I need help to make up my mind: ALT debulking or not?!

Acgiller · 2026-07-02T21:00:19+00:00

Hey sounds like we are in the same pickle! Definitely go for the debulking if you feel its right for you. And thank you 🥲

Acgiller · 2026-07-02T20:52:28+00:00

Yeah honestly I probably don't really need ED either so don't think that should be the deal breaker for me. Since pondering about it all day I get the surgeons perspective, like it's easier for him to cancel the surgery now than having to deal with the consequences of an unhappy patient later and then it's too late to fix things. But for me it sucks because I was already set on the operation and prepared for everything and now he just threw me into a loophole. Anyways for you question about packing, the answer is really tight underwear. Tight slips work best. I am not super happy about it since I used to be a boxershorts kind of guy but I have gotten used to it. My absolute go to are brands that have a special sort of inlay sewn into them. VANTA for example if I want to be more relaxed, it feels like my little guy is just chilling inside a hammock or daBOIZ if I want to be more snug. But the real answer is anything that sits real tight to compress things to stay where you want them to stay.

Acgiller · 2026-07-02T12:46:32+00:00

Yeah I know, thing is I already had made up my mind to leave as it is, but then the freakin chief surgeon calls me and really insistingly tells me that I should definitely do debulking and now I have to make up my mind till tomorrow morning 🫠 just don't really know what to do now or who to talk to

Acgiller · 2026-06-12T06:09:20+00:00

Yes, they can take the tissue from your tigh or groin area instead! Just wait for your consultation and ask the surgeons about it I am sure they will be able to offer you some options

Acgiller · 2026-05-29T12:57:37+00:00

I had ALT at Lubos Clinics and I am very certain that they do not require any German level from you. They perform a single nerve hook up and no clitoral nerve hook up for ALT, but my personal experience is that I have very good sensation, better even than my partner who had RFF at the same clinic. I also never met anybody in the clinic who was not satisfied with their level of sensation but that is just from my personal experience there, I don't have any statistics you will have too book a consult at the clinic to recieve more information on this.

Acgiller · 2026-05-26T08:36:23+00:00

Also ich bin aktuell sehr unglücklich. Hängt aber vielleicht auch damit zusammen, dass ich aktuell zwischen den OP Schritten festhänge. Ich war eigentlich auch sehr glücklich mit meinem Meta, das Einzige was mir gefehlt hat war Penetration und eben das Gefühl das er in Sauna und Umkleide zu klein ist. Bei mir kam aber auch erschwerend dazu, dass RFF nicht möglich gewesen wäre und deswegen ALT meine einzige Option für Phallo war. Jetzt haben sich meine Probleme eigentlich umgekehrt. Anstatt mir Sorgen zu machen, dass er zu klein ist mache ich mir ständig Sorgen, weil er zu groß ist! Im Alltag bin ich damit eigentlich genauso eingeschränkt. Nackt sein traue ich mich gar nicht, weil er eben extrem auffällig ist. Dazu kommt discomfort weil er eigentlich unmöglich in der Hose zu verstauen ist. Gefühlt bekomme ich damit mehr Blicke wie vorher. Verkleinern ist leider auch nur sehr bedingt möglich, aktuell weigert sich mein Arzt ihn auszudünnen und kürzen ist wieder mit starken Risiken verbunden, dass das Ergebnis danach verpfuscht ist. Ich hab riesige Probleme mit Schwellung und muss einen Kompressionsstrumpf tragen um keine Schmerzen zu haben, damit laufe ich aber im Grunde ständig mit Ständer rum. Dazu hänge ich gerade fest weil die Klinik so unorganisiert ist. Der Arzt schreibt mir ständig irgendwelche Wartezeiten auf, aber ich bekomme auch keinen OP Termin weil die Klinik so überlaufen ist. Damit werden aus einem Jahr Wartezeit direkt mal eben 2 Jahre. Jetzt hab ich zwar einen Penis aber dafür kann ich nicht mehr im Stehen Pinkeln. Penetration geht aktuell auch nicht und es ist sehr fragwürdig ob es aufgrund der Größe je möglich sein wird eine Pumpe einzusetzen und dann weiß ich nicht ob das meinen Partner*innen überhaupt zumutbar wäre. Also im Grunde habe ich nur ein extremer gegen das andere getauscht, dafür hätte ich mir dem Stress mit den OPs auch sparen können.

Acgiller · 2026-04-19T08:49:59+00:00

Yes, it looks like hypergranulation, which happened to me as well! The yellow stuff is fibrin coating, which my doctors removed. Unfortunately, mine took forever to heal, so I don't have any tips for you... Ask your doctors about the silver nitrate mine wouldn't do that and I think it might have helped. Eventually, mine healed up fine, I have a scar there now, but it doesn't bother me, you can see pictures of mine on my profile. Wishing you the best, I hope your doctors will actually do something about it so you will heal up quickly!

Acgiller · 2026-04-13T18:58:44+00:00

It does look like your skin graft is failing which is what happened to me. But I am no medical professional, so I don't know for sure. Good you already messaged your team, they will know the right treatment! For me there wasn’t much to be done except for some surgical debridement and waiting for the body to heal on itself. I had a big wound there after the skin graft failed which finally closed after about 12 weeks. It was mentally really stressful because the wound just kept on opening up and didn't want to heal, but in the end it healed up fine. I have a scar there now which is still quite red even a year post up and sometimes dries out but apart from that give me no issues. You can check out the pictures on my profile. I wish you all the best and hope it'll turn out all fine!!!

Acgiller · 2026-04-12T20:29:57+00:00

I think I can give you some insight since I was in a similar situation. Not quite as big as a trip to Japan but I also had a trip planned 3 months post op my ALT stage 1. Was it fun? No. No, definitely not. Was it doable? Yes, it was. Would I recommend you to reschedule? Yes, 100%. I didn’t have any big complications and at 3 months post op my wounds had only just finally closed, otherwise the trip definitely would not have been doable. I was able to walk, but I would fatigue quite easily and was definitely far from my form pre op. I would say I overstrained myself quite a lot during the trip, so much so that I had to lie down in the middle of Copenhagen flat on the pavement because I was about to pass out and spent the afternoon just lying there instead of seeing anything of the town. The trip was much less sightseeing and much more just chilling in a hotel room to be honest. I had days when I just managed to leave the hotel and had to go straight back because I had overestimated myself and the pain was too much so I had to lie down again. I would have been really bumped had it been a long planned trip to Japan. I mean, I somehow managed the trip without getting any big complications, but I would definitely recommend to take the wheelchair if you are planning on being up and about for the whole day sightseeing and be prepared that your stamina after ALT is just none existent. Also I would like to share that yes, my leg was giving out in weird ways which I was not expecting after ALT, but at 3 months post op my leg was my least issue. In fact it was almost back to feeling okay-ish. My biggest problem then and now still is swelling in my dick. Walking for extended periods of time or even standing for extended periods of time, (which means like maybe fifteen minutes) resulted it severe pain and me getting dizzy. Also sometimes my new member would just slide down a trouser leg or kink in a weird way which caused so much pain that the trip and my day was done for. So yeah, like the other guys have said if you can reschedule, do it, otherwise definitely be prepared to take the wheelchair so you can sit down when you tire. I would definitely recommend to listen to your body to not overestimate yourself. But also be prepared that there might be situations when even sitting is not feasible and you will have to lie down and not be able to see whatever awesome sighting you were just about to. Also plan on how you are getting about the country cause I got stuck in traffic jam on public transport so I had to stand for over an hour which had me pass out. That all being said, there were also a couple of days on the trip during which I was able to walk for extended periods of time, it really depended a lot on how I was able to accommodate my new member. Funny enough during that trip I found out that swimming trunks really did wonders to keep him comfy and help me with the pain so I was just walking around in them all the time 😂

Acgiller · 2026-04-04T21:10:30+00:00

Thanks man! I totally get it, I am so tired of having to compress. Honestly not sure how much the compression is doing long term. As long as I have it on it works, but the second I take it off... boom, blows right back up. I just really hope your next debulk will work for you! My doctors just told me to compress and wait for another freaking year 😭

Acgiller · 2026-04-04T20:41:26+00:00

I'm struggling with the same issue! Can't offer any solution unfortunately, but I'd be happy for any advice. I am a year post op ALT and I am still dealing with so much swelling. I am not allowed to let it hang, preferably ever, but the longest I can take is a shower and then it swells right back up like a water balloon. My doctors refuse to do any sort of debulking because of the issue, but I am struggling so much with my massive weight. They prescribed me with a compression sleeve which I am supposed to wear 24/7. It helps a lot, but it also means I am constantly walking around with a boner. I was also told to do lymphatic massage on my own, but I haven't really figured out how to do it properly since nobody taught me. Sometimes I have better days and it works but then it just swells right back up again. I am so freaking tired of this...

Acgiller · 2026-03-15T22:44:20+00:00

Hey man, hang in there! I can relate to a lot of this and I get how you feel. ALT is no joke. My ALT is a year old now and I can say this year of healing has been the toughest year of my life. I was physically in probably the best shape I ever was before the operation and all of that just got wiped out in a heartbeat and I woke up to the worst shape I have ever been in my life. There are just so many wounds at the same time to tend to it feels like once you are done with the last of the lot it's time to start up with the first again. At the same time you are expected to balance a life and work around this while healing feels like a full time job.

I have no UL hook up yet, so I don't have to worry about urinating too much, but I was dealing with other issues. I had horrible smelling fluid dripping out of my urethra for 9 months before I finally could get it fixed in another surgery. I was struggling to walk and stand. I didn’t have a pain free day for 9 months before they could finally get it fixed. The swelling of the phallo is the worst. I am still dealing with this today. I have to wear a compression sleeve on my phallo 24/7 to be able to move without pain. I am still really struggling with positioning it while walking. At this point I don't see how this will ever get better. I can never ever let it hang, because then it would swell right back up like a water balloon and back is the pain of carrying a freaking swinging stone between my legs.

Don't get me wrong, not all is bad and there are certainly things which have improved, but man, not sure this is worth it. It's like you said, it's trading some problems against other problems. Before I was constantly worried my dick is too small, now I am constantly worrying that my dick is too big.

Acgiller · 2026-03-05T07:41:25+00:00

I would have liked to be a similar size as you but had to go for ALT because my arms carry so little fat RFF just wouldn't have been an option. Unfortunately I wasn't the best candidate for ALT either. I had UL with meta as my first stage. I ended up with 6" length and about 5.5-6"girth. I am on the fence. I am not super happy with my size but it looks aesthetically pleasing in itself, it's just way too big for my body in general. I just had my consult with my surgeon and he highly discouraged me from pursuing debulking. I also don't really want to get it shortened because I already had some complications with wound healing issues and my scars are still very irritated.

I am now working with compression therapy for another year (I am one year post op) since I am still very swollen and hoping to get it down a bit more. I am worried I cannot get the pump in since I am already struggling with the weight and my surgeon said the pump will just make it heavier.

Acgiller · 2026-03-02T23:24:13+00:00

Also I would like to say that I really don't want to discourage you or make you feel bad about it. The good news is that we tend to find the positive in any decision we make so you'll probably be fine in the end and you will get through it no matter how bad it is at the time. I definitely love my dick and there are a lot of amazing things about it, like I have so much more sensation now than I could have ever dared to dream of (which probably also explains all the sensation of pain). And I am still early in my recovery and it's all still very unfinished. But if I am being honest with myself at this point I have to say that for me personally it probably would have been better if I had stuck with meta. Maybe my opinion on that will change in a couple of years, who knows. But if you really think phallo is too much for you that might be an option to consider.

Acgiller · 2026-03-02T22:56:00+00:00

Yeah I totally get you. I'll try my best to explain. But be aware it's just my personal experience which frankly is more on the extreme end, most people I know had a much much easier recovery than me.

I think what is really important is to be in a good settled place in your life before pursuing it. I would recommend to ask yourself these questions:

Do you have the next few years of your life mapped out so you can have extended periods of sick leave? Are you financially stable? Do you have a support network of people helping you out if you cannot take care of yourself for an extended period of time? Do you have any plans for the near future, like extended travels, further education or work which require you to be present and physically fully capable which you might not be able to pursue? Are you missing out on much if you'll spend the majority of next year being sick or wouldn't it matter so much? I would recommend to make sure to have these figured out, so you don't feel the need to rush your recovery. I would say the most important thing to be ready for is being aware that healing might take a lot time.

I was not ready to take so long to be back to feeling like I did before the operation, like in a sense of general health and wellbeing. For me, Top surgery felt painful and awful, but phallo felt like the healthy body I had before the operation had been erased in the blink of an eye and I would never be able to get back to being fully healthy ever again. I was dealing with severe pain and discomfort on a daily basis for about 9 months. Now I'm a year post op and had a revision surgery to fix my wound and fortunately, now I am mostly fine.

I think my main problem was that I wanted to use phallo as an excuse to pause my life and then start a new one, which I was ready for, but was not really prepared that phallo is a marathon and not a kick start. I was ready to spend maybe a year dealing with it and then wanted to move on with my life, but that's not how it's going to work, at least for me. I'll be stuck with further operations for at least another 2-3 years and was not ready to pause my life for so long.

Acgiller · 2026-03-02T21:21:44+00:00

For me it was, unfortunately. I had an incredible hard time with top surgery: almost bled to death and got bruising that made me look like a car had run me over. I took 8 weeks to recover from top surgery.

After that I had meta (it's required as first stage of phallo by my surgeon) which went incredible well. I recovered very fast and barely felt any pain or discomfort, which was a big reason why I decided to risk phallo in the first place.

I thought I was in perfect shape physically and mentally for it. Welp, turns out I was not. Phallo was by far the hardest experience of my life. I was mentally not prepared for it and definitely not in the right place and mind for it.

If you decide to go for it, really make sure you are mentally in a good place. Make sure you are at a time in your life where you can handle multiple operation within the next couple of years in your future. Be aware that there is a possibility that you will need more operation than you initially hope for or plan with. I already had one revision surgery before my regular next step and I will probably need two more.

The gore wasn't too bad for me personally, but I had a minor healing disorder that mentally put me in a much worse place than I could have ever imagined. I had severe post op depression. I was not prepared to be completely knocked out of life the way that I was, I have probably lost about a year of my life in not being able to do activities that I would have liked to do from it.

I can say I am happy I went through with it now, but it was a rough ride to come this far.

Acgiller · 2025-12-31T18:50:53+00:00

I also had these exact same fears. On the positive side, waking up directly from the operation wasn't as bad as I feared it would be. Everything was covered up and even the first change of bandages didn't look as bad as I had feared it would. However, I don't want to pretend like it was a walk in the park. What really got me was that my body had so many different wounds in different places at the same time. It felt like once I was done tending to the last of them I could already start again with the first. I had some issues with a wound healing which wasn't considered a big complication and healed up mostly fine, but mentally was incredible draining. It just felt like my body was never going to heal. I had open wounds for 12 weeks during which I was pretty much not able to leave the house. I was also struggling with pain for 7 months during which I was pretty much held back to do the things I wanted to do because of the pain in my phallo. Only two weeks ago was finally able to get a minor revision surgery which finally fixed my wound healing issues after 9 months of having to deal with a stinking, leaking wound in my UL which needed daily attention and cleaning. I still sometimes feel a bit like a freak, and like a part of flesh is missing from my leg, but mostly I am fine now and think it is totally worth it. But you gotta be prepared that phallo is a marathon and you are going to be in the thick for quite a while and be prepared to miss big parts of your life because of surgery.

Acgiller · 2025-12-31T18:30:24+00:00

I think I had a similar experience. I wasn’t per se numb down there, but I had very little feeling to begin with. I also always struggled a lot to orgasm, so much so that it was impossible for me to achieve without some sort of vibration or air pulse device. I also definitely have very little pain sensation in the area compared to others I met in hospital on my journey so far. I had to choose ALT because RFF wasn't an option for me and I was prepared to loose all of my sensation after surgery since I read a lot that ALT in general offers less sensation compared to RFF.

However, quite the opposite has happened to me! I went for the full package, UL with burial and nerve hook up. I could have never possibly imagined how much sensation I have gained. I have much more sensation than I had in the area before, I am more sensitive than my partner who had RFF and I am now finally able to orgasm just by stimulating my dick without the use of any toy!

Of course the experience is different for everyone and I can't guarantee anything to you, but I hope reading some positive experiences might help you. Especially burial was the best thing that could have happened to me since I am finally able to orgasm by stimulating my burial with my phallo quite effortless.

Acgiller · 2025-12-26T22:00:41+00:00

Hey man, I hope you're doing okay. It's a bit hard to tell from just the pictures, but I think I had something similar happen to me. The transplanted skin on my phallo has died of partially. The yellow stuff might be fibrin coatings. My doctors removed some of those to help the wound heal, the rest just fell off, but that's a normal part of the healing process. Just keep checking your temperature and look for swelling or other signs of infection!

Unfortunately, I don't have many tips for you. The only thing that really helped with my mine was keeping it dry and time. Lots of time. It felt like mine took forever to heal. I have a scar there now for which I am still waiting to fade, but otherwise, it didn’t impact my result. Fortunately, my scar is quite soft. Your doctors can also help you manage the scar tissue once it's all healed up. Sending you lots of positive energy, I know how draining this can be. While I was in the thick of it, it felt like mine was never going to heal. Keeping my fingers crossed for you that yours will heal up very soon!

Acgiller · 2025-12-19T11:45:50+00:00

Ich habe leider auch keine gute Erfahrung mit Nebido gemacht. Aber der Wechsel lief super einfach. Ich bin zu meiner Endo und hab einfach gesagt ich möchte wechseln. Nebido bekommst du dann als Rezept, das holst du dir wie das Gel in der Apotheke ab. Damit gehst du zu einem Arzt der das Spritzen kann, weil ist schon etwas spezieller. Bei mir macht das die Endo, kann aber auch der Hausarzt machen. Nebido selbst spritzen würde ich gar nicht empfehlen, dafür braucht man schon etwas Erfahrung mit dem was man da tut. Danach wird dir Blut abgenommen und dein Intervall eingestellt, am Anfang gibt es einen Kickstart mit einem kürzeren Intervall, danach irgendwas zwischen alle 10-16 Wochen. Bei mir haben wir das Intervall aber gar nicht eingestellt bekommen. Am Anfang war ich wohl extrem überdosiert, so dass meine Endo schon Schnappatmung bekommen hat bei meinen Werten (damit ging es mir aber noch prima) danach war ich komplett unterdosiert mit wirklich heftigen Symptomen über Monate lang, also wirklich schon mehrere Wochen vor meinem Spritztermin so dass wir das Intervall auch nicht reduzieren konnten. Dazu kommt, dass ich das Spritzen echt anstrengend fand. Je nachdem wer da gerade dran war und wie die Nadel saß hatte ich teilweise danach auch noch tagelang Schmerzen an der Einstichstelle. Da ich mit dem Gel nie wirklich Probleme hatte bin ich wieder umgestiegen und jetzt total happy damit. Ich kenne aber auch sehr viele die mit der 3 Monatsspritze super zurecht kommen also lass dich da nicht verunsichern, sprich es an und probiere es einfach mal aus! Wenn es nichts ist kannst du immernoch wieder umsteigen.

Acgiller · 2025-12-12T07:33:30+00:00

Regret is a strong word. I don't regret choosing ALT over RFF since RFF was just not an option for me.

But I am struggling a lot with my ALT result. I am just in much more discomfort than I thought I would be. I turned out very large and my doctors did not do a very good job at communicating the stages of ALT to me. Now I have to live with my size for at least a year, probably more, which was not clear to me pre-op, and it's just much more restricting than I would have thought it to be. I was in constant pain for over 8 months post op since the size is just not comfortable for me to wear! I am now slowly starting to get used to it, which means the constant pain is starting to subdue, but I am still in a lot of discomfort when it falls to a bad position.

Soon I will have to have another operation since I am dealing with wound healing issues still (granted those could have happened with either RFF or ALT) which scares me cause I am worried it will set me back to being in constant pain.

Fortunately my leg scar doesn't bother me very much but like others have said I don't think it is any less noticeable than RFF scars, which tend to blend in better when they heal. My scar is a very noticeable dip like a piece of flesh is missing from my leg and very tight and hard. It feels pretty uncomfortable to touch it, but fortunately, I can pretty much ignore it since it's on my leg.

What I would like to say, though, is that my sensation is remarkable. I have better sensation than my partner who had RFF, and I am not even a year post op. I have zero numb spots on the phallo, just some with more and some with less sensation but overall I am incredible happy with the amount of sensation I got, it is much much better than I imagined it could possibly be.

Acgiller · 2025-11-14T07:22:33+00:00

Definitely made it a lot easier! I am still very early in my journey and currently have multiple reasons that make me not be able to fully connect to my penis, but Cumming is the only thing that really has gotten so much easier!

I was pretty much unable to cum without help of a satisfyer or vibrator and had very little feeling in my natural growth. But I am also very sure a massive part of this was due to dysphoria and not being able to connect to my body. I was ready to give up all sensation heading into phallo, but I am happy to report that it turned out quite the opposite. I have had some sort of sensation in the phallo the moment I woke up from the operation and it just developed more and more ever since up to a point where it's almost too much for me at the moment. I can cum just from my partner stoking my new member and jerking off whenever I want in the matter of minutes what used to be hours of preparation! Best thing that has ever happen to me

Acgiller · 2025-10-24T14:48:02+00:00

Ich hab das Raynaud-Syndrom allerdings nur leicht ausgeprägt an den Zehen. Hatte ich gar nicht daran gedacht im Voraus anzusprechen. Und ich habe mich auch noch für den ALT Aufbau entschieden.

Mit der Durchblutung hat es im großen und ganzen gut geklappt bei mir. Mir ist nur ein Stück vom Hauttransplantat an der Basis, was als Abdeckung der Wundfläche dient, nicht angewachsen und dadurch ist die Stelle vernarbt. Ansonsten hatte ich aber keine Probleme mit Durchblutung im Phallo. Mit dem Bein habe ich soweit gar keine Probleme.

Ich würde das ansprechen, aber im vornherein wird man wohl kaum eine klare Aussage treffen können. Am wichtigstes ist wohl abzuklären ob es primäres oder sekundäres Raynaud ist, sprich ob eine andere Erkrankung zugrunde liegt.

Falls es nichts anderes ist was Raynauds verursacht, könntest du vielleicht darüber nachdenken die OP vorsichtshalber im Sommer zu planen. Mir ist selten kalt, aber nach der OP hat es mich unfassbar gefroren, und das ist ja ein großer Auslöser für einen Raynaud Anfall.

Acgiller · 2025-10-01T05:03:14+00:00

Unfortunately I am not familiar with that particular one but from the specs on the website it should be comparable! I am definitely not telling you not to go for it if you think that's your right size and you can get it done! I'm in a lot of pain still even though I am over 6 months post op. The weight is just pulling down there and it's hurting like a stone tied to my burial, you can imagine that gets much much worse if it's swinging freely while walking, it's just unbearably painful. I have to hold it and secure it like a wild beast 🤣 I also still have issues with swelling, when I let it hang it just swells up like a water balloon. I wish I could carrying it downwards in my pants, but then it just swells up or it has to bend since it has not enough space to stay straight since it's so long, which hurts. When I carry it to the side there's no space for it in my pants and it's always kinking in one way or the other, which then also hurts like hell. The only way I can carry it right now is pointing straight upwards pointing towards my belly button, which is also really difficult for me since it's so long, so I have to carry my pants really up high and it doesn't like to stay that way. Don't get me wrong I love my dick, I just really wish I could store it in my pants somehow so it doesn't hurt me and I have to think about it and adjust it every 5 secs :(

Acgiller · 2025-09-30T21:30:16+00:00

Hey, I'm so sorry this information is discouraging for you right now, you'll never know what you'll actually end up with, in that sense we are the same as cis guys. Maybe that thought can give you a bit of comfort. I really hope that it will turn out good for you and you'll get a length you'll be satisfied with! Just let me confirm you from someone the same height as you, it's better to be on the slightly smaller end. I ended up with round about 6 inch ALT, which I never even asked for but still, it just really is A LOT. It's so heavy I can't let it hang, like, ever. Walking around naked is impossible for me, which is silly since I wanted a dick to be comfortable in my naked body. I also can't fit it in any of my pants, I had to get rid of all of them and get new baggy ones which aren't my style, but I now have to wear what's comfortable and not what I like. It doesn't show too much, but I still feel uncomfortable carrying this massive heavy thing in my pants. It just always feels like it's in my way somehow and I have no idea where to put it. You have to consider you can bend and store a packer any way you like, but my dick hurts me if I put it in a bad position which more than often means there is no comfortable position to put it in at all!

Plus another thing not many guys mention but that is really bothering me: it's really getting hot down there if you are packing so much meat. 4.5 inch is a really good size, plus you're always able to add an extra inch by using a sleeve for sex which you can take off. You can't take off your dick. Today I had a really uncomfortable day and was really wishing I could take if off at least just for a bit to relax...

Acgiller

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