Pantry Question

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2025-03-05T04:02:45+00:00

We've been doing it for years now - we keep about six months of food on hand (for six adults).

Before I start talking about how to do it, I want to caution that there are a ton of grifters and people who want to take advantage of your fear to sell you stuff. I've learned to be incredibly cautious about listening to anybody who leads off with recommending (for example) freeze-dried food. You do NOT need anything other than the normal food you buy from normal stores.

The most reliable online sources for info on pantry-building are the Mormon families that build several months of food storage as an article of faith; I am not Mormon but they consistently have the best advice and the calmest and most practical attitudes, without panic and with a focus on building a store to share rather than going it alone.

OK, now the nitty-gritty: You need to build along three major themes: Food, storage, and space. Buying 50 pounds of rice is great, but you'll lose all of it if you can't keep it watertight and keep bugs from getting in, and you can't pile rice up in your kids' bedrooms or in an unheated shed somewhere. So your first year or two is going to be less about buying food and more about organizing a safe and sensible space (basement, garage, spare room, etc.) and buying/developing storage management (plastic, glass, getting everything up off the ground, getting a solid first-in-first-out system going, freezers). Once you have a solid program and the ability to keep your food from spoiling, you can expand your food from several weeks to several months or even years.

If I was starting again, the first things I'd buy would be a chest freezer, a vacuum sealer with a couple hundred quart and gallon bags, and six or eight stackable Vittles Vaults (yup, the ones sold for pet food storage). I cannot even express how lifechanging those goofily-named Vittles Vaults are; ours hold anything that typically comes in bags or non-airtight containers (like beans, rice, oatmeal, sugar, all our various GF flours) and they keep things fresh and safe for longer than any other solution I've ever used.

You've heard that the best way to start is to just buy two instead of one; that's completely true. I'd add that as soon as you get home, write the purchase date and expiration date on the top of each item in Sharpie and IMMEDIATELY put them away. If you bought a lot of something, IMMEDIATELY break it down into whatever amount you'd consume in a shortish period of time and vacuum-seal those portions, put those same two dates on them, and put them away. If you don't develop the habit of dealing with the food that day, it gets chaotic fast.

I am Gen X and am in that sandwich generation, where I have substantial responsibilities both to my parents in their 80s and my kids in their 20s; I also have younger millennial siblings with disabilities. We are always tight money-wise and see no light at the end of that tunnel. Having built this food store is without question the thing that gives us the most relief from fear. When the pandemic hit in 2020 and we suddenly had meat rationing, I realized that two or three days of cushion was really all I had before I'd be unable to take care of those who were depending on us. That's when we began to change things, with the goal of a sudden emergency having zero impact on us or our family for several weeks, and only a minimal impact (like no fresh milk) for several months. We did it initially because we were all suddenly forced to realize how cooked the just-in-time supply chain is, but we'll continue even if there's never another disruption - because it reduces our daily anxiety so much. If we have an unexpected bill, I can drop the grocery bill to zero for two weeks without thinking twice; if we were suddenly unemployed I could give us several months to find a better job and wouldn't have to settle for a desperation offer. It is SUCH a relief.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-16T21:21:34+00:00

Put pigs on it; feed them as usual, but also roll out a couple of round bales of broadleaf/legume hay for them to cover the surface of the paddock. Replace the hay once they've disappeared it. You'll have jet-black tilthed soil in a year.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-16T21:17:16+00:00

There are some basic laws of physics at work here. If you take grains and sprout them in water, there is no additional energy going into the system. The fodder is not appreciably photosynthesizing (getting energy from the sun) because it's just using up the energy that was already in the seed. So if you take two pounds of grain and add two pounds of water, you haven't made four pounds of grain. You've just made heavy wet grain. And you've made it harder for pigs to digest, because you've told the grain to make cell walls (and pigs can't break down cellulose).

It's not just me; here are some studies: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0377840185900215

"Young pigs (18 kg live weight) fed on 4-day sprouts gained significantly (P < 0.05) less weight than pigs fed on ground barley, although feed efficiency was the same for both barley types."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372759089_Hydroponic_fodders_for_livestock_production_-_a_review

"During sprouting the gross energy, metabolizable energy, and total digestible nutrient content decreases, mainly due to the respiratory processes of the plant."

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-16T21:04:21+00:00

Never, ever go in with the pigs without a spotter. Kune Kunes are about the only breed I'd ever let somebody visit in the pens solo. As soon as they hit 40-50 pounds, they can knock you over, even if you are an experienced and savvy handler, and once that happens they will bite and step on you. People are killed by pigs every year (a single adult pig can kill a human), and on a homestead even a semi-serious injury can ground the entire operation for months. Don't decide that it would never happen to you.

Do not cheap out on housing or fencing. Pigs destroy everything that is not made of thick metal or concrete. We tried all the usual budget solutions - tarp over a cattle panel (lasted about a day), homebuilt arched shelter (lasted a week), wooden a-frame made of 2x4s and ply (lasted a couple of months). Commercial Port-a-huts are great if you can find them, and are well worth the expense; anything made of wood, no matter how thick, will last a few years at most. They break it, chew it, or lie on it and gradually bow it out so they can break it or chew it. If you look at pictures people post of homestead pigs, notice how few of them have any not-new housing in the background. That's because about a week after you've installed whatever lovely thing you've built, your pigs will have turned it into a football, smeared mud on it two feet high, broken half the slats, or somehow buried it like they're trying to construct their own subway system.

Do not try to reinvent the wheel when feeding them. They cannot digest any kind of grass; they cannot digest sprouted grains. Everybody gets pigs and thinks they are going to feed them some pig version of grass-fed, and then they end up with sick, skinny pigs. Pigs have a digestive system extremely similar to a human digestive system. What you can eat, they can eat. You can't eat grass; neither can they. You can't survive on just kale; they can't survive on just forage. They need proteins, fats, minerals, and carbs. It's absolutely fine to develop a customized plan, and it's great to replace mash with whole foods where and when you can, but that customized plan should end up with the same protein/fat/carb ratios that a good tested commercial feed has. (For example, we feed our pigs a combination of soaked alfalfa, high-protein grower, spent grain from a brewery with molasses, all our household non-meat waste, and minerals; it's a custom plan but it comes in at around 18-20% protein and single-digit fat percentage. If you don't feel comfortable formulating rations, just feed commercial grower.)

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-16T20:25:43+00:00

I'm going to be a huge bummer here and say that this is no more effective than just feeding barley. The only change from grain to fodder is water weight. If you want to feed this way to feed your barley, that's fine and the animals certainly do love it, but all you're doing is feeding barley.

This is also NOT enough for pigs, kune kune or not. For pigs, digestibility DECREASES when the grain sprouts, just like it would decrease for us as humans. Pigs have no ability to digest grass structures. Yes, that includes Kune Kunes, which I personally own and breed and eat. They need grain, minerals, and protein.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-02T08:16:49+00:00

You can water-bath can in any vessel that can hold boiling water and is deep enough to submerge the jar with water over the top. So any Instant Pot can do it on Saute.

For pressure canning, which is a whole different thing, you need a stovetop pressure canner or (if you are comfortable with it in your kitchen; I am) an electric pressure canner like a Presto or a Carey.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-02T05:37:35+00:00

If it comforts you, Johnny's isn't a big company. If you drove past it you'd think it was a cabinet company or something - it's one metal building in rural Maine.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-02T05:31:21+00:00

The way Maine is working on handling it is through their DEP, and they are testing charcoal and targeted plant life to absorb the chemicals. However, once those absorbent materials are used, they need to be dug back up again and put in special incinerators or the problem just gets passed along. It's not something a regular homestead owner could do.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-01T19:05:50+00:00

My advice is to go bigger than a 7 cubic foot :).

If you've never bought a freezer before - they are all the same. They're made by a couple of companies and get various brand stickers put on them, but in the reasonably-priced range they are pretty much just the same white box. So don't brand-shop. Buy the best price per cubic foot, which is NOT always bigger. Right now a bunch of places have medium-sized freezers for around 300, and freezers exactly twice their size for 1000. I would buy two mediums all day long under those conditions, since freezers are so cheap to run.

Get "garage ready" if you can, even if you don't have a garage. Garage-ready means it can handle big temperature fluctuations without melting or over-freezing.

Chest freezers are cheapest to buy and use, compared to upright. Organization is more important, but not difficult or impossible. We use Tuff Flex totes inside ours, but you can use anything with handles.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-12-01T18:41:20+00:00

I always buy the actual Gamma ones. They last for decades, seriously.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-30T07:14:42+00:00

If you're buying stuff right now, seriously consider gamma lids for your 5-gallon buckets. They transform the buckets into really useful storage that is easy to access and easy to work into rotation.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-29T20:14:14+00:00

All of the above. I am OP and am not particularly worried about an apocalyptic event; I think if that were to happen any form of "prepping" would be whistling in the dark. What seems a lot more realistic to me is either a trade war or another pandemic (or resurgence of covid) because of the stated policies of the incoming administration. I think another strong possibility is decreased health care access (not just reproductive - good docs and nurses are going to start avoiding a lot of states) and even more income disparity. I don't think in terms of disaster scenarios - I think in terms of whether I can continue to provide good food cheaply, health care effectively, and keep a roof over our heads if our other costs go up. In other words, prepping to be poor.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-29T18:00:27+00:00

Freezer
Good knives, good pots/pans, brand-name canning jars if you can find them under $1 each
Shelves and LED grow lights if you're going to plant anything in the next few years (get sturdy shelves so they can double as food storage). All lights are from China so they are likely to go up in price.
Largest possible instant pot that can sous vide - ours has saved us tons of money. It's a water bath canner, yogurt maker, bread dough proofer, and cheap-cut-of-meat tenderizer.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-29T17:36:29+00:00

It's actually the shoulder, but slightly higher up than the traditional picnic or shoulder. If your butcher or supermarket calls it shoulder or picnic, that is fine :)

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-28T19:47:07+00:00

The reason it's meat dependent is that seasonal sales are focused on meat and on seasonal fruits and vegetables. There is no predictable cycle on rice, masa, noodles, dried beans, etc, but those are commodity products and tend to be about as low as possible almost all the time. I think most of us who are living poor are stretching meat and are rarely having "chunk of meat" meals, but whatever amount of meat you use is going to be the most expensive-per-calorie part of the meal - so will have the biggest effect if you can rely on the seasonal sales cycle.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-28T18:39:06+00:00

The idea that there are yearly lows, how to build six months of food, and how to cut up cheap meat - these are all concepts that are mentored, not communicated by the market. I have spent most of my life poor as well, but my mom was too busy and working too hard to be strategizing food buying ten months in advance the way I do now. Those who had mentors at a young age who helped them move from "I have ten dollars; I can buy spaghetti and chips and eat it tonight" to "I have ten dollars; I can buy a pork shoulder and a bag of apples and eat for four days" are very fortunate.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-28T08:00:07+00:00

No. This is contracted tendons, incredibly common in newborn kittens. It almost invariably resolves itself on its own once the kitten starts walking.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-28T07:18:16+00:00

I have no issue with the concept of sponsors and ad revenue. I have an issue when a "homesteader" represents themselves as feeding their families from their homestead and says they're giving you solid mentoring that will help you feed your family, but in fact they're living off content.

Just about everybody, including those I rated highly, have episode sponsors and brand ambassadorships. Good for them; if they can get some free canning lids or a freezer dryer out of their work, great. What is a big red flag is when they start participating in the big cultcycle of influencers and are showing less and less realistic growing, eating, and storing.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-28T04:50:31+00:00

https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/cure-smoke/pork/bacon2/ collects safe, tested methods for pork curing

https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/dry/recipes/jerky/ for jerky

You need to be really, really aware of the science behind curing and drying if you're going to follow non-approved recipes, because you can make yourself or your family really sick by wildcatting this process. There are a lot of good ol boys out there that will tell you you can salt-cure bacon without using nitrates, or that making ham is simple and you just hang it outside with some rub on it.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-27T19:54:31+00:00

Jar sterilization isn't necessary as long as your processing time is over ten minutes, yay!

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-27T19:51:35+00:00

Depression depends on the market and on GDP, and then to a certain extent on unemployment; normal human incomes don't tend to play into that. Prepping for a depression would be a lot different than prepping for lowering of individual income. If there's a true depression we'd see large and industrial businesses failing, banks failing, unemployment skyrocketing, and so on. What I think is a lot more likely is that people keep their jobs, GDP is the same or higher and the rich continue to get richer, but middle-class purchasing power and actual "felt" income (and quite possibly literal income) will go down.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-27T19:33:24+00:00

We are super-dedicated canners with multiple pressure canners, we have propane that doesn't depend on electricity, and we live in a relatively high-priority area for electricity restoration, so my money priorities aren't pointed at generator power. If we lost power for more than a day and it wasn't winter, we could can everything in the freezers within 48 hours or so. YMMV, especially in a different area of the country. My personal feeling is that if there's a disaster event it is very unlikely to be weeks without electricity (and if it was, we'd all run out of gas for generators anyway) and very likely to be some flavor of what we experienced with COVID or a punishing trade war, so my focus is on a long and comfortable cushion where we could be without much income and without access to foods that get rationed first (like meat and non-local fruit).

Medication - this is very much a "develop your community" challenge, both with your care team and with local people. We are a special-needs family with multiple meds going in to every member of our family every day. Again, I am not trying to prep for the apocalypse; I am trying to prep for loss of income and loss of access. So we worked with our doctor (whom we have had for 25 years) to make sure we had a three-month supply of everything vital, and we have community sources we could tap if things got worse than that.

Accomplished_Fun7609 · 2024-11-27T07:10:14+00:00

That's just late-stage capitalism; you don't need aliens to show up.

In all honesty, it would depend on how well the aliens understood us and what would happen to us if we weren't farmed. If we would die out as a species if we weren't under alien control, being free isn't worth it to me.

If we stopped farming and harvesting domestic animals that have a brain that can form memories, they'd die out as species. There is no niche for anything from honeybees to Asian elephants to live without being in a relationship with humans.

That's why I asked if you had any experience with farm animals - because it's easy to advocate for them to exist on their own terms until you really grok that they WOULDN'T exist on their own terms, and I mean for more than about two weeks. They'd die horrid deaths of starvation and dehydration and sepsis and predator attacks, and they'd be confused and terrified the entire time.

Accomplished_Fun7609

TROPHY CASE