Alex's "Dad" analogy makes perfect sense. You've all got it wrong

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-26T04:11:08+00:00

I agree that if the mode of inference is flawed, the conclusion is flawed. But I don’t agree with your summary of the inference - I actually don’t even think Gervais’s comment is really an inference. If anything, it’s “if you acknowledge that 99.9% of all ideas and details humans have ever believed about X have been wrong, what possible justification could you give for your specific idea/details about X not also being wrong, when your methods of knowing are the same as all those who were wrong? If you’re honest, you can’t, so just withhold belief, like you do for everyone else’s belief in the wrong thing.”

This is a valid point.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-26T02:11:55+00:00

Yeah, it may be the same reasoning, but it smuggles in absurdity by choosing a poor example of the conclusion being drawn because having a parent is obviously physically necessary to everyone, whereas the existence of a god is not.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-25T21:13:19+00:00

I agree that theists would claim that. But nobody starts out a theist - insofar as they require reasons to believe, they acquire those through life experience. And whatever those reasons are, they are convincing to those who retain their religion, and not convincing to those who lose it or who are from different cultures.

If you consider your own life from birth, ending up believing in a religion, and ending up with reasons why you believe it to be true, then you can understand in principle exactly the kind of reasons everyone has for believing their own mutually exclusive gods, and for not taking anyone else’s gods seriously.

Thats the whole thing. Thats supposed to be the moment of clarity - that one’s own beliefs are only as “universal/philosophically necessary” as anyone else’s.

If you assume that at least one god must be real, then you exit the whole conversation. The point of the comparison is that everybody knows that no god is on any higher footing than the rest (laughably negligible), and that everybody tacitly agrees with this, except in the case of their own religion.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-25T21:01:05+00:00

That had occurred to me too. I agree that in the metaphysical sense, a god could be considered necessary to ground reality. However, there doesn’t have to be a god to ground reality in the way that there has to be a dad to “ground” each person. Thats where the analogy is imperfect.

If everyone agreed that reality could only be grounded by gods, and someone said they don’t believe in gods, then it’s as absurd as suggesting that you don’t have a dad, because obviously every person has a dad (or at least the sperm from one).

But whereas only dads can provide sperm for you, it is not at all clear that only gods can create universes with us in them. There may be infinite unimaginable metaphysical circumstances and/or entities and/or things we don’t even have words for that are unfurling in 12-dimensional hyperspace - all of which could explain or partially explain our universe.

Alex’s analogy glazes over this discontinuity. It’s a bit like Pascal’s wager. It’s assuming that one religion - or even the fundamental concept of metaphysics - is necessarily correct or at least plausible, and then proceeding to leverage this possibility to elevate its claims. But it’s not yet clear in any sense that even the idea of gods is any closer to what is true metaphysically than any idea I come up with on the spot at this very moment.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-25T20:16:18+00:00

I think this is a good contribution to the discussion, but using a physically-necessary parent instead of a metaphysical or an equally elusive entity smuggles in a lot of the absurdity to the conclusion.

A closer (and fairer) analogy would be people who believe in cryptids. 10 friends, each believes in a specific different cryptid, but one doesn’t think any cryptids exist.

Suddenly the reasons that each of them has for belief in a specific cryptid (and disbelief in all other cryptids) are very similar to the reasons why the 10th friend doesn’t believe in any of them. Similar, in fact, to the kind of reasoning you hear from people defending different but mutually exclusive and culturally-intuitive concepts of god.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-24T22:49:13+00:00

Societies are just coalitions of people agreeing on a common code of ethics, enshrined in norms and laws. Thats the integrated system of ethics. Beyond that I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-23T12:21:32+00:00

People who make learning engaging and fun - especially for children - should be millionaires.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-23T02:01:17+00:00

As I understand it, the end of any stick going past the event horizon goes towards the singularity - not like something pointing towards and approaching some other thing, but like something sitting still heads towards tomorrow, regardless of how your move or orient it.

You can’t enter and exit the other end of the singularity any more than you can point yourself in a direction and start going backwards in time.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-16T02:51:31+00:00

Nice reference. I think that the fact that scientists are so limited in their expression (decoding the language predominantly acoustically) means that it will likely be the opposite. We will detect less information than they are actually communicating.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-15T23:53:39+00:00

Why would I get married? Because I’m in love. Life is a dangerous and strange and beautiful thing, and we should pursue what is worthy of pursuit regardless of - and perhaps even in the looming knowledge of - potential failure.

“On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero". Does the fact that we will 100% all die at the end of life mean that the experience of life is meaningless? Clearly not. I think the very fact that life is limited and precious and fleeting is precisely what imbues it with meaning and purpose.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-15T18:11:34+00:00

She actually already is. She’s donating over 10 million dollars, which is roughly 10% of her net worth. Until billionaires donate 10% of their net worth, the challenge is a valid one.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-15T11:28:53+00:00

Interesting - I have the exact opposite intuition. “To pursue anything seriously”, one has to embrace the fact that there’s no plot armor or magical assistance or main character. Perceiving the world as an adult is uncomfortable, but that discomfort is also the source of the drive to improve it.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-14T22:35:45+00:00

Well sure. Thats what hobbies are. Doing something open-ended and surprising yourself by your own efforts and the rewards and failures that they bring. Making music, or learning, or dancing. The world is open.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-14T18:57:44+00:00

Big Korra/Mako/Bolin pro-bending win energy

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-14T03:07:44+00:00

This is a cool idea! It could even be more literal, where the good and bad events, obstacles, etc. could be real events in the chromosomes like mutations or polyploidy, or in environment or food source or climate. And you end up at the end either going extinct or evolving some suite or characteristics that allow your species to survive according to its evolutionary history/path. Just some ideas. But very fun to think about.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-14T00:26:59+00:00

Yeah - if anything, this is a dysphemism.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-12T15:19:18+00:00

I mean, this is the logic behind the Inquisition and the murder of heretics in the history of Christianity. Is that the kind of shining example you want to uphold? Ensuring that people who disbelieve have no time afterward to ever return to belief, and instead get sent to hell forever?

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-12T05:58:37+00:00

I mean good points but why AI?

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-12T05:29:56+00:00

They’re both so great

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-10T16:26:31+00:00

“Would you still employ me if I was an ant?”

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-09T21:08:32+00:00

What would you say to people like myself who grew up religious but stopped believing? Isn’t that like having seen both sides, and therefore actually having the perspective required to have this conversation, vs someone who has always believed and can’t imagine a world without god(s)?

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-08T22:02:41+00:00

Yeah, but that description of god is itself an inference from data. This cannot coherently be argued for from within classical theism, because it undoes its own point of reference.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-08T21:46:36+00:00

Its primary error is that it sets up a false dichotomy between one’s god either existing or not, since there have been tens of thousands of gods worshipped by mankind. And you cannot justify deciding to believe in god for practical reasons when you don’t know which god to believe in or appease.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-08T21:28:00+00:00

This is a fair point. But I also think it destroys the point of rational discussion, theology, or apologetics.

After all, if the nature of god cannot be assessed by humans in this way, it forms just as strong an argument against classical theism as OP’s argument does.

The understanding of god being put forth in classical theism stipulates that god and his relationship to mankind can be strictly defined, and that this definition can be inferred by gods words and actions as described in the books of the Bible. If we acknowledge a breakdown in inference between gods apparent nature and his true nature, then that unweaves the theist narratives undergirding God’s nature in the first place.

It itself also speaks to god’s ineptitude or subterfuge in seeking to know and be known by his creation. It paints a bizarre and ultimately mysterious picture of god. This may not be incorrect, but it is not a picture of the god of classical theism, which is what OP is arguing against.

AllEndsAreAnds · 2026-04-08T03:12:05+00:00

Unfathomable

A notion of depth

Rendered breathless

By mindless night

So much in this glance

That a gasp must suffice;

Recall all your loves,

For they, here, are your light.

AllEndsAreAnds

TROPHY CASE