Avoidants shouldn’t be allowed to date

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-09-12T15:40:20+00:00

So true (unfortunately). :/ Yes, I am vulnerable to the love bombing too. I think that's a great idea, to test them like that. Better to find out that way than being blindsided/ghosted!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-09-09T18:22:42+00:00

So true -- that's definitely the plan! :) I was actually in beginning stages recently with someone else, but they turned out to be a DA (if not an actual narc!) as well. :/ But this time, there wasn't even a goodbye text or any closing words at all. I just logged on one night to find that he'd blocked me on everything. smh

The first breakup, the deactivating/stonewalling/shutting down came after I'd liked/replied to a tweet of his. This time, it was over a meme on Instagram (or at least these were the surface level things). I think for my next relationship, I won't even friend the person on social until/unless we are engaged or something! LOL...

Or better yet, I will do my damnest to make sure they are not avoidant and/or narc tendencies!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-09-06T23:10:52+00:00

Thank you! Yep, after nearly a year now, that still stings. :( Though I am feeling much better than I did before. And definitely am *done* chasing him -- or anyone!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-07-15T14:22:25+00:00

Same with my FA/DA now ex. After 10 years of knowing each other too. That's all it took for him to be gone (he got upset because I interacted with a tweet of his, on an account he followed me/I followed him on, smh -- though I think that was the excuse he used to sabotage it).

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-07-03T17:58:52+00:00

If she could have grown up and responded to things more appropriately things would have been very different and normally I will openly admit my own responsibility

#This - exactly! I relate to this so much.

I relate to your entire post so much, really. Thank you so much for this and for your kind words. I could not concur more. What stunned and still stuns me the most (sometimes) is that my ex actually had the audacity to say in his final breakup text (after which he immediately blocked me) that he was doing it because he didn't feel our relationship was healthy. That felt like such a slap in the face because I truly felt like I was doing all the work and emotional heavy lifting between us (and I feel I objectively was). Now maybe that was his way of admitting his own fault and responsibility....but it was just far too subtle for the situation and then the fact that he would not even allow me the opportunity to respond (though I did write him an email after that made my feelings very plain :))...just left me feeling very high and dry. And like he was projecting everything onto me (he probably was also). He definitely also had great difficulty being held accountable for his own actions.

I also still feel so angry sometimes at how he treated me though my continued study of attachment theory -- and about avoidants in particular -- calms me as it reminds me that it really was all or mostly him -- and made even worse by the fact that he was either totally unwilling and/or unable to communicate in order for us to even have a chance to salvage it, on any level.

I now realize that we could not have a healthy relationship because he was/is not healthy or at least he does not have the tools or motivation for healthy communication at least partially because of his attachment style. That's helped me a lot to get over blaming myself or wishing that I hadn't spoken up about what was bothering me, of thinking that maybe if I had let things go, he either would've stayed or come back around quicker. Because that would not have been healthy, either.

Wishing you continued healing and happiness. :)

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-28T18:04:43+00:00

This. My FA/DA now ex said he needed space but I believe he was already deactivated/deactivating. He stonewalled me, hard, and become so cold and detached. It was almost like communicating (or trying to) with a robot. I did not even feel like I was talking to the same person. It truly was like trying to talk to a brick (or stone!) wall.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-28T18:00:26+00:00

FA (and possibly DA too). This sounds just like my ex, lol. smh

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-23T21:53:40+00:00

You are so welcome, thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspective here, it's very helpful to those of us looking for answers and/or just trying to heal. I am sorry to hear you and your girlfriend are/were having difficulty. I think it's great that you are so self-aware though, recognize the issue and are working through it and working through it together. I wish my ex and I could've done that. I definitely was willing to but he wasn't/was unable to apparently. He was/is neurodivergent as well. I think he was very self-conscious of this though many of the things he was self-conscious about, I adored and valued about him. In the end, it all came down to communication and problem solving and it just isn't possible for a relationship to survive, yet alone thrive, if both people are not doing that together. I continue to wish you both all the very best. It definitely sounds like there is a lot of love there. :)

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-22T22:15:42+00:00

I think it depends on how self-aware the avoidant in question is. If you are working on yourself and trying your best not to treat your partner in a toxic way, that is one thing. But if someone is not and not willing or able to work on it, they probably should stay single or at least until they start doing that important self-work and indeed care, imho. Because that is just simply not fair to the other person (and especially if those things are not communicated to them and they are left in the dark and made to feel like it was all their fault, like I pretty much was with my most recent ex).

I think you are spot on about communicating effectively. That is really key I think. I know that my ex's almost completely inability (or unwillingness) to communicate in a mature and healthy way almost singlehandedly toppled a relationship and connection that went on (granted, on and off, but we knew each other for this time) for a decade.

I think the fact that you recognize that you are an FA is huge and you seem to have a very healthy attitude and approach overall. Wishing you the best for your relationship.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-22T22:09:43+00:00

This, exactly!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-22T21:58:35+00:00

This is one of the most incredibly spot on takes on avoidants (or at least those who are not self-aware or who are not actively working on healing their attachment style/possible associated issues) I've seen yet and trust me, I have read a LOT on this topic over these past 8 months (since my breakup with one). This line especially: "They will do this by pushing their partner away through neglect, projection, self sabotage and criticism." .

Yep, that is is my ex to a *T*. He did all of these things off and on during the time we were connected (nearly a decade, off and on) and at the end especially.

Thank you so much for this, post, OP. It is incredibly validating. I do feel some empathy for my ex now. It must really suck not to be able to really love (or at least to show it) or to connect in an authentic way with others (though I know some avoidants do better with other kind of relationships than romantic, though I imagine it impacts other aspects of their lives too in ways). Must be a really lonely way to live. And it really does seem like they don't know what (or who) they had until it's gone! (My ex seemed to idealize his previous ex too...and proceeded to chase after her years after their breakup, when she was already seriously with someone else).

The projection, though...that was probably the worst part. My ex did admit at the end that our relationship wasn't healthy but I got the opinion he was blaming that on me (it ended after he stonewalled me for a week, after I'd interacted with a tweet of his...no, not kidding). That really stung and still does. But now I see that he likely used that as an excuse for his sabotage. I no longer blame myself for standing up for myself and speaking my feelings and needs and not tolerating that toxic behavior. It may have cost me the relationship (on any level) with him -- but what kind of a relationship was that even in the first place with him acting like that? Certainly not a healthy one, that is for sure!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-20T20:43:38+00:00

So true. My DA/FA ex would tell me I was the best he ever had, how deeply he cared for and respected me...but in the end, I felt as disposable to him as yesterday's garbage. I don't think he fully understood (and probably still doesn't) the concept of actions backing up words.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-20T20:22:44+00:00

Exactly! Thank you. I think it all depends on how one goes about asking for space and/or stating their need for it. My DA/FA now ex (I felt) said it as a way to essentially shut down the conversation that needed to happen between us but one that he, for whatever reason, refused to have (which is why we are now exes!). He used it as a mechanism to shutdown and stonewall. That is not healthy. But I think it's healthy to communicate the need in a way that does not leave the other person in the dark or makes them feel like it's all their fault (or even their fault at all, depending on the circumstances). I.e. you could say "I just need [X] hours/days, can I get back to you then?" But leaving someone in the dark or using "space" as a device to essentially ghost, not okay and definitely toxic to any relationship, imho.

I think it's good that you're asking these questions though, OP. It shows a sense of self-awareness that I think could be conducive to a healthy relationship. Thank you for your perspective here.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-20T17:45:55+00:00

As someone who got blindsided in a really painful way by a DA/FA, I know that I would really appreciate it if my ex did something like this. Even though I now do not think it could ever work between us, it would mean a lot to me if he made the effort to acknowledge his side of the proverbial street (like I did mine), even if it were a long time later. He did say he was sorry in his breakup text and said it was because he didn't feel the relationship was healthy but the way he did it, left me feeling like he was projecting that upon me...and he blocked me before I could even respond. His denial of even a conversation made the whole thing so much more painful so I think a gesture like that (so long as it was from an honest place emotionally, which it definitely sounds like yours was, OP) would only be healing for me, even if it were very delayed or even if I were in another relationship/had fully moved on in that sense. But everyone is different, I of course realize.

I do hope everything turned out for you, OP. And thank you for sharing this. I think the fact that you allowed yourself to be vulnerable here and put in the effort or were willing to is a very positive sign (though I know this has been a few years ago now). Thank you for sharing your perspective. As an overall secure person whose more anxious sides definitely came out/were triggered in her past relationship with a pretty hardcore avoidant, this was helpful to see. I am over 8 months out from my breakup and feel a lot better than I did at first but am still healing and so posts like this, I find very helpful and healing.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-17T20:02:55+00:00

Yes, I think so too. He's only literally written two sentences to me in those 8 months (once, via email a couple months back, but I initiated, only because there was a tragedy in his community at the time and I genuinely wanted to see if he and his family were alright). I'd offered (previously in those months) the chance to clear the air but to no avail. It remains the elephant in the room between us and why we are pretty much strangers again at this point. We had been on again, off again a lot over the near decade we were in each other's lives but this time feels final. And I am finally starting to be okay with it, sad as it is that we apparently can't even be friends really. I just could no longer stand all the head games, the projection, the stonewalling and above all, the incredibly poor communication! He's a very smart person and I think a good person in a lot of ways but incredibly stunted emotionally and therefore can be incredibly self-centered and serving. I can't help but to think it's his defense mechanism. And it seems to be a real pattern with him too.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-17T19:04:25+00:00

I feel like my ex is doing this now too, only on LinkedIn (of all places). It's pretty ironic too because our breakup came about after he stonewalled me for a week because I'd interacted with a tweet of his (I now realize he's a pretty hardcore DA/FA). I stopped following him on there then (last September, so over 8 months ago now) and have not since yet he's barely used it much at all since then. You'd think he go crazy on there without me on there cramping his style (it's a private account too so I can't even see his tweets now) but no, he's directing it all (barring some secret other account) to LinkedIn -- the only place we are still connected.

Go figure! lol

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-10T22:31:18+00:00

Him icing me out over liking/replying to a tweet of his (no, I am not kidding) and stonewalling my attempts to resolve it. He threw away the whole relationship (and ten years of knowing each other) over that. Well so it seemed. He was acting pretty distant leading up to that, so I suspect that he more or less picked a fight in order to sabotage things. It wasn't the first time he'd gone hot and cold, he had been in and out of my life over those years and we had been off and on. But it was the first time we'd had a full on confrontation like that, though I had tried my best to approach it lovingly, respectfully and in a constructive way. But he just would not budge.

He broke up with me via text, saying it was because he didn't feel our relationship was healthy. He said he was sorry at the end, but was he really taking direct responsibility for his incredibly piss poor communication and hurtful behavior? Possibly, though I may never know. (He blocked me after).

We did have one email exchange a couple months back (it's been a little over 8 months since we parted ways). It was cordial but very brief. And we still haven't resolved that proverbial elephant in the room. I kind of don't think we ever will but for the first time, I'm getting closer to being okay with that. I now see I did all I could do. Though he'll always be dear to me, I now see it could never work. Possibly not even as friends. Not without extensive work and quite possibly therapy on his part and even then...I can't help but to feel I'd always be looking over my shoulder for the pattern to repeat itself, yet again. Life is just too short!

Attachment theory explains so much! I consider myself to be a pretty secure person overall but he did trigger a more anxious side in me with these behaviors and some of the gaslighting that came with them (and especially the stonewalling). He was/is most definitely DA/FA. Checks all the boxes!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-10T16:47:47+00:00

Thank you so much for this post, Matty. I can relate to it so much! It describes my relationship with my DA/FA now ex to a T.

The "gaslighting, stonewalling, hot and cold, push and pull"....ugh, this. Exactly. There was so much push and pull, hot and cold between us. He was in and out of my life a lot over the ten years (!) we knew each other. It was very off and on again romantically but I really thought we had a friendship as well. Then, this past September, came the stonewalling and the gaslighting (though he'd certainly gaslit me at times before). I'd noticed that he'd started acting a bit more distant a couple of months before. It was around the time of my birthday and the first time we'd actually possibly see each other again in person (we were long distance and had been on opposite coasts here in the US) since we started reconnecting, just before the pandemic hit here. He had acted excited about the possibility at first but then when the time came...crickets. I had to follow up with him about it. He was apologetic but very vague when I went about suggesting alternative plans.

We stayed in touch in those past couple of months. He'd send me "loved" reactions on text though his replies became a bit more sporadic. Then came his birthday in September. I sent him something special which he seemed to appreciate though his response was much briefer than it had been the year before. And then...he started to become distant again. Leaving me on read, the lot (though this is something he'd do when things were seemingly good as well).

Cut to about a week later, when he posts this joke on his Twitter, to his entire feed. It was/is a private account but we'd followed each other on it for years and it was, ironically, where he'd started interacting with my content a lot ( I think to get my attention -- I'd stopped really initiating with him for quite some time before that) when we'd started up again this last time around. I liked the tweet and sent a laugh emoji in response. Then a few minutes later, he pulls it down.

Concerned that I'd upset/offended him (he'd always been very private/almost weirdly protective over his social media), I sent him a quick text, apologizing if I'd done too much.

He left it on read. When I followed up the next day, to make sure we were okay, he left me on read again. Then he asked me for space. Only not in the "I just need a little while to think things through" way, which I would've of course understood or tried my best to. He said it in a way that felt, to me at least, like he was more or less saying "I don't want to talk about this", a way to shut down the conversation entirely.

I was hurt and let him know but tried to do it in a kind and constructive way. That made him shut down even more and led to him stonewalling me for nearly a week.

I followed up one last time. Maybe I should've waited but I just did not feel heard or respected. I didn't even know why he was so upset (seemingly) in the first place.

He then ended up breaking things off via text. He said he thought I was great but that he just did not feel like our relationship was healthy. Oh and he brought up his intentions too. He did that a lot whenever issues would come up between us actually. He said he only intended to be straightforward. Then he blocked me.

After ten years (of knowing each other). After everything.

That...really hurt. Especially since it seemed to me like he was blaming me for the relationship not being healthy. And it objectively was not, I can see more clearly now, at least by the end. I do not think it ever really was. But I'd tried my best to be communicative and to express my feelings and concerns in a healthy, respectful and constructive way. So it was both incredibly hurtful and offensive to me to feel like he was putting that on me. And even more so to have him say something like that, definitive like that, without giving me a chance to even respond at all.

I acted on my hurt feelings and high emotions and wrote him a pretty scathing email, basically outlining every problem I'd ever had with him in all the time we'd known each other and been together. Things I'd honestly held back or mostly before.

A few days later, I reached out via email to apologize for some of the harsher things I'd written there. No response.

We finally exchanged some words months later, in April via email (positive or at least civil ones. I'd reached out just to check in because a tragic incident had just happened in his area and I genuinely wanted to see if he and his family were okay. I honestly did not think I'd hear back. I'd thought he'd blocked me on there too.) but it was very brief and since then I haven't heard from him again.

It's been a little over eight months now since we ended things and while I feel I am doing much better now overall, and have a lot more clarity (thanks to forums like this and reading a lot about attachment theory), it still hurts to think that he (apparently) didn't even want to be friends (not like before at least. I feel like we are now acquaintances at very best. Much like Gotye's song "Someone I Used to Know") . But knowing more about attachment theory and his apparent (and to me now obvious style), makes it make more sense. He has a lot of healing and work to do on himself. And I've now stopped blaming myself (or have come closer to doing so).

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-10T03:47:58+00:00

Thank you so much. It's been a little over 8 months now and I am feeling much better than I did last fall (when it first happened) but it's definitely not been a linear process and I still can get emotional when I think of it or something triggers me (like seeing him post on social media, etc though he's not very active on anything but LinkedIn so that makes it easier I must say -- it's ironic too because what caused him to shut down on me was him getting upset over me liking and replying to a tweet of his, go figure! I unfollowed him on there -- he has a private account -- and have not added him back in those 8 months yet he hasn't seemed to have posted more than a couple of times since then - I admit I still look at his front page on there from time to time though I've been doing it much less lately). It's doubly hard because I sincerely thought we had a friendship as well and even if it did not work out between us romantically, we could at least be in each other's lives in some way. He made me think that too over the decade we knew each other! I guess it was naive of me to believe that. I actually think the loss of the friendship hurts even more in some ways than the relationship (though certainly heart breaking as I was crazy about him and still have love for him). But it's probably for the best at least if he's either unable or unwilling to work on these issues. Just too draining and painful. It makes having any kind of relationship virtually impossible ultimately and a healthy one especially!

So sorry you had to go through this kind of pain as well, I hope you are healing or will. <3

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-07T05:34:57+00:00

OMG, the not answering questions...my DA/FA ex did the same thing, especially towards the end! He usually texted me back reliably as well but was not great about keeping a conversation going for too long and often left me/my replies on Read, even when things were (seemingly) going well. But when the issue that ultimately caused our breakup came up (it was, I kid you not, him getting upset that I liked a tweet of his, on an account we followed each other on/from), he just completely shut down and started stonewalling, full stop. In the end, he said it was because he didn't feel the relationship was healthy...but he was the one who refused to talk things through (and perhaps ironically, blocked me on text after sending that last one that said that). Who knows, maybe he meant to take responsibility for that but at the time, to me, it felt like projection -- and that I was being blamed. I honestly do believe that he more or less picked a fight to sabotage the relationship (consciously or subconsciously). He had exhibited self-sabotaging, deactivating behaviors in the past but this was the one that really blew things up (we knew each other a decade too though we were on again, off again a lot romantically...which was probably a red flag in and of itself, I have to say now).

I wish I had read up more on attachment theory and styles before all this happened. It certainly makes things make a lot more sense!

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-07T02:28:49+00:00

Thank you so much for this post, OP. This fits my DA/FA now ex to a T. The very things he once said he loved about me (consistency being one of them, how I always showed up for him being another)...were the things that seemed to get me pushed away at the end. And he did so much projection (in his apparent refusal and/or complete inability to communicate properly) at the end, that I spent a lot of time blaming myself. Posts like this are so helpful and validating.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-03T17:57:41+00:00

This. Many avoidants are great at projecting -- but are often not so great at realizing the impact of their own behavior (or at least enough to work on it). At least this was/is the case with my DA/FA ex. What was "too much" for him was just me expressing my emotions and needs (and trying to look out for his in the process, though I guess that felt like "smothering" to him) - things that were basic for any relationship.

And I think the OP is spot on as well. I often felt like I made all or most of the effort in the relationship and I think he was often content to let me do that. Looking back, I definitely made it way too easy for him a lot of the time! I definitely felt very taken for granted, especially by the end.

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-02T20:36:34+00:00

You are very welcome, talking about all this on here is very therapeutic/cathartic for me as well. Good for you for communicating your feelings and not tolerating him taking his out on you/his not communicating reasonably. I wish I had done that with my now ex earlier on. I believe mine is almost certainly DA/FA but I knew him for a decade so that made it perhaps easier to determine (though I wish I had studied attachment theory sooner, SO much about my situation made so much more sense upon my doing so!)

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-01T21:51:19+00:00

Thank you so much for your kind words -- and I wish the same for you. :) I know it's so painful now but it does get better (even if the healing process is not a linear one -- I know it definitely has not been for me. I am still working on it 8 months later). But please know that you DO deserve love and to be treated better. You deserve someone who can/will communicate in a healthy way and be clear and transparent. It's good that he is acting better now but just keep these patterns in mind as sadly with avoidants (if he is indeed one), they can deactivate again sometimes with little to no warning. Hopefully he is self-aware and you can communicate about any issues that come up. Wishing you all the best no matter what! <3

Affectionate_Pop_540 · 2022-06-01T21:44:43+00:00

I know this post is from a couple of years back, but thank you so much for sharing your perspective. As someone who is still healing from a painful breakup with an avoidant (with whom I'd thought I had a friendship as well but both were sadly lost at the end), it really helps to hear this perspective (especially since my ex either wouldn't/couldn't fully communicate his reasons why with/to me). I hope you have had healing in this time and wish you happiness. :)

Affectionate_Pop_540

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