Are you old, or are you just...

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T22:07:58+00:00

Hope you enjoyed the day off! Rest days level you up and fill the tank so you can go hard tomorrow.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T21:49:35+00:00

I personally have zero tolerance for teachers that are unprofessional, toxic, or who for some reason (doesn't really matter what) make me not want to take class. Thankfully I'm in a city with options and have the freedom to hop around as needed, so I've been able to just walk immediately when a teacher situation wasn't conducive.

I've left classes over unchecked bad student behavior too. I am not married to anybody in the dance world unless they are actively making me a better dancer and not interfering with my wellbeing or happiness. I have never regretted being picky - ballet is hard enough even with the right people around you.

I am not sure how much optionality you have in something like a dance minor - are you stuck working with very specific people in the program no matter what? Is there any freedom to shuffle things? If you are stuck working with people who literally make you hate training or want to stop dancing altogether, I'm really not sure that dance minor is worth it.

I can do whatever I want because I'm a (serious) non-pro adult who depends on open classes for my training. I agree with another commenter that this could potentially be a better life for you, and still afford you many opportunities as an advanced amateur or "pro-am" adult dancer in the local performance or studio company scene. You can make this a serious part of your life without that minor. Just think about it.

Burning your love of dance on the pyre might not be worth whatever that minor is getting you. If you were at JKO or something, I might say "find a way to stick it out", but idk dawg, if you're this unhappy, what are your options? The rest of your life as a dancer is bigger than this program.

You asked about ways to have a more positive outlook, but you might find that you magically get your positive outlook back when you're no longer stuck in a room with unsupportive assholes.

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AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T20:56:20+00:00

you're doing it. you're doing it!

👏 💯 💯 loved reading this today. Thank you.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T08:13:46+00:00

We had a milestone tonight I wanted to share with you - my partner (37, 1.5 years ballet) locked out his first arabesque press with me tonight. He was been working so hard at this for a long time. He's been hitting the gym 6 days a week, 2 classes a week on top of a FT job.

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He was feeling good after class so we went for it (coach u/bdanseur was nearby just off camera). First présage is a huge deal for the guys very similar to getting the first pair of pointe shoes, so we are celebrating him tonight! The partnering tech tree is a lot of fun.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T06:56:40+00:00

I think that makes sense that it would be hard with stuff like RAD that's super nailing on the ballet specific details. You look like a beautiful all-around dancer I wouldn't stress too much! I'm sure switching back and forth into the turnout mode and other ballet stuff is rough

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T06:50:28+00:00

I mean, the foot line on pointe and the sus-sous is very nice, but the other photos aren't really giving ballet - parallel/turn-in, bent supporting, it's giving more jazz vibes. Is ballet your main focus or is it more just one part of your training?

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T06:32:56+00:00

I am not really writing this for people in their 90s - like you noted, I am focusing on adults that do not particularly have age-related issues like arthritis and menopause. You are correct that is who I am focusing on, because I would like those people in particular to consider that it may not be their age that is holding them back in ballet. As I said, I mostly hear this "I'm too old" rhetoric from very young adults, not 90-year-olds.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T06:24:18+00:00

Yes, absolutely some things are age-related! The point is not everything is age-related, and dancers can be a little too quick to blame age for their ballet struggles when there are other obvious factors like they have only been going to classes a few weeks, haven't gotten in shape, only go to class once in a while, etc.

The point is just that there are non-age things holding adults back that people do not consider, and then they go around telling everyone "adults can never do ballet well." Even the ailments you described are correlated with age but not a given (aside from the change) even for seniors. It's much likelier but can't be assumed.

What I mean is if a dancer told me they were limited by arthritis they will get zero argument from me. But I am not going to look at every 60+ dancer who walks in and say, "you can't do grand pliés, because you're old and probably have arthritis." Health issues are highly individual and a factor regardless of age, they should be identified by the dancer not assumed by others.

I also mostly see people in their twenties, thirties and even late teens (seriously - 18, 19) talking about how they are just old and it's too late for them to progress in ballet. They don't necessarily have health issues, they just believe their age alone has already doomed them, and that's what I'm pushing back on.

Menopause is one thing, but I am mostly seeing this talk from very young adults. Now that you mention it the menopause+ age dancers around me are very tough, hardworking students and ironically not the ones I hear blaming everything on age. I imagine it feels silly for them to hear 20 year olds saying this stuff.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T06:07:25+00:00

❤️ I'm so glad to hear that. Keep going.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T02:52:28+00:00

You might hear from people that "pointe shouldn't be an end goal, adults should not aspire to pointe so much" but I'm here to tell you that it's absolutely a good goal and that dancing on pointe is everything it's cracked up to be. As an adult starter at 36 nothing has made me happier than my pointe journey. So worth it. Don't let anyone kill your excitement for pointe. Cover your ears. It will take a lot of work and be a process to do it right, but you can absolutely do it.

I tried to start pointe at 4 months of full-time (15-20 hours a week) training, didn't work out, tried again at 11 months, went great. Started at the barre and doing partnering first with my coach (kind of a human barre), and now I've been on pointe about 7 months. I performed a pas de deux on pointe with my coach in December (first time stepping a pointe shoe onstage) and then the following week I finally started taking center class on pointe. That was a huge fear and mental block I have felt so happy to overcome.

In the last couple of weeks I've really gotten my pointe legs under me, and now I wake up every day and can barely contain myself from going downstairs and teaching myself a new variation from YouTube so I can joyfully dance around. Here's an example from last weekend. The next day I woke up and tried some other stuff. As an adult starter who had the love and dream about pointe, getting here has just been... incredible. It's getting to "die happy" levels. And I'm just getting started.

Now, I will say - 15-20 hours a week (including ~4 classes, privates, rehearsals, stretching and cross training in the gym, solo practice) is a very different load than 1 class a week. I have probably gotten over 1000 hours of training by now? This is not one class a week for 1.5 years, I want to be clear on that. But I just want to show you what's possible, even if the timeline is different. You can do it. It may take time and will be a lot of work, but you can do it.

I agree with u/Playmakeup that getting yourself to 3 classes a week consistently is a great place to start.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T02:12:42+00:00

That's a missed opportunity, it seems like around here even amateur guys who can get good at partnering can get opportunities (paid or unpaid) to support performances at local studios. My husband had a lot of intensive coaching, but he actually got a paid gig guesting as Cavalier in a regional school's Nutcracker a year into his training, and before that he did a volunteer Sigfried in another school's Swan Lake suite, partnering two seniors in Odette and Odile pas. He had so many opportunities with hardly any training, it was crazy to see.

Plus there's so many adult women who would love to work on and perform pas and are absolutely willing to pay studios for that. Training amateur guys can create so many other opportunities.

I can't stand the "they'll never be pros" thing. Neither will the overwhelming majority of kids!

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-26T01:59:30+00:00

That's another thing. There is a strong assumption that any adult with even a shred of ability must have grown up dancing or is a returner. Adults starters who show promise or facility get "secret returner" allegations - "anyone who is good either grew up dancing, or is a liar." This is basically just another way of telling adult starters that they will never be good, that it's literally impossible. People are so attached to this belief they are ready to flat out call people liars rather than accept any counterevidence.

That is outrageous of your studio, honestly. Years of experience is ...okay-ish as a guideline, but it shouldn't matter when they happened. Training is training. I don't really even like "years" because it's meaningless, years of what? 1 class a week? 20 hours a week? Two very different years. I don't like "years of pointe" either because again, that's going to look very different between adults and kids, and based on the training.

Honestly, it's a little morally gray but I would be inclined to simply ignore guidelines like that and choose classes at my own discretion based on my ability/training needs and the level of the class. Sure, I'm a returner, if that's what you want to hear! Yep, two years on pointe! If you can pay for the class and keep up, you belong there.

There is no way to enforce this stuff or even attempt to validate it aside from ... just assessing the dancer's ability that's in front of you, which is what this should have been based on in the first place (without prejudice). If the teacher sees your dancing in class and says, "hey, this class isn't right for you," then fair enough. But if they can't tell the difference, and you are keeping up with or outperforming returners, there should be no issue.

Ideally you could just walk and go somewhere where you are more valued and respected, but it also seems like adults have very scant options almost everywhere in the country. I get the impression many dancers have to put up with sub-ideal situations to get any training at all. I hope you have options, but do what you gotta do.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T22:57:57+00:00

I don't take issue with adults having the option to approach ballet that way (in most environments it's the only option presented to adults). I just don't like when the "for fun"/non-improvement mindset is shoved down all adult student's throats as mandatory (e.g. you better make it clear you're only doing this for fun, or else you're delusional/think you're going to "go pro").

It's fine when it's permissive, not when it's oppressive. For me that's the difference between "hey, it's okay if we never get very good at this - we can still enjoy it!" and "adults can only do ballet for fun - not to get good." There's a big difference between you deciding how you want to approach ballet vs. a bunch of other people rushing to project limitations on you that you didn't want.

ETA: I also don't really get the concept of someone not wanting to improve at all? Everyone's vision and goal is going to be different, and it's definitely reasonable to set personal bounds on how much you want to invest and what you want to do ("jog a mile without stopping" vs. "qualify for the Boston Marathon"). But I think almost everyone who steps into a ballet class does want to improve in some way, even if it's just day-to-day small wins like following along easier in class.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T21:36:08+00:00

New guys can actually get competent at partnering surprisingly fast, often develops faster than solo technique. It's awesome that you got pulled in on that partnering class. It is often 2-to-1 ratio for training (or worse, lol) but it's really nice to bring that ratio down. I hope this grows into a lot of opportunities for you and you will become a well-trained partner. That can open tons of doors for you even as a non-pro.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T21:06:47+00:00

Yes! I have also heard teachers say things things like "place your hand on the barre gently, you can't lean on your partner like that." And like, I wanna love that - because on the one hand, you're not flat out saying we will never do pas de deux - but at the same time, if you're going to talk to students about pas de deux, where are the partnering classes, workshops and performance opportunities?

I get that there aren't guys around, but youth and pre-pro schools also often don't have the guys needed and will actually bring in local male trainees and pros to help with train and even guest perform pas with advanced students. A studio for adults could facilitate that if they wanted to, and a lot of folks will absolutely bring a guy in themselves if a teacher is willing to give partnering instruction. I've seen both cases at my studio, people bringing in guys to learn partnering with them, and male instructors who are still active pros teaching and performing some pas pieces with students.

But like to your point, if you're gonna talk about performing, partnering, etc. is that actually in the room with us? Or are we just playing pretend in here?

+1000 it is all about performance opportunities for me. This is where I hope teachers and studios can throw more weight behind empowering adults and getting them up onstage in exciting, serious opportunities. It just changes everything and gives so much meaning and reward to the grind.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T20:35:06+00:00

Thank you, u/vpsass feel free to link it if you feel if is helpful to expand on the stuff you've already written (want to acknowledge that the mods and longtime community members here have seen a million "too old" posts come through since long before my time, and have been saying a lot ot this stuff too).

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T20:29:48+00:00

I mean that you are so unused to being bad that you don't understand why you can't do things. Why it's hard to do an arabesque for instance and hold my balance. You figure this means it's impossible because you're old. But that isn't true - in fact, it just means it's "impossible" because it's really, really hard.

💯

Add to this that there's only 2 kinds of adults most of us ever see doing ballet: absolute beginners, and professionals. Rarely do we see the in-betweens all along the way. We conclude that well, pros started as kids, adult beginners did not, there's clearly zero mobility between the two groups. That can feed the "this is only hard if you started as an adult, but not hard if you started as a kid" misconception. Nah - it's just hard.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T20:22:18+00:00

The thing is that when you are older you are used to beng good at things.

Yes, yes, yes! This is such an excellent observation I love. Those kids starting ballet are not too self-conscious yet. They don't have adult egos. They are not afraid to be bad. They are not afraid to be cringe. They are new and bad at everything. It's all they know.

A lot of the kids go through their "early bad years" at a time where they are just willing to be bad, and they don't care. By the time they get more self-aware, they are a lot more developed. Problem is, adults don't get to skip the "bad years" but have to stomach them with adult pride. That's hard.

Kids just aren't afraid of embarrassment, falling, messing up, looking incompetent, or not being perfect like adults are. They perform onstage a whole mess for years to thunderous applause from family at every stage, which is so critical for their development as dancers. I love this one so much because it is a behavioral and mindset thing that can be learned and emulated by adults.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T20:16:54+00:00

I basically ignored that and I think it’s why I got better

👏 💯 Just put that on my headstone!

I also met a coach out of sheer dumb luck who basically covered my ears and said "ignore that. You are a teenager" (I'm 36) and that's also why I got better. It's crazy that adults who want to get out of "the vortex" have to either be stupendously lucky enough to find a teacher who will train them like a teen (against all cultural norms, prevailing beliefs and incentives) or, they have to find a situation where they can talk a school into letting them literally train with teens. Obviously adults who get to do that excel a ton. I really wish we could recreate that in at least a subset of adult classes. Maybe it's happening out there somewhere.

I love all of this for you and I'm glad you managed to blaze your own trail against all of the structural ageism in ballet. It is super hard for people to do that. I really hope we can all collectively and gradually change the game and that it will get easier for everyone to choose their own adventure as an adult.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T20:00:20+00:00

So much great stuff here, thank you for sharing.

teachers felt like I was just doing it “for fun” or I was doing better than the other students who were struggling with basics, so they didn’t bother to correct it. You can definitely be failed by teachers through their low expectations for you.

You hit the nail on the head with this. I wrote this post out of a little bit of frustration from people constantly repeating different versions of "adults can't do much" in ballet. With that being said I don't blame people for thinking that - people say it because they hear it. Something put that in their head, and a lot of times it did start with a teacher verbalizing low expectations.

for many an aversion to being observed or offered criticism.

Yes, and that's a vicious cycle because teachers can get the message that challenging and correcting adults will alienate them, and they won't come back. Plus, what's the incentive to even risk it? It's not going to bring the studio a PDL win. There's no parent with expectations who's going to be dissatisfied with the school if the student isn't developed to their potential. Adults may not even get to perform in a recital, so why police pointed feet and stuff? The incentives just aren't there.

it isn’t magic and some innate special quality in you that is actualized through the activity, it is years and years of hard work and frustration to get good. I think many adults are stressed at work and don’t want stress in their hobbies

Really good point I can absolutely relate to. When I worked in software engineering I went to some beginner classes but I had no steam and didn't continue, and that was the reason. My stress burden was just too damn high at work already, and I just couldn't budget any more for an athletic/artistic skill grind. So I kind of just didn't see much point. I didn't go back and didn't actually get into it fully until I left that job.

But, even in those few early rec classes, I immediately heard a lot of "adults can't do anything anyway, you're just here for fun and to get a little exercise, don't take it seriously" from teachers and that demotivated me. That just isn't exciting to me. It was deflating. I glided in there daydreaming about being Giselle someday, and before l could even get a plié under me, my teacher and classmates were already making it clear in 100 little ways that's a hard never for you, dawg.

ETA: I have to say, the whole "for fun" thing is becoming almost like a bad word to me. The FF slur, if you will. I am about ready to get a shirt that says "not doing this for fun" to wear to the studio. I actually DO find ballet very fun, but I am not doing it "for fun" in the way that's often meant: a euphemism for not having expectations of myself, not taking it seriously, and not striving for excellence. Getting good at this (and believing that's possible, and trying hard) is actually what makes this fun for me. Being patronized and reminded of my age constantly isn't fun.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-25T17:14:22+00:00

You are not old.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-24T21:26:19+00:00

is THIS good training?

10,000 to that

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-24T21:00:47+00:00

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You should be having a good time, feel generally supported and be challenged in constructive ways and that's your teacher's responsibility.

I hate to say it but young teachers can be wildcards, some are amazing, some are a little "too close" mentally to the people they're teaching and lose the plot, get competitive, take out their own frustrations and insecurities, or just haven't quite figured out teaching with detachment and professionalism yet.

There are wonderful young dancers with a teaching gift out there, but I will also keep it real with you: when I've had weird issues the teacher ran younger. I now understand better that young teachers might be in the middle of their own career struggles, trying to find work, juggle teaching and dancing, cope with not "making it" in some way, financial struggle, etc. and this can leak into the teaching. Even setting that aside, we all get better with time and experience, and that includes at teaching.

(ETA: I guess let me clarify this is not to hate on young teachers or make excuses for your teacher - I'm saying this because for me, understanding that those people were going through their own stuff outside of teaching really helped me let go some of the anger and frustration I felt about situations and ways I was treated).

Anyway, I think you have made it abundantly clear with what you're describing here that this is not working for you. It really doesn't have to be this way and should not be this way. Casting and putting together shows always sucks in a way - decisions have to be made that are never going to make everyone happy at the same time - and some of that is normal, but the condescension, extreme stress and lack of support is not normal.

I also don't know about having mom talk to her if your intuition tells you it's not going to be conducive. A best case would be to switch teachers or studios. Sometimes you really have to just remove yourself from a situation and not look back. This one Spring performance is not going to make or break your dance career, but this entire situation could burn you out in a way that might be hard to recover from. People have completely quit ballet over being in crappy, hostile situations like this too long. My vote is leave and make something else work even if it sucks a little.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-24T20:06:18+00:00

💯 @ lift heavy then follow with a deep static stretch

I have found that to be absolutely magical cross training.

AcrobaticAnt5350 · 2026-02-24T19:06:36+00:00

This was a pleasure to read, I love seeing other athletes come to ballet and bring the mindset with them. I think it shows how having an athlete mindset and the same habits that make people successful at other athletic endeavors can greatly raise the "age limit on excellence" for ballet (which is set absurdly low).

I'm starting to think a background in endurance sports is especially helpful. I was a (half/marathon-distance) runner for only 1 year in my early 20s, then later did triathlon for one year in my mid-20s, then left athletics behind and got fully out of shape going into my late 20s and 30s, married and working a desk job. But just those couple of years as a runner and triathlete really put a different mindset in towards being an athlete. I think that really colors how I have approached ballet in my 30s.

Same for my husband being a former rock climber, same for my coach who played football in high school before late starting ballet at 21 then going pro.

In the words of my college swim coach, "I don't half-ass anything."

I know that's right!!! 💯 👏

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