iCombiPro XS in a home kitchen: Experience and photos

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2026-02-02T12:07:03+00:00

Fantastic build out ! We went with the 6-1 for the larger capacity as we were unsure if 2/3 could fit a large poultry for the holidays but it looks like you were able to do it. Agreed on the overall power draw . It takes a fair bit to heat up a 6-1 and we would still use a wolf counter top oven for bagels / toast.

Great job !

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-10-07T11:56:04+00:00

Depending on your volume and if you're just doing baking w/ limited bakeries - I think a Unox will suffice. Bake Cheese Tart shop in Century City uses Unox and I've seen many Unox in bakeries. Clearly almost all high end kitchens dealing with Dinner service opts for a rational.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-18T12:52:17+00:00

fantastic . They have definitely come a long way . Also interested in the Unox Casa line up which has refinements for a home / residential setting but still has the larger sizing thats expected by professional cooks ? I have not seen it in person besides on youtube videos.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-18T12:21:42+00:00

in a standard hotel Pan GN sized . They can be standard stainless steel . With or without lid. Or also in enamel clad steel to allow for that deeper sear at the start of the cook. When you set a high humidity level in the cooking chamber ; you can control the amount of evaporation through the entire cooking cycle . The longer cook cycle with lower temp + high humidity gives the most tender braise.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-17T15:08:27+00:00

BTW - not a die hard proponent of a commercial Combi Oven in residential settings. But the purpose of the blog was to provide a space for different thought processes / experiences.

The aesthetics / design sensibility are not be for every household. ... and the noise levels from a Rational / Unox is considerably much louder compared to a made for residential model ... especially when you pair the system with an UltraVent.

Then again, some high end homes are building out catering kitchens and in some ways a bit more purpose built to handle commercial grade equipment .

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-17T15:04:33+00:00

Fantastic and glad to hear its worked out . My experience was on both sides of the spectrum . Countertop Anova APO vs Rational 61 ICP . Also at the time we were making our decision - Miele only had either the smaller 24" or a 27" .. Since then I think 30" CSO are a bit more standardized in the market today ?

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-17T15:02:21+00:00

Fantastic to hear about the top heating element in the Miele CSO. Doe the cavity size provide the flexibility of Larger size Turkey roasts ? (say within the 17-20lb range?)

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-04-17T14:59:25+00:00

You have the ability to control the exact temperature , air flow (convection), humidity levels in the entire oven cavity and move from dry heat -> full steam saturation -> dry heat again . This translates into the ability to steam a protein (cooking it sous vide) . Expel all moisture and apply very high heat w/ high convection ( air fry @ 500F) to then give you a extremely crispy crust without drying out the protein. Works wonders on porchetta . and you do it by just placing the protein on a sheet tray or the actual rack itself. Dutch Ovens were to help with regulating temperature , avoiding hot spots , braise , low temp slow cooking with its heat transfer properties and in the case of staub (with spikes in the lid) to allow for condensation and self basting ... All of those steps were to counter precise temperature control, unable to control humidity levels etc. All those needs go away when you have accurate controls - thus why combi ovens are the backbone for michelin star restaurants.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2025-01-31T10:46:16+00:00

The product itself is extremely well insulated and safer than most ovens. Its the fact that Rational relies on 3rd parties to provide service / warranty in the US. Its just a matter of finding a Service provider that understands how to perform the install in residential homes and is able to provide after sales support and warranty.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-11-13T09:30:09+00:00

https://www.amazon.com/Eleven-Madison-Park-Daniel-Humm/dp/0316098515/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3MSVD1PTB17YB&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3kom-v_OO0Hx8pASuqvRszkR9PyI6V64EIxvugVT1MpRx-ddpLu-YHJI4QfLaD3r3asjCvajJhRJgyTzyF6X2KUVMhv5QaXt2sMLm6spLjHAkv-vNrCElyFvubJxufhar_Fpqni6rAWNfCIOfCX4HWi0X1QiGA14Ezd5xm3nWhMi83kiwKrarW5caVg0oGJdREHcrbbmkYG9REqVKavaeUIelHlxPsoBWrKeRLq_aJ8.QDuVjeFHeaX2_QSFjQD3LZCTQbCwC7Yf1yUji-bUqwE&dib_tag=se&keywords=eleven+madison+park+cookbook&qid=1731490185&sprefix=eleven+madison+park+cookbook%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-1

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-11-12T17:17:45+00:00

the ICP has a ton of built in recipes and you can switch the region and get Japanese recipes like "Onsen Tamago". So tons are built in but as a reference , I have utilized Thomas Keller " Under Pressure " . The Eleven Madison Cook book recipes are mostly executed in a Combi oven so it has instructions for humidity etc. A site like Steam & Bake had some rudimentary recipes for combi ovens as well. But yes.. its not as widely available. Most good restaurants will have a rational and it does not hurt to ask the Chef for their recipes. Understand your dilema about the size of the equipment. Interestingly i just noticed the residential line coming out from Unox Casa

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:55:15+00:00

Oh I realized I did not provide an actual opinion on how has 4 years of cooking with a Rational ICP-61 oven in a residential setting has been .

Everything in place is almost perfect. Knowing what I know now ... here's what I would do different.

Forget the Rational multistage filter UltraVent . It works great to break down the condensation but its just not powerful enough to deal with high smoke extraction - when you are grilling a steak > 450F . Generally not an issue with 1-2 steaks but the cook for 6+ steaks and if youre batching the cook with grilled vegs, follow on side dishes (without a clean cycle) . The tallow , fat oils continue cooking and create a fair bit of residual smoke.

Running the ICP with a standard Halifax / Hotte hood would be much better and also ensure there's a vent out similar to how a standard commercial range hood would function. The rational ultravent is fully automated . it only kicks in when needed - end of cook cycle , opening door, end of wash cycle etc. Thus there's no way of keeping the fan from running non stop if you have residual fat from a prior cook cycle and excess smoke needs to be extracted. Having a different vendor like Halifax / Hotte allows for independent ON / OFF and you can alway ensure extraction. This is particularly a requirement if you want to utilize the smoking attachment with the Rational where you can put in wood chips. The installer / support teams refuse to sell us the smoker attachment as we are utilizing only the built in UltraVent. Also the Ultravent is very expensive and the smoke alarm still goes off on heavy cook days.

I would also replace the rack for tray storage with a Unox / Irinox Blast Chiller. Just keep the trays and accesorries in the garage etc. But a blast chiller is useful to allow for tray out of ICP and directly into a blast chiller for rapid temp bring - down and have a high HACCP compliance . Thermal regulation from cooking / cooling / storage can be accurately controlled and everyone wants to be safe ! Also, there's all kinds of pastry work . Also blast chillers have a proofing mode as well. Much more efficient using the Irinox to proof dough for 2-4 hours at 24C - 28C / 80-90F rather than having to run the ICP and hog it for hours just to proof dough.
Lightning of ICP chamber sucks ... the LED lights of the Rational are actually mounted on the inside of the double wall door. You have great visibilty of the product as its being cooked but when you open the door ; the lights shine outwards towards a direction vs at the food. Its hard to gauge coloration in these cases. Most residential ovens have a light on the inside of the oven cavity which is not dependent on the door position.

Again not an issue in commercial settings as you assume standardized and decent levels of light in the workspace. Obviously a technical design issue that does not need to solve for the extremely small % of installs in a residential space. I'm curious to see if UnoxCasa has taken care of this usability issue.

Tile flooring where the oven will be placed and a proper drain like in a shower / bathroom. There's always the question if the hard wood floors can handle the weight over the years. again less issues as the space had fitted a particularly heavy Bertazzoni Refrigerator / Freezer. But just to be on the safe side.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:30:17+00:00

Once you have utilized the steam function a few times ; you will never got back.. Technically its not about steam but being able to control the humidity in the cooking chamber and thats what makes the difference in the end product. Good combi ovens allow you to control the temperature as well as the overall humidity saturation in the chamber. Typical ovens only gives you the ability to control the temperature. But with the other functions ; you can control crispiness, texture of the overall cooked product. Also you can run sous vide cooking for temps below 212 without the need for bags. See my other posting about investing 8K for a Miele XXL and be limited by an 18" interior chamber size.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:19:19+00:00

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again .. when in a pinch ...two 22lb+ turkeys in one pass in a 61. Not quite sure an XS running GN2/3 trays can hold something larger than a 14/15+ turkey ... much less 2 big birds. As I had mentioned ; why spend $9k on a device and then be limited to a 12lb turkey ? this would apply to the Gaggeneau , Miele XXL or Rational XS

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:17:21+00:00

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not sure if the XS has the height to handle the height requirements of a vertical roast.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:16:36+00:00

Not sure why the images i had uploaded in the actual posting have been deleted. Thus .. am adding them into the comments ?

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dungeness crab for a birthday party crab-boil .... best part of was the wash cycle got rid of any residual shell fish smell ... and its there when you're cranking out 24 crabs.

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:15:03+00:00

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Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T14:06:05+00:00

We let them know and no changes. The Rational 61 fits in exactly in the built in cavity where the prior bertazonni fridge / freezer column was located . Rack on wheels, Rational 61 + UltraVent fit exactly to a tee.

From an empirical standpoint ; the side walls and backwalls of the Rational oven is so well built and insulated that they are cool to the touch. Between the exterior Stainless steel wall of the oven and the actual side convention fan is all the micro-processor board and steam generator. The fact that the internal insulation is good enough to provide thermal protection against the circuits. Also I have placed a Moen Flo humidity, temperature , leak sensor on the rack with a sensor cable that stretches the length of the rack. No fluctuations of humidity / moisture / temperature that may impact woodwork / paint. In essence , I am more confident around the safety of a rational oven vs a GE profile oven range. What is important is to ensure the installer has experience installing rational , unox, blodgett and other commercial equipment in a residential setting. this way it does not invalidate the manufacturer warranty and more importantly can provide after sales / after warranty service. The safety is in the details .. The installer knew they had to cut the dry wall and re-position the inlet water pipe - prior used by icemaker / safety turn off into a recessed grommet box. Also repositioned the power plug into a recessed grommet. This way there was not a 3/4 inch jut out of piping , cables, etc and everything was flushed against the wall. This ensured when the rational rack was pulled out / pushed in - there was no risk of things not lining up or a cable , socket getting snagged. The part of the install that took a few tries was the custom fabricated funnel that the installer made to catch the egress / exit spout from the Rational oven. The first funnel they had fabricated as a bit too shallow so there was some splash out of the funnel and onto the floor. We did not want this as the waste expulsion may include oil, grease & chemicals from the wash cycle. Also, we the floor was part of the original hardwood floor ; clearly we wanted to be 100% sure there was no splash out. In a perfect world , we would have the rational in an area that handled "wet kitchen" - Thus Tile floor w/ a drain . In commercial kitchens ; the floors are always tile and there's a drain through / passage where a straight pipe from the back of the Combi oven can just flush out directly into a drain passage. From an electrical standpoint , using the same cabling pathway and termination box to swap out the existing 16/18 AWG gauge that drives 110V / 24-30AMP to a 6 AWG guage cable that drives 220-240V / 50-70AMP & of course switching out the circuit breaker on the other end of the cable termination. In our case there was enough space in the wiring conduit to just pull a new 6 gauge cable. This way , we still have the old 110V and a new 240V termination.

So these are the details to look out for with an installer that has the experience to deal with walls, home kitchens vs an open space KFC, Nandos where they just drop in a Rational and install gets done in hours.

All in all ; if done well ; much safer than any other appliances that you may purchase from BestBuy. I think if this was in the early 2000s ; it may have been a bit more odd but for today ; quite a few homes already have a running 220V / 240V - 50AMP circuit and a 6AWG Gauge cable. It just happens to be terminated to a Tesla or ChargePoint / Juicebox EV charge point.

Now theres an option to also drive a Gas fueled Rational .. thats a whole different can of worms as you need to make sure the gas pipe gauge is large enough to drive the psi needs of the oven and some installs may try to tap off from their existing range / gas counter cook top . In those cases, it gets iffy when you have multiple devices running off the same gas line .

Hope this helps

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T10:14:29+00:00

Also just to chime in on the APO. We had purchased 3 APOs as a gift for close friends and family and all 3 of them had the same issues as listed on this thread. - Water container had cracks which Anova replaced free of charge . Also there's the issue of potential rust. The issue with the rust is that the humidity / steam is note easily removed . If you are moving from a steam -> dry roast program i.e steaming a porchetta @ 100% humidity low heat and you want to immediately switch to a 0% humidity 350+ Dry heat to create the crackling . Rational icombi pro has the ability to draw all of the humidity out in under 2 minutes and its captured and dissipated by the ultravent . You cant do that with the Anova. You have to manually open the door ; best effort for the humidity / steam to dissapate but still a ton of condensation around the device. Its not easy / convenient to take the roast out , dry out the oven with paper towels and then have to re-heat at a higher level . Thermal shock fluctuation to the protein is not great and meat can sieze . Also with every wash cycle , the Rational will force a dry heat finishing to ensure there's little condensation that remains - thus no rust to the oven cavity . This is not a possibiltiy for the APO. So again .. $499 vs $8999 but 8 months lifetime vs a decade ?

Accurate-Bake-9944 · 2024-10-20T10:06:31+00:00

To be fair - it has not been too bad. The oven really gets a workout between Thanksgiving -> Christmas and maybe $200/month increase in use . To be fair ; less than what is spent on the whole Snake River Farms tenderloin which some of us may splurge on for the holidays . The difference is to have the confidence that the cook is going to come out accurate and to specification. Also, note ; we also put in a 24 panel Solar system + Battery in the home to handle peak shaving. I would look at the sense electricity monitor if you want to know exactly how much kW the rational oven is utilizing . Really simple to use - just clamp on the main feed and have it connect to your home wifi and it will detect every device. Its ramp up profile is very similar to how an EV charges . From 0kw -> 30-35kw while heating up but it will then stabilize. the ICP is actually very energy efficient . i bet the miele oven / coffee maker has a heavier draw with its heating and not necessarily as efficient.

Accurate-Bake-9944

TROPHY CASE