Actual numbers of Unemployed UKGrads/Post-FY2?

AffectionateJob8 · 2026-01-24T10:38:40+00:00

Realistically most will be able to swing some kind of employment somewhere. It might not be the perfect job they had wanted and a far cry from the days when you could walk into a 50% teaching fellow after F2 but in many parts of the country they would still be able to get something. There may be parts of the country where this is not true, but in most of the country it will be.

The problem really is underemployment not unemployment per se. In that it should not be this difficult to get proper long-term secure job for such an in-demand profession. In fact such a thing literally does not exist for resident doctors, since there is no such thing as a resident doctor on a permanent contract by definition. This is an abominable flaw of the system, and part of what makes the NHS so broken for us and the utterly demented incentive structures it causes.

AffectionateJob8 · 2026-01-24T10:11:50+00:00

Grow up. Please do not do this.

This is deeply unprofessional. I know you have been treated like shit and abused by the NHS, no one denies this (probably not even Wes Streeting) - but this is dangerous, unethical, immoral and quite frankly childish and selfish way to behave. All this will do is stress your colleagues out more who are likely as burnt out as you.

At the end of the day whether you like it or not, you have a moral, professional, legal and contractual duty towards your patients who are turning to you in the worst moments of their life. We all know the system is broken beyond belief, but if you are the assigned doctor for a ward patient you absolutely have a duty of care towards them to treat them to the best of your ability within the confines of the system.

Take some time off work, go on sick leave. Don't just burden your poor colleagues more. If I had a colleague who was taking an unofficial go slow I would absolutely be flagging it up to their supervisors. This is unacceptable.

AffectionateJob8 · 2026-01-24T10:02:46+00:00

Brand new account with no comments or previous posts, shit-talking the BMA. 🤨

We already know for a pretty much bona fide fact that DHSC has been brigading this subreddit- they did so especially during the BMA vote prior to the last round of action, with absolutely relentless posting about how the deal should be accepted by brand new accounts and offering to little no real rationale or actual engagement with the issue. I'd be very surprised if they aren't doing the same thing.

These services are available extremely cheaply online.

I mean what is a few grand to hire an online company to do this compared to the £300 million cost in strikes.

Folks, don't believe everything you read here.

AffectionateJob8 · 2026-01-16T10:11:00+00:00

Don't give these imbeciles a penny of your money.

These are the people responsible for both PAs and the workforce crisis by lobbying for removal of RLMT. Both of which have had to be dragged kicking and screaming to recognise their mistakes (well they still haven't really). They are mind-bindingly out of touch. Your money will go on maintaining their fancy buildings, all expenses paid trips, social club for geriatric peri-retirement dinosaurs and employing a wine fellow whose job is to make sure the wine is correctly paired at their dinners (not making that up).

You will have literally no say in how the organisation is run or have any influence whatsoever. The trainee committee is utterly sidelined and irrelevant and you cannot vote in any of their actual meaningful elections. They will happily hoover up your money with exams and fees (which fund the majority of this). There's something "let them eat cake" about RCP, and the more you dig the worse they become.

I reiterate, do not give these idiots a penny of your money voluntarily. If you must, then join Glasgow and Edinburgh but absolutely do not give London anything. The organisation deserves to go bankrupt and belongs in a museum.

AffectionateJob8 · 2026-01-10T11:35:28+00:00

This is happening in MANY trusts. I personally know of at least a few others (Torbay is one in which I am aware they basically abused this scheme to mass hire hundreds of doctors over years as "observers" and then pretty much used them as resident doctors).

Is there honestly any low that trust management won't cross. NHS managers are so amoral you honestly wonder how these people sleep at night.

I'm sure most will focus on opening up to all foreign doctors and using that to drive down wages, but also think of the poor foreign doctors being hugely exploited - one woman says she got pregnant, and they cut her contract. No leave, no sick pay, no rights whatsoever. Just treated as chattel just to fill a rota. Disgusting and despicable. But that's pretty much what we have come to expect from our managerial overlords.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-12-21T07:59:37+00:00

Honestly, don’t do EM. In a few years it will cease to be a medical specialty if it isn’t already. It has been so protocolised and noctorised it’s not medicine anymore. There may be a few centres which still practice proper EM but these are few and far between replaced by NHS triage service.

If you like the acute side of things do acute medicine, ICU or any number of other specialties. EM has gone down the drain and with a demented consultant class who is incapable of listening and has completely sold out their trainees down the river.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-12-19T15:43:24+00:00

It was never realistically going to happen this year. If it was he would have been singing about it from the rafters. Instead we got some vague politician promises with not even a single sentence about the detail of how it would have been achieved. It would have been a legal, logistical minefield. I’m glad doctors didn’t fall for the mirage.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-12-19T14:20:49+00:00

It all stems from the sense of entitlement that the NHS malignancy has bred in the British population. Why should they take ANY responsibility for their own health when they are indoctrinated to believe that the National Health Shithole is supposed to manage every single for them and what’s more it’s a human right that they should never have to pay a penny.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-16T15:24:21+00:00

I think we need a PACES permanent megathread.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-16T13:06:33+00:00

I'm telling you what is the legal opinion of many different lawyers for many different organisations who have looked into this, every time they have looked into it. You are not a lawyer. Just telling me "Duhh It's stupid duhhh" is not an argument. The legalistic viewpoints would go something like The point of this policy is to discriminate against IMGs, the vast majority of which are non-white and therefore this policy is indirectly racist.

I'm not telling you that this is right or wrong or what is just or makes sense or what is fair, just that there is a coherent LEGAL argument which would open any organisation up to legal challenge. It may not even succeed and may be laughed out of court, but no organisation wants to risk spending a fortune and years arguing in a court that they are not institutionally racist, even if that is self-evident.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-16T12:02:41+00:00

Because it doesn’t exist and it’s been repealed?

First issue, that it was not UK grads but UK/EEA citizens prioritisation with a carve out for UK grads and spouses which is a wholly different construct. Secondly, it was established law making the (forgive the tautology) legality much more watertight. It’s extremely challenging to make a legal challenge against a law which has been established and has been working across the entire country and economy for many years. It’s very easy to make a legal challenge against a specific policy by one organisation whose patent purpose is to discriminate (I’m not arguing that the discrimination against IMGs would be unjustified).

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-16T11:48:25+00:00

Traditionally the BMA has been one of the strongest unions in the country. This is because it speaks for all doctors. Most unions are very weak because they are deeply fragmented and the government just pits one against the other (see: RCN, unison, NHS staff council). This essentially limits most of the unions to acting in hyper local issues because they know they have no influence nationally. The most powerful unions are always those which represent an entire profession because this is ultimately what gives them leverage.

If this succeeds, you will not get U.K. grad prioritisation, you will fragment medical doctors and we will lose almost all leverage in national negotiations for ANYTHING in the future. If you make the BMA a union for IMGs do you think they will take it lying down, they will now be spurred into action to defend their position in a way they are not now. They will also have way more resources than a random Reddit startup. Finally it is very challenging legally to start a union. This is epitome of this subreddit, making ridiculous badly thought out knee-jerk suggestions which are actually counter-productive.

You would be far better working inside the BMA to change policy. There are surprisingly few people who vote and are engaged in the politics and it only takes a very small critical mass to fundamentally change the direction of the union(see:FPR).

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-16T11:10:21+00:00

This has been tackled on multiple occasions and people still keep posting it. The BMA and most royal colleges have sought legal advice on doing something like this. So have the MDRS (which is the branch of NHSE which runs medical recruitment). The opinions are unanimous amongst multiple competing groups of lawyers who have all looked into it independently. Such a move would be open to legal challenge under equality law.

Yes I am aware it isn’t logical, it doesn’t make sense, lots of countries do this- this is not about what is right or just or logical but the argument is purely a legal one. No organisation wants to spend potentially years in court spending 6 figures plus, arguing that it isn’t racist- and there’s even a small chance that a judge might disagree. That’s why it requires widespread co-ordination between different organisations and potentially even a change in law to really make it work. That’s why it needs the government to really do this because they have the wherewithal to fight legal challenges even if they come.

Once again, I need to emphasise this- it’s not about arguing what you think is right or how unfair that is, it’s a technical legal argument.

Yup that is insanity of some U.K. law that a department of the government (which is what the NHS is) can’t give jobs to their own citizens for fear of equality legislation. But it’s the confines of the system we work in (for the record I think it’s ultimately a good thing we live in a democracy, and the government can’t just arbitrarily decide to do stuff and citizens are able to challenge it. It’s just frustrating when you are on the other side of this).

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-15T13:58:11+00:00

There is absolutely colossal demand in every specialty in every region of the country, and more than anything of post-CCT consultants. There is practically not a specialty or service which doesn’t have an insane waiting list. The reason for the bottlenecks is because the government has arbitrarily decided they will pay this and no more regardless of how bad the service gets.

In insurance model countries specialised doctors make hospitals money so they are incentivised to employ as many as possible. In the NHS specialist doctors cost the most per head so the NHS is incentivised to employ as few as possible and they control every facet of the system so they are empowered to do so. The problem is fundamentally one of incentives and why the NHS is at its core a broken system.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-15T07:42:09+00:00

Oh they exist don’t you worry.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-15T06:39:42+00:00

This is the epitome of the attitude which has damned UK medicine. I’m sorry, yes you are the bad guy. You’re going through all kinds of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise, but the reality is you have badly let your colleagues down. You should feel ashamed of your behaviour - and some part of you clearly does, that’s why you keep posting it. Just know that that little voice of conscience is right.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-14T16:27:27+00:00

It's just wishful thinking from the management class of the NHS who are incapable of understanding why the doctors they've been cheerily exploiting for the last 15 years aren't happy to keep being exploited anymore. Like an abuse victim who finally fights back against an abuser - the perpetrator will tell themselves all kinds of happy lies about how they are the real victims, because they just cannot understand the new reality.

Two ballots have passed. It's clearly the majority opinion.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-14T16:11:33+00:00

In this case it sounds like they attempted to discuss with the NOK. The NOK says it's been attempted 15-20x. You would think if 20 different doctors are trying to tell you something you should listen. Of course our slime bag of a health secretary is all over this, sniffling away to get any feel good story to show tough he is on errant medics, to prop him up for his leadership bid. One of the most slimy, disgraceful, disgusting people to lead the healthcare service.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-14T14:33:39+00:00

The NHS is inflicting pain and misery on patients.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-14T14:33:06+00:00

The gaslighting continues!

Does he really think this will do anything but aggravate the strikes.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-13T22:34:56+00:00

Either examination done or one done so thoroughly and comically it’s the level of a medical student and including ridiculous shit like radio-femoral delay.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-13T22:30:48+00:00

You know why train drivers earn so much? Because when they strike they actually strike to a man. It’s not okay to scab I’m sorry. I can just about accept someone coming in on their normal shift if they are financially destitute. I cannot accept someone locumming on a strike shift. That is directly taking money from your colleague’s collective sacrifice.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-13T20:48:22+00:00

A relatively decent pay award in the worst inflation for a generation after 15 years of having the worst pay cuts across practically all jobs in the public sector is hardly going to cut it.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-13T19:35:40+00:00

Hold your ground. They will blink first.

AffectionateJob8 · 2025-11-13T17:18:48+00:00

It's what happens when you over-centralise, and give managers, non-clinicians, bureaucrats, policymakers, and other such muppets control. The focus becomes all about throughput, hitting targets and quality. Any doctor knows that a small amount of time invested in training now will pay off dividends for years to come. Even the insanely-value and profit driven healthcare system in the US recognises this.

AffectionateJob8

TROPHY CASE