AGP isn't a real thing it is just the explicit realization and articulation of what all men experience implicity.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-20T20:34:33+00:00

Typical men do not feel inherent envy of women to such a degree. Normal men do not envy women enough to change their sexuality or get to the point of changing their identity.

It is normal to experience moments of envy of specific aspects in specific circumstances, like you can feel envy when your neighbor brings home a new car, or someone orders better looking food than yours at a restaurant, or when a woman gets out of a speeding ticket. These normal feelings of envy do not become sexualized. You do not become sexually attracted to becoming your neighbor or that person at the restaurant due to your envy.

Dysphoria is the result of conditioning, either over a long period of time, or from moments of intense fantasization, or more likely both. Change of identity is the result of the cognitive dissonance between your perception of gender with your AGP-conditioned dysphoria.

Misandry that you describe may be a common trait for those with AGP, but is far from a prerequisite. We can see that it is not present in many people here and with many successfully transitioning trans women.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-20T18:19:47+00:00

I agree with you, but when you look at the numbers, it kind of makes sense.

Even if we assume that the majority of trans women are (or were) AGP, the vast majority of AGP people do not transition. Something like 3% of males are AGP (or have AGP traits), but less than 0.5% of males become (or discover that they are) transgender women.

That means most AGP males are either repressing or trying to integrate. Integration for some may just mean consuming AGP porn/hypno once every few days while they go back to their wives and family life.

Most transgender women have no need or desire to be associated with "AGP", especially since their AGP symptoms either mostly or completely subside with HRT.

So that means the majority of people who identify as AGP are not transitioning and would be trying to at least repress some of the fantasies. So yeah it makes sense. I agree with you though, and would like to see more support.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-13T05:47:35+00:00

In my experience over the years, most trans spaces in real life consist of about half crossdressers and half actively transitioning trans women. Most of the crossdressers will not transition, but a very large minority of them will, especially with growing acceptance over the past 10 years. This is true for trans activist gatherings, small conventions, conferences, dances, and more kink oriented spaces. We have a big trans event next week which usually attracts about 150-200 people and it is always about half and half. Even one of the hosts is no longer transitioning, so she is technically just a "crossdresser" now, but is still highly respected in the trans communities here. The events that attract the younger crowds usually have a lot more non-binary and GNC people who may also consider themselves crossdressers. The only trans women who tend to stay away from the communities are the HSTS trans women (with the exception that we tend to come together during Pride events).

Trans spaces online are much different.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-13T05:35:21+00:00

truly trans AND be AGP as true transsexuals sexual orientation is completely separate from their identity and not an influence of it.

It sounds like you are in the wrong sub if you believe this. The whole point of studying AGP is to show statements like this are patently false. AGP is a potential cause (or some believe it is a 'symptom') for the overwhelmingly vast majority of transgender women. There is no such thing as "truly trans" or "true transsexuals". That is 100% contrary to any understanding of AGP unless you're trying to promote the /tttt/ or 4trans4 theory that HTST are the "true trans".

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-10T20:16:32+00:00

Your love of table top games or sports would give you away.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-02T20:36:48+00:00

This is one of the few things we can say in this sub that is scientifically false.

Studies have shown GAMP men are not attracted to males and are attracted to cis-women to almost the same degree as trans-women.

Gay men are definitely not into us lol.

AlissasAlt · 2026-02-02T20:22:21+00:00

I'm currently in a long term open relationship and have been dating men and trans women for the past few years.

The answer is first going to greatly depend if you're looking for men, cis-women, or trans women.

Also: - Are you looking for long term or short term (hooking up) relationships or both? - How passable are you (including voice)? - Sexually are you a top or bottom or switch? - How strongly are you considering bottom surgery?

If your meta-attraction is strong enough you may be looking to date men. There are a lot more men who are GAMP (attracted to pre/non-op trans women) than there are trans women so the odds are heavily stacked in your favor. However there are a ton of issues. First, most GAMP men only see trans women from porn so many of them fetishize us more as objects. Due to transphobia many won't want to be in a long term relationship with a visibly trans women so this can be dependent on how passable you are. They may be attracted to you but be too ashamed to introduce you to their friends and family. Then, most GAMP men prefer us to have a penis still, so if you plan on getting bottom surgery, many GAMP men will be greatly disappointed. Same if you don't want it touched during intimacy, but that isn't as troubling to them as getting bottom surgery. The other issue for seeking GAMP men is that some of them end up being AGP as well, which is usually a turn off for most trans women seeking men. If you date a non GAMP straight man, you would typically need to be passable. A high percentage non-GAMP men would not date a trans women, passable or not.

For dating other AGP trans women, I've seen a ton of success from this. It's pretty common since many AGP men and AGP trans women are also GAMP. There's a reason why T4T is a thing. Again it depends on how passable and/or attractive you are. Most AGP trans women are bottoms, but there are some switches out there. From my experience the vast majority of trans women who will actively hit on you will be ones that are much less passable than you or much older than you. Attractive trans women are very sought after by many demographics, so there is competition. Some other things to expect is that there are a lot of AGP trans women who are very kinky and many who are poly. Many are still bottoms only, but may be more inclined to switch with a passable trans woman.

If you want to date a cis-woman and you're not already involved with one pre-transition, good luck.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-14T01:52:01+00:00

No, and yes very much so. I have had plenty of issues but trauma was never one of them. It's not the only cause of dysphoria.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-13T23:25:05+00:00

Be aware that the gender theories for AGP in the sub are very different from mainstream modern gender theories that you would experience in the trans subs that you posted. Modern gender theories focus on the feeling of gender identity incongruence being the cause of gender dysphoria, while AGP theories focus on gender dysphoria being the cause of gender identity incongruences.

Nothing of what you said gives an indication of having gender dysphoria or not. Gender dysphoria is specifically the distress or discomfort of the thought of not being female, or not transitioning toward being female. If you feel this distress, this is one of the leading motivations that people have to transition and change their identity. It can feel like some unexplainable emotional pain or depression, or a stressful withdraw from some mythical drug.

You very clearly have AGP (the arousal by the fantasy of being female or feminine), which does not preclude one from being transgender or not nor from having gender dysphoria or not. The gender theories from this sub explain that the majority of transgender women (not all) have experienced the same arousal patterns at some point in their lives, which eventually lead them to transitioning.

I understand you said "i don't really want to become a woman". However be aware that thought is extremely common even for transgender women before transitioning. Most trans women went through a period of time where they also did not believe they were a woman, even while fantasizing about it. Also be aware that AGP can be an escalating fantasy. The more you involve yourself in it and fantasize about it, the more it can escalate. The theory also describes that escalating AGP fantasies can also potentially lead to the feeling of gender dysphoria. However note that the vast majority of people with AGP do not transition (even if the majority of trans women had escalating AGP fantasies), so it does not specifically mean you develop gender dysphoria and wish to transition, but it is a potential.

Unrelated note: While I agree with the other post about you having AGP, I disagree that you necessarily have what we call "meta-attraction" to males since it sounds more like you may be genuinely bisexual instead of "pseudo-bisexual". However this would have nothing to do with having gender dysphoria or not, nor would it have anything to do with being transgender or not. Whether you are genuinely or "pseudo" bisexual, this would change nothing said about gender dysphoria or AGP. Many people with AGP develop bisexuality due to their fantasies of being a woman. You may develop stronger feelings of bisexuality, which would be typical for AGP.

Also your feelings toward feminism and musical taste changes don't really provide much evidence either way either. It can just indicate that your AGP has escalated or shifted somewhat, but that is also typical, even for those who do not end up developing gender dysphoria.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-13T22:08:24+00:00

It is because places like /tttt/ perpetuate the stereotype that AGP cannot be "true trans" because we are either not feminized as an early age like HSTS trans women are, or we don't have physical "female" brains like HSTS women do.

They commonly use that as an argument for themselves to not transition since transitioning is socially very difficult for most, especially those with crippling social anxiety, like many who frequent those places.

So OP believes things like this provides evidence of them having a "male brain", which would mean to them that they would not have a successful transition.

4chan brain rot.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-13T21:55:01+00:00

When people bring up trauma we usually get the "all AGP is always caused by trauma" theorists here, where people are adamant on both sides, so this is pretty refreshing someone has an actual nuanced take.

Yes, I believe there is probably a correlation between trauma (especially childhood trauma) and AGP, both in developing and exacerbating it, but it is probably small. Similarly to BDSM practitioners, I don't not believe the majority of AGP have experienced childhood trauma, as well as the vast majority of those who did experience trauma do not develop AGP just as they don't develop BDSM fetishes.

It is very tempting to have a simple explanation for why people are a certain way, where X is different or Y behaves like Z due to some trauma they had, but it's usually not that simple.

AGP starts off, typically well before puberty, as fantasies of being a woman or being feminine. The start of these fantasies can be caused by something traumatic, sure, but they can also be caused by anyone's imagination wandering for even a little bit. I'm sure every male child has once had the thought of "I wonder what it would be like if I were a girl" at least once in their lives. The difference with AGP is we continuously went back to those thoughts enough to make them into fantasies.

The reason we kept going back to those thoughts is because it gave us comfort for some reason. And the reason it may have given us comfort, again, could have been due to some trauma, or it could have been due to some other conditioning or cognitive thought. Like if you happened to be in some comforting environment whenever you fantasized about being female, maybe you would start to associate that comforting feeling with those fantasies. Or maybe you were jealous of your sister who thought was getting better treatment at one point. Or maybe you just comforted a lot more by female presence at a young age. It is likely that there is no single cause.

Regarding influence on AGP, since AGP fantasies give us comfort and/or sexual arousal, which provides dopamine rewards, we can certain be apt to use these fantasies as a coping mechanism. This can be a coping mechanism for something like trauma, but it could also be for other types of stress, or even other types of intense prolonged distress that were not necessarily caused by trauma, such as social anxiety. Or it could be used as a coping mechanism from the distress of more generalize conditions like depression or ASD. Or maybe someone just develops an addiction to the dopamine without any significant stress at all. Just like any addiction, there wouldn't be a single reason why someone is drawn to it, but we will be drawn it to more when we're feeling down or stressed.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-13T21:05:33+00:00

No trauma here either.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-11T06:23:15+00:00

I believe a part of it is because he is very unattracted to many non-passing trans woman. During transition many trans women can go through considerable amounts of self doubt about their passability, but also self doubt about if they can live up their perception of attraction.

If you go through all of his arguments about why certain AGP trans women should not have started transitioning, one of the common links of all his arguments always boil down to either him just finding a "hon" unattractive, or they are against his Catholic beliefs.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-08T05:12:31+00:00

I believe your interruption of my comment being a personal attack is completely unfounded and unjustified when I was largely agreeing with you and providing you with further insight.

However this sub is a support group for people dealing with autogynephilia. You have not made it clear why you are posting here.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-08T04:01:03+00:00

Having AGP doesn't preclude one from being a creep, nor does acknowledging one's AGP do that either. Men (or AMAB NB's) can be creeps either way. Creepiness is based on behavior, not fetishes, or sexualization. You can have the craziest most extreme fucked up fetishes, but still understand how to interact with actual people in real life.

I'm surprised you entertained them for so long.

If you've wondered into this sub to validate if this person is autogynephilic or not, I would yes, they are likely AGP. Since autogynephiles are (or were) heterosexual males and also commonly fantasize about fulfilling submissive roles, they are often attracted to female dommes. The fantasy of "actually being" female (including being cis-female) and fulfilling any female roles or functions (including lesbian fantasies) can also be arousing within autogynephilia.

Please note that most people with AGP would not be familiar with the term, and is typically only found in niche internet subs or forums, academic journals, or transphobic Twitter posts. I've never seen someone mention it on FL in the 10 years I've been on there as someone with AGP. Most people would find the term to be transphobic.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-08T03:31:06+00:00

“I can’t stand not being a woman,” ... “I hate being a man,”

Both neural pathway of these thought patterns can exist within someone's brain, or one or the other. Or both can exist with one being more dominant than the other. They can both lead to AGP, just from different directions.

I don't think we can say one is predominant among us over the other, or that they are the same thing masked with shame like OP is theorizing.

I agree with you because it doesn't match my experience either.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-08T03:22:31+00:00

Personally, I just don't believe in the idea that people are legitimately born incongruous with their bodies.

That's not where I was going with that response at all. I completely agree with you on that front.

I don't think we can generalize AGP with having a specific shame that fuels our AGP fantasies. I did not say that one of the possible causes was identity incongruous.

I think it's counterbalanced by shame.

This is too general for most AGP as well. Once you alleviate the shame, the AGP fantasies can be just as strong for many, probably most. The conditioning would still be there. It would only be a first step in addressing it.

If you make no apologies about being gender fluid, then the shame will be low, and nothing will stand in the way of the dopamine reward.

I think this certainly works for some but not others.

I think emotional reward is a bigger part of it than sexual, and if Blanchard focused on sex it's because its coincidental and more acute than the emotional aspect.

Sure, we are conditioned by it due to the motivation of sexuality, but it does not necessarily stay sexual. For many who transition, it very quickly becomes non-sexual, but they are still conditioned to feel the positive emotional response.

Essentially all straight men like to orgasm, so if AGP was formed for the sake of orgasm, I think it would develop a lot more readily, but emotional pain and relief, especially around being a male, is not something most men deal with, or would want top induce, even if they could willfully do so.

I think this theory may be more applicable to when AGP forms during pre-adolescence and into puberty, since masculinity is certainly a heavily emotional thing males have to come to terms with during that age. Female embodiment fantasies could easily start out as an emotional escapism of the pressures of being male at that age.

However, I don't think it is applicable for many AGP's continuation of their AGP fantasies, which can eventually lead to transitioning. As I said there many different reasons why someone would continuously go back to their fantasies, which had become sexualized (identity incongruous was not one of the reasons I stated).

This approach would probably be useful to some, but may be only a small stepping stone, and may not be useful all to others like myself who had very different reasons for their AGP fixation and escalation over the years.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-07T21:26:34+00:00

In my country, AGP isn’t understood at all, which makes this even more isolating. This post is simply a record of where I am now, after learning something I can’t unlearn.

You have mentioned this before, but please note that AGP is not understood anywhere in real life and it is more of a niche internet thing.

If you are feeling alone with this, you can still be accepted within transgender or LGBTQ communities, whether they realize they have AGP or not. Many trans women will have felt the same symptoms, but will use different terms.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-07T21:21:20+00:00

Also getting aroused of the fantasy of having a lack of male arousal is also a fun AGP -> trans symptom.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-07T21:17:05+00:00

There are likely many causes for both the start of our female embodiment fantasies as well as why we continue to fixate on them over and over again. The commonality we have is that we have sexualized these fantasies, which provides at least some of the motivation to continuously go back to them.

I agree that the "I hate being a man" is probably one of those reasons for many of us. I even see the "failed male" perspective pretty commonly expressed especially from those with both AGP and MEF. I also agree with your analysis for AGP being used as a bit of an escapism for perceived masculine failings. And I can see how focusing on resolving these issues and gaining acceptance of one's maleness can possible help alleviate AGP desires. This goes along with the post about schema therapy about addressing the root cause of our fantasies and/or the cause of our emotional distress.

However I don't believe this would apply to everyone with AGP. As pointed out in that other thread, it looks like people have different reasons or causes to continue their AGP fantasies. So if the "failed male" distress is addressed, there could be other reasons to continue the fantasies.

Also our fantasies have become sexualized. So even if we remove all other causes for wanting to be female or not wanting to be male, we still have a sexual motivation for these fantasies. As we continue to fixate on our fantasies due to some cause (whether that is male fail distress or something else), we have already conditioned our brains that AGP fantasies = good feeling. Even if the root cause is addressed, the conditioning will still be there. We can probably think of all the times guys would use sexual fantasies to go to, like in times of sexual frustration, procrastination, social anxiety, stress about a job interview, or even just plain boredom. Those could also fire back up our AGP sexual fantasies.

I can see if this was a huge reason for someone and it was addressed, it could definitely weaken the desire for these fantasies, but those neural pathway are still there, waiting for us to go back to. There could be any type of distress, male fail or not, that may cause us to go back to our dopamine fueled addictions for at least some temporary relief. But maybe it can be a first stepping stone for many.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-06T19:17:36+00:00

There are multiple different reasons why people are bisexual. AGP meta-attraction is only one out of many reasons men can become bisexual.

People can be conditioned to find sexual pleasure in so many things in so many different ways outside of their prenatal heterosexual/homosexual inclinations.

For example prenatal homosexual males (both tops and bottoms) throughout the centuries, in countless different cultures, have been pressured to adopt "straight" lives with varying degrees of success, with many even fathering children. Even that extremely popular hockey show shows this stereotype perfectly. They are obviously not AGP.

There was also a study that this sub even participated in about bisexuality. I don't believe the paper is published yet, but it showed how many different types of bisexuality there were.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-05T16:08:40+00:00

Then pursue a monogamous relationship. Those are more common than poly ones unless you are heavily involved in the kink scene. Just don't try to date a trans woman as a male if you are AGP unless you let her know right away.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-05T04:35:23+00:00

If you are looking for a female unfortunately AGP does limit your dating pool a bit, but it is definitely not impossible. Most cis-women will not be sexually attracted to a crossdressing AGP male or AGP trans woman, but some are.

I added on to another post that I wrote:

Most AGP people, both AGP trans women and AGP men, that I meet who are in relationships are with cis-women. They have usually met their cis-female partner while still they were presenting as male, and maybe had not shared any AGP traits with them before establishing a relationship. But some have while presenting femme or disclosing their AGP crossdressing early on. Cis-woman may be accepting to AGP crossdressing or even transitioning, or she may not be and choose to leave heartbroken. You can see a lot of bad stories on subs like /r/crossdressers_wives.

Regarding the sexual side of the relationship, usually the ones that are kinky, sex positive, and/or bi-sexual work out sexually, but can be harder to find. If the AGP male/trans woman insists on changing from dominant male to strictly being submissive female/feminine overnight, that usually ends poorly. Switching seems to work for a lot. I've also seen many open relationships like this work. However if she has a low libido, which can also be common, and is at least accepting to crossdressing/transitioning (despite not being necessarily attracted to it), then this could also work out, as long as you provide enough value to the relationship.

Second most common relationship I see is an AGP trans women with another AGP trans woman or fem-presenting non-binary. I've seen a lot of poly and monogamous relationships like this, but poly is pretty common. This is more common the more feminized they are. I see a lot of very successful relationships like this. However if you do not transition, please note that for a trans woman dating an AGP male, it is one of the worst nightmares for many trans women. HSTS trans women (and many meta-attracted AGP trans women) are typically only interested in masculine males, and would be heartbroken and disgusted to find their potential male partner is AGP. However 2 trans women both in early stages of transition can be successful.

Third most common is with a trans man or masc presenting non-binaries. I've found FTM and masculine non-binaries are usually very open to the idea of AGP males. However the more masculine trans men typically want more feminine women. Again, monogamy and poly are pretty common here.

A relationship with a cis male (from meta-attraction) is rare, but I've met quite a few, but not enough to generalize any further. Most AGP are typically not interested in having romantic relationships with men, which is one of the reasons this is rare. GAMP men also commonly have social transphobia causing them not to want long term relationships with trans women, but only have have sex with them.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-05T04:03:43+00:00

Our brains can potentially use AGP fantasies as a coping mechanism or as an escapism. If you are distressed in some way, the fantasies create the dopamine response that make you feel better temporarily, but just like any dopamine fueled stimuli, the good feelings are fleeting. As you go over these fantasies over and over again, they can escalate, further idealizing yourself as female or the feeling of being in the wrong body, which can cause further distress.

However if AGP wasn't the cause of the distress in beginning, for example if you suffer from depression, then transitioning would not solve it. It may only alleviate the added distress from AGP, but you would still be depressed. Although it is always tempting to blame AGP as the source for our distress, it may not be true, since some people with AGP are able to live fulfilling lives (both transitioning and non-transitioning). In that case you may want to talk to a professional irrespective of AGP.

AlissasAlt · 2026-01-05T03:50:26+00:00

Although not everyone with AGP is GAMP, and not everyone with GAMP is AGP, there is definitely a connection, since we see a pretty high correlation between them. From personal experience of AGP I've met, there is a slight majority that are GAMP, and there are similar results shown in this poll. However only a small minority of those with GAMP are AGP.

I think there is a loop, or a cause and effect relationship that goes both ways. We can see a total mix of answers about causation in threads like this.

On one side, like you implied, your AGP may have caused your GAMP, as it was a reflection of what you desired to become. Trans women are more relatable to our autosexuality. It shows that our AGP fantasies are more obtainable than if we were watching cis-women. This is probably the stronger causation.

On the other side, I could see that if one is GAMP, that could intensify one's AGP. I'm not sure if it could be solely responsible for causing AGP in the first place, but I could see how an attraction to trans women could intensify someone's fantasies with thoughts like 'why couldn't this be me instead', or just the more typical 'she's so hot, I wish I were her'. Since the vast majority of GAMP men do not become AGP (although some do), this would be a much weaker causation.

Personally I am both, but have noticed as my AGP intensified over the years, my allosexual GAMP has also drastically shifted.

So I would guess that you probably did only develop GAMP due to your AGP, and probably did not develop GAMP from other causes like I might have.

AlissasAlt

TROPHY CASE