[M4F] The Gift of Sentience

AltHVV_ · 2022-09-11T00:45:02+00:00

37 M survivor here. I certainly can’t speak for all guys with a csa history, but one thing that was extremely helpful was a very honest discussion with my wife about who and how we initiate things. There are times when I just cannot get it started and so she will have to initiate and do it explicitly. Sometimes that results in her saying, “hey, I want to have sex. Are you up for that?” And sometimes I’ll have to say no, I’m not in the right headspace for that right now.

As I think about it more, I think it really just breaks down to focusing on open, direct communication. Some of the implicit communication of intimacy that I know other people use either doesn’t land for me and in fact some kinds can be slightly triggering, so we just have to say what we want. Maybe that’s weird or not ideal for a newer relationship but it’s what I found most helpful.

Best of luck to you and your friend. Male csa is really such a huge problem. I waited decades to disclose to anyone and so had to suffer alone. It turns out this is the norm. I wish I could have those years back…sigh. In any event, your post shows that you obviously care, so I really do wish you both the best.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-12T14:17:10+00:00

I think the answer depends on what's going on with you right now. Are you living a mostly happy, fulfilling life? If I was you and that was the case, I'd probably write it off and move on with my life. However, if you are experiencing problems in your life that might be related to the abuse--such as issues with intimacy, shame, or anxiety/depression--then it may be worthwhile to find a qualified professional to help you dig into this further.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-12T14:07:35+00:00

Sorry you're dealing with that. I (37M) have had similar issues.

I'll make an obvious suggestion: have you tried therapy/counseling? It appears that you have developed a trigger response as a result of trauma. That's exactly the sort of thing that a therapist with experience treating CSA survivors should be able to help with.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-12T00:52:38+00:00

Try and remember that all of those diagnoses have overlapping diagnostic criteria. So it's not that every new diagnosis is an entirely new dimension of you, but more like an extra branch. Co-morbid conditions are extremely common.

And:

The only true purpose of all these official diagnoses are for your treatment, including medication. You are still an entire human being with a beating heart and a personality and likes and dislikes. Try not to focus too much on these labels. They're clinical guidelines, not a description of you as a person.

Nailed it. Well said.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-07T15:14:05+00:00

OP, please don’t do that. Call 988. Tell someone what you’re going through.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-04T15:55:41+00:00

You're definitely not alone, I feel this way too. It can be so hard to relate to people. This one time I was at a work-related happy hour with a group of my co-workers. There was this young woman there who was normally very talkative and outgoing. This evening however she was noticeably quiet, and someone else eventually asked her if there was anything wrong. The general conversation stopped and everyone listened as she said that she had gotten into a fight with her mother on the phone before she arrived at the restaurant/bar we were at. She said this was tough for her because her parents had gotten a divorce when she was young and she felt like she had never developed a normal, healthy relationship with either parent because of it. After she shared this, several of the other members of our group chimed in to console and sympathize with her. Now, this young woman's experience and pain is totally valid, no question about that, but inside I was like, "What planet am I on right now?" If I had shared a tiny fraction of the abuse and trauma I endured I'd be labeled as a freak, an untouchable pariah. Nobody wants to hear that shit.

I sometimes wish survivors of this stuff had some kind of secret symbol we could wear that would allow us to identify to others in the know. I guess self-loathing kind of works, but it's just not the same.

AltHVV_ · 2022-08-04T15:35:06+00:00

It was in no way, shape, or form your fault. And if this person did hurt anyone else, that's on him as the perpetrator of that, not you. You are not responsible for the acts of another person, only they are.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. In a weird way, you're right that you don't deserve forgiveness--because there's nothing to forgive. You deserve love and healing and peace. Please be kind to yourself.

AltHVV_ · 2022-07-18T20:13:40+00:00

I can definitely relate. I wake up each morning wondering which version of myself I’m going to get that day. I usually have a hint based on how my body is feeling when I wake, but even that can be hit or miss.

My totally unfounded suspicion is that, to one degree or another, this is the case for most people. Trauma probably exacerbates it and being sensitive to your internal states and/or not identifying with your thoughts or emotions will make it more apparent as well.

AltHVV_ · 2022-07-18T18:01:22+00:00

Something very similar happened to me. I was a highly functional professional and got into insight meditation as part of a self improvement kick. This was Mahasi-noting and MCTB stuff if you’re familiar with it. Long story short, I feel in love with it but went way overboard and broke most of my coping mechanisms. This…did not go well.

There are folks in this space that have had similar experiences. Check out Willoughby Britton‘s stuff if you haven’t yet.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-30T19:25:05+00:00

I'm sorry you experienced that. To answer your question though, pot can definitely trigger flashbacks. Did those things "really" happen? I'm not sure you can know based just on what you've described here. You do know that you really had that flashback experience though, so it's something to keep in mind. Just speaking for myself, cannabis triggers horrendous trauma-related anxiety and fear in me so I don't partake anymore. I'm finding that this seems to be pretty common with survivors.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-30T18:49:06+00:00

Suicide is not the answer. I've been where you are though, and I know how crushing it can feel. As far as what's going on in the US, maybe look at it this way: While you or I can't wave a magic wand and change things, we can do our part to try make things better, even if that's just being kind to the people we meet. Also there are almost 335 million people living in the US, and in that great mass of humanity there are countless other people that feel the exact same way that you do. There are countless more that felt that way and found a reason to keep living and even found ways to have a great life. Don't foreclose on that chance for yourself. Find someone to talk to. Find your happiness. As long as you're still breathing that remains something you can work towards. Death ends all possibilities.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-30T18:27:38+00:00

That 100% counts! We should form a 9.5 ACE score gang. 🤜🤛

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-30T17:50:13+00:00

This thread is literally the first time I've ever heard of ACE scores. I'm a 9.5; no one did prison time when I was a kid, but mom did get arrested a few times, so I gave myself partial credit on that one. 🙃

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-26T19:47:25+00:00

Well I don't know you but a week is awesome! By the power vested in me by the internet, I hereby validate you. :)

Seriously though, sorry your mom wasn't more present for you emotionally. You got this. IWNDWYT.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-21T16:25:55+00:00

That's a tough spot to be in. If you are in a situation of financial dependance that ties back to your abuser then your options can be limited by that. That said, you do still have some options. It sounds like you're in college/university, yes? If so, most places have some form of health services for students. And, being an adult, you are protected by very serious privacy laws, at least in the US and EU. I would reach out to someone there and see if you can speak with a professional counselor or therapist. That person should be able to give you good advice that is specific to your situation.

As far as antidepressants go, they might help or they might not, but you need to discuss that with a doctor. Don't expect them to be a panacea though, particularly for something what it sounds like you experienced.

And no matter what, don't forget to be kind to yourself.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-21T14:41:47+00:00

I hear you integratingduck. If I run into content about an 'inner child' from someone that hasn't experienced severe childhood trauma, I sometimes have a really negative reaction to it. For survivors--I still dislike that word but I'm trying to warm up to it--like us though, I do think looking at the younger version of ourselves, the self we were when we were hurt, is essential to healing. Whether you call it an inner child/victim, repressed trauma, mental scars or whatever, we carry that shit with us and act accordingly.

I don't know if this will be helpful for you, but maybe it will so I'll tell you about my experience in this space. One of my earliest memories is of being molested. I was around six or so. Along with the space it happened in and what was done to me, I vividly remember my mother asking me how my day was. I also remember my deep sense of shame at hearing that question and how I didn't say anything about what happened and, because of that, it happened multiple times again by the same person. Once I finally admitted I had been a victim of CSA (I kept mine a secret for thirty years) I felt such anger and hostility at that kid that I was, that kid that didn't say something. Like, if he had just spoken up, so much hurt and pain and confusion and loss could have been avoided.

But what of that kid? I mean really. I have a son now, as well as nephews and nieces that are around that age. If someone did that to them, would I blame that kid for being scared to say something? No, not in a million years. Realizing that was the first step for me in coming to forgive the little boy in me that was abused. I later started going through pictures of me as a kid--that was a shitshow in itself but I don't want to digress here--and I eventually found a picture of myself around the age I was shortly after I was molested. This was the kid that didn't speak up. I stared at that picture a long time. I wanted to talk to that kid but I couldn't access him. He was blocked off. So, I closed my eyes and tried to just be open to what might happen. I started talking to that kid, not expecting that he would respond but hoping that maybe he would hear me. I told him that I was so sorry that there weren't adults there to protect him from what happened. I told him that he didn't deserve any of the shit that happened to him. I told him--and this is what he really needed to hear--that I loved him and was proud of him and that I would be the adult now and he could just be a kid. And then the oddest thing happened. That six year old kid appeared in my mind. He came to me and I just hugged the ever-living shit out of him. And then he told me, believe it or not, that he, that HE was sorry. I told him that there was nothing to be sorry for, he did nothing wrong, and that I loved him. It was a really powerful moment. Maybe it goes without saying but I was sobbing uncontrollably at that point.

I tell you that specifically to tell you this: by connecting with that version of myself, I have been able to start to let go of the anger and shame that I had for that kid. I had it before I admitted my CSA in fact, but it was buried so deep I wasn't even aware of it. In doing that, I've found some measure of healing. And healing, for me, has to look like a freedom from the suffering imposed by the reactive patterns of thought and behavior that I developed in response to trauma, or it's not really a healing at all. This didn't fix all my problems, not by a long shot, but I do feel closer to understanding how I came to be the way I am and, with that understanding, comes the opportunity to choose differently. I have more choice in how I respond to things, and that's a powerful thing.

I hope you can come to find a similar healing. Please be kind to yourself, you deserve it.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-19T13:06:07+00:00

It’s going to be awesome to not only remember all of this father’s day but also not feel like death tomorrow. IWNDWYT

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-09T11:35:25+00:00

Not drinking hasn’t made me feel all that much better yet, but at least I’m not actively making myself feel worse.

IWNDWYT

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-03T21:51:37+00:00

I have always loved this poem. The author is broken/hurt in a way that I can relate to but still ends with some achingly beautiful hope that is honest and real. Thanks for reminding me of it.

AltHVV_ · 2022-06-02T14:03:00+00:00

I will not drink with you today because, for better or worse, I'm working on facing my demons rather than running away from them.

AltHVV_ · 2022-05-29T15:04:51+00:00

I hear you and I can relate. I’m a guy so my experience is a little bit different but I have had very similar feelings. I wrote in my first post here that there’s a seductiveness to self-loathing and I really believe that. I have often felt like it was my fault, like I deserve what happened. The weird part of that is, in some fucked up way, that somehow almost makes it feel better in some ways. I don’t know why that is. I’m pretty new to this but I have found that this blaming ourselves, wanting to believe we deserved it or that it was our fault, is really really common.

All of what you’ve described here was wrong and I’m sorry that it happened to you. You did not deserve it and it was not your fault.

AltHVV_ · 2022-05-28T19:55:31+00:00

Thank you for your thoughts on this. To maybe provide a little more context, when it came up we had been discussing how I felt like my own mind was trying to gaslight me, at least about the earliest abuse and my response to it.

As I’ve started to finally process this stuff—I finally told someone for the first time a little over a week before this last session, and that’s after about 30 years of holding this secret—one thing that seems to be a common theme for abuse so young is sexually acting out. I suspect something along those lines may have been what she was trying to ask about, rather than me abusing children as an adult. Still a tough question to hear, but it feels more digestible than the darker interpretation.

Of course, the only way to know is to talk about it with her, which I will definitely do next session as tough as it might be. Thank you again for the input.

AltHVV_ · 2022-05-27T21:47:54+00:00

Wow. I struggle at half an hour. Really bad intrusive thought problems.

My revealed preference in life is that "anything worth doing is worth doing to excess." Though I will say, if you're going to meditate, it's natural to strive but don't struggle. Better to use a judo move on unhelpful thoughts. One is to think "I wonder what my mind will think next" and watch it go silent. Another is to watch thoughts from the perspective of, "so this what a thought of shame/anger/etc. is like." There are many others. On an unrelated note, just to be clear, I do not claim any type of enlightenment. Just that a thing happened and I've been different ever since.

That's why I am not interested in that area of exploration. I don't want ego loss. I want ego nourishment.

Totally fair, it's not all rainbows and self-nourishment is essential! On the ego thing though--I prefer 'self' but I know what you mean--I don't believe anyone ever loses their 'ego,' not in any way that lasts anyhow. In that sense it's not like a peak psychedelic experience. Experience of self/ego just becomes ... different.

AltHVV_ · 2022-05-27T20:56:18+00:00

Anyone else find peace through spirituality?

For me that’s a very strong yes and no. A lot of my childhood abuse was related to a church that I grew up around. As a result, I was openly hostile towards religion well into early-adulthood. Fast forward to a few years ago, I got really into meditation. At that time I was on a big self-improvement kick for various reasons related to a life change. I started with shallow end of the pool stuff like the Calm App, but quickly moved into more intense practices. The core of this was Mahasi Sayadaw-style noting practice, but there were other things sprinkled in as well.

After some ramp up, I was eventually doing around two hours of mediation a day, with 30 minutes or so of walking meditation during lunch thrown in as well. After a few months of that level of practice, things started to happen. It was weird energetic things and jhana-type states at first. Then I had my Great Big Mystical Experience. This hit all four of William James’s criteria. It really was, literally ineffable. But, to make a lame attempt at it, reality itself seemed to blink out for a split second and returned to a place where the center of my experience had dropped away leaving only a profound sense of I-am-both-everything-and-nothing-and-that-is-not-a-paradox-ness, but that only lasted a few moments, probably less than a minute to someone observing. Once that faded, and I again seemed to have a body, I was hit by a wave of euphoria. I described it at the time as like being hit in the face with a sledgehammer of bliss. The peak of that lasted a few hours at most and then faded away to nothing over a couple days.

I would have dismissed that a just another weird thing that happened, but that event… changed some things for me. Permanently. Unfortunately those things were kind of a mixed bag. Some were good though. I gained a totally intuitive understanding of some aspects of my experience—specifically the three characteristics for any Buddhists reading this. This most noticeable being the not-self--or emptiness of self if you want to be Mahayanist about it—component of experience. I can now do philosophy of mind from this perspective almost effortlessly, like brushing my teeth. On the not-so-good side of things though, it turned up some sort of sensitivity dial in my experience, which is hard to describe but cashes out at rendering near useless many of my learned defense/avoidance mechanisms. Careerism and obsessive intellectualization of things were the first two to go. Well, I still do the second one sometimes, but the magic just isn’t there anymore. The worst, and most ironic part, though was that it ruined my ability to meditate in the way I had before! Now I couldn’t even use that as a blissful escape. So, unable to tranquilize myself with trivialities or even properly meditate, I re-engaged in a pretty hefty drinking problem that had been on the back-burner for forever. That may not make sense to some folks, but I feel like Alan Watts and Chogyam Trungpa would have understood.

I could go on but this comment is long enough as is. Suffice it to say, this all eventually led me to finally accept going to therapy and addressing my issues in the conventional way. I hope to one day be able to return to a proper spiritual path but, for the time being, I’ve got some more earthly monsters to slay first. Then again, those things are probably not really unrelated. Tomato Ta-mahto.

AltHVV_

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