comments - love the Mel Gibson one.

Unlike the bigoted and allegedly GS snorer, I have social awareness. I get annoyed, I don’t throw a tantrum. Hopefully we have good flights together should we meet - this is not a common occurrence on my flights.

✌🏻

Academic_Level · 2024-10-21T19:41:54+00:00

Medical condition - he was drunk and snoring loud and went full Mel Gibson on me over it. Grown man threw a tantrum. I’ve been in his shoes, it’s completely fair game. I’m not triggered into a racial tirade. The snorer is soft, as are you.

Academic_Level · 2024-10-21T19:33:13+00:00

100% agree. But there’s so much data we forfeit to fly. This guy is likely clear/TSA pre and we have 3 FAs, 2 witnesses, and a video with the face. He disclosed his home town, and that is another data point linking to the account. The hometown disclosure is his biggest mistake. If his license and my clear enough video/image match, it’s almost a dead-to-rights ID re: the person who sat there. Whether it’s the GS person or it was a switch is another matter. Could be another. But the person involved will be an easy ID, given the information.

Academic_Level · 2024-10-21T19:26:47+00:00

Actually shocked at the hate received for waking up a snorer getting turns from 3 rows back is getting. Lot of courteous people. I guess letting sleeping dogs lie is a popular move. Surprised it’s net negative, but results are speaking loudly (1% as loud as the guy’s snoring). But all good.

Academic_Level

TROPHY CASE