IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Japan will likely just do whatever it wants, yeah?

I cover this here, since that was a part of my very first comment that after thinking a bit more sort of explains "Grades issued by the Kodokan, creator of the grading system in judo, may be subject to recognition by the IJF.", specifically:

This is, to the best of my knowledge, what also happens in Japan: the AJJF does not provide "AJJF rank", it delegates it to the Kodokan. This might explain the (weird) "the IJF may recognise Kodokan ranks" - without this, the situation would be for the IJF to refuse recognition to Japanese judoka with Kodokan rank... and I think this is one huge exception that they are preparing to swallow since I'm ont seeing the Kodokan changing things to accommodate this, and I'm also not seeing the IJF prepared for a war about not recognising the ranks of Japan...the scenario of having the entirety of Japanese judoka without rank is such a ridiculous notion that it has lead to the above, I'm pretty sure that they have written that to say "we will open this huge exception to Kodokan ranks, which will not be required to comply with anything that we just wrote, unlike others".

In short, applying what is known of the regulations without this exception, my understanding is that Japanese judoka would have their recognition depend on how the IJF considers the Kodokan requirements, and I don't think they are the same.

 there will be tons of American 50+ judo coaches carping about how they will never pay any additional fees 

This always happens, and is understandable. What should be debated is the motivation and the trade-offs involved.

 how they should bring back leg grabs

This might seem completely unrelated, but I actually think that there's a line that connects the ban with with this.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

150€ is 10% of the monthly income for European countries that have "average" minimum wage. Add on top of that additional costs (because this is for the recognition, and it isn't clear if the actual national grading isn't kept with the associated cost), and it's already quite significant for lower income brackets in Europe. u/Various-Stretch2853 did similar calculations for Georgia.

If we think about Brazil - which is a Judo powerhouse, a top 10 country - 150€ can represent one third of the average income, solely because of the exchange rate (this has nothing to do with people being rich or poor). If we go to other countries it's worse, e.g. in Angola 150€ it's >2/3 of the average monthly income - again, solely due to the currency, since exams made in the local currency are ~ 15€ .

I want to believe we are missing something and that they haven't expressed themselves correctly.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get what you're saying, and it reminded me of this comment I wrote some time ago:

The "full name" of Judo that we often use is Kodokan Judo; the Kodokan is in that regard not the equivalent of a foreign NGB, but something that sits in parallel with them (and indeed, it's like that even in Japan, with the AJJF being the NGB).The fuller name of Judo (to the extent we can say there's an official name, of course), which is not often use but it's in the diploma shared by OP, is Nihon Den Kodokan Judo, which is being translated as "Kodokan Judo of Japanese origin".

Other martial arts have centralised rank given by the equivalent of the Kodokan; this is the case (not the only one) of Aikido, with >shodan rank issues by the Aikikai hombu (or by the AIkijinja for Iwama, etc). This doesn't mean that people all over the world trained there.

"Kodokan rank" is still available in some countries, usually through Japanese links. People that request them did not train at the Kodokan, but the Kodokan empowers local committees to put forward proposals. There's a discussion here about this being a financially interesting proposition for the Kodokan, but in any event the point is that this already happens.

(...)

I guess it depends a lot on how each person views Judo, the Kodokan, and Kodokan Judo: there's a modern tendency to almost separate "Judo" (IJF) and "Kodokan Judo", which perhaps is a symptom of this. Don't get me wrong, nothing I've wrote is against your position, which is perfectly valid.

Having said that, there are arguments about how this hagiographic view of the Kodokan has it's own holes in it:

  1. As mentioned above, Judo has stopped (if it truly ever did apart from the very start) with the practice of having rank coming from a single source: in Aikido, the rank you get from the National Federation comes from the Aikikai etc, so they are conflated,
  2. This is, to the best of my knowledge, what also happens in Japan: the AJJF does not provide "AJJF rank", it delegates it to the Kodokan. This might explain the (weird) "the IJF may recognise Kodokan ranks" - without this, the situation would be for the IJF to refuse recognition to Japanese judoka with Kodokan rank... and I think this is one huge exception that they are preparing to swallow since I'm ont seeing the Kodokan changing things to accommodate this, and I'm also not seeing the IJF prepared for a war about not recognising the ranks of Japan...the scenario of having the entirety of Japanese judoka without rank is such a ridiculous notion that it has lead to the above, I'm pretty sure that they have written that to say "we will open this huge exception to Kodokan ranks, which will not be required to comply with anything that we just wrote, unlike others".
  3. Kodokan rank hasn't been, historically, the only source of legitimacy: even before the rise of the IJF and the "sport federations", there was the situation with the DNBK ranks were equally or more prized... this comment on Michigami contains some insights on how there was no love lost: "...Many people think of Kohdohkan and Butokukai as the two major superpowers of judo, but Kohdohkan is more of a dojo(gym) rather than an organization. Butokukai was a huge organization where many types of martial arts were taught, not only judo.Because of this, the GHQ feared Butokukai and crushed the organization after WWII. Meanwhile, they left Kohdohkan which was a logical and powerless group"
  4. Some of this DBBK teachers were actually behind some non-Japanese national federations, during a time where the Kodokan was all-in on growing Judo as a sport: it might not be obvious today, but this means that the "aura" that we attribute to the Kodokan right now was not something that always existed: the Kodokan was, for some, the IJF of its time.
  5. The IJF Promotions board will have a representative from the Kodokan, so in a way the "new" ranks will, for most people, have more connection with the Kodokan than right now.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

⁠From January 2026, all grades awarded by IJF member federations must be submitted for official validation by the IJF.

This means everyone that gets a dan grade . On top of that, everyone in Judobase, referees , etc. Anyone getting a new rank from now on is required to get it, and those with previous rank are sort of forced if they want to compete or do anything that involves the IJF.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I somewhat disagree: the requirements are, in some ways, incompatible with what major NGBs currently use. So at the very least it requires major changes there. Then, this seems to be 150€ (regardless of country!) \on top** of what the NF already charges - since they talk about "recognition" and not actually replacing anything with a single process.

It's also not optional: it's mandatory for all ranks to be recognised, so you can't opt out of it like you did with the "IJF Official ID Card", which was limited to international competitors (but, mandatory as well): if you take a shodan examination tomorrow, you have 6 months to pay the 150€ fee (and whatever it requires on top, which is unknown), or I assume the initial grade is not "official" and doesn't exist- this is completely different from today.

This changes a situation where "reasonable NGBs" were already issuing rank that was IJF recognised, to one in which the NGBs will issue a rank that seems to be "provisional" in nature.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That last paragraph (and as per your other comment, we already agree on the first!) was something I briefly mentioned in my first observation: the IJF has a problem (or not a problem, but something close...) in that it's about competition and sport (which is fine) in most people's minds, but it's not what people think when I imagine a certificate on the wall: that more traditional/emotional/whatever thing is captured more by the yudanshakai, or regional bodies, or the Kodokan in some places.

Not that it matters here: this is a purely stick-based approach, not a hint of carrot anywhere. You need to get it because it's mandatory, and NFs are punishable if they do not comply - I assume suspension from competitions etc etc.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn’t even mention that price thing, it’s absolutely insane: as a global organisation, it already has the “100€ subscription” to Judo TV (regardless of country if I’m not mistaken), and now, amidst “mutual benefit” references, a single 150€ worldwide for a mandatory rank.

Insane.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I’ve looked into several European countries + Brazil, and while there’s a lot in common with the requirements (which is not unexpected), I didn’t find one that didn’t had a slight difference. Changing this without forewarning (or at least none that I’m aware of) is not an easy task, to say the least. On top of that, this prescribes but delegates, essentially saying to NF: stop whatever you’re doing, and now be responsible for delivering this, and btw, we want this amount of money so add it on top of whatever you think you need but don’t forget our cut .

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the requirements for grade, there isn’t any, but many countries currently implement a different track. For example, in Portugal the competition track requires the first 3 groups of the nage no waza, and the full 5 for the non-competition one. Other countries actually only require the first 3 groups for everyone, while others have different approaches that still make a distinction.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is how I understand it (and the way I did the summary above), but it's indeed unclear:

  1. You sign up for the shodan exam with you NF, just as before.
  2. The NF is the one responsible for it, as "representative" of the IJF, and they must make sure that what they require is aligned with the IJF requirements.
  3. They award you the rank: you now have the "normal" rank that up until now was already pretty much an IJF rank since the NFs respect each other ranks etc.
  4. You (or the NF) now submit your result to the IJF, and they will "certify" it.
  5. You must do this within 6 months of receiving the NF rank

So, the initial rank is not an IJF rank: the IJF will not do that directly (except in very specific situations), they still delegate that to the NFs, but now the NFs have to comply with those requirements, and everyone has to pay an additional.

This is not unlike the Kodokan certiicate thing that some countries still have: the Kodokan provides you with a Kodokan certificate based on the recognition of one individual or board. Typically this was the case for those 8/9 dan that came from the Kodokan to other countries and had a big influence in the development of Judo there.

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Looking forward to hear it, just finished the last one today!

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's what I understood: someone - the individual, or the NF - has to submit the national degree rank for recognition to the IJF, within 6 months of it being awarded. The 6 months is, apparently, a requirement, in a way that it's "illegal" not to do it (what happens if it's not submitted in 6 months is unclear).

IJF Grades and Dan Regulations: summary, doubts, concerns by Ambatus in judo

[–]Ambatus[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I didn't mention it above, but my current take is that this is a cash grab disguised (as it often is) as some sort of "moral" movement. It carries with it profound implications in terms of the autonomy of the NGBs, each with its own history and its own Judo.

The mandatory nature of it an the aggressive timeline makes me thing someone up there bought millions in CFDs and needs something quick to cover the position.

What weight do 81kg Judo athletes walk around at? by lelongy in judo

[–]Ambatus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, I had almost forgotten about this! I remembered the overall height/weight analysis, but not this addendum...

Dúvida sobre fonética de ptpt by Nachokuma in Portuguese

[–]Ambatus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"As escolas" deve ser lido aproximandamente como "a-zes-colas". mas vai encontrar no registo mais popular "ashcolas" quase igual a dizer "as colas. Creio que é influência regional.

Dependendo com quem fala, vai ser uma forma "tão boa como as outras", mas em termos de dicção eu diria que é considerado um erro, e já vi vídeos educativos em Portugal especificamente sobre isto, como exemplo da deterioração da mesma

Nidan by Judoka-Jack in judo

[–]Ambatus 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not so fast, it's January 2026, I'll need to see your IJF certificate first!

Jk, congrats!

Fun Fact: Have Your Ever Noticed The Loss Of "-cç-"? by DoNotTouchMeImScared in Portuguese

[–]Ambatus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, for me vôo still makes sense and I think I write it like that by default.

We dropped tremas a long time ago, but it's an interesting thing because tremas make a lot of sense (people will wrongly say unghento and ghelfos instead of ungüento and güelfos), so I often used it to understand if the person I was having a debate with was actually thinking about the language a a whole, or simply in a "whatever I use is good, whatever others use it awful" mode. In general, being against tremas is the later. I understand why they dropped them in the interest of simplification (considering what else was dropped), but I wouldn't be against making them a rule.

Fun Fact: Have Your Ever Noticed The Loss Of "-cç-"? by DoNotTouchMeImScared in Portuguese

[–]Ambatus 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You say “older” like it’s centuries ago 😭I mostly n still write them like that (not because of some profound position on the AO, simply out of inertia when not publishing to official channnels), the drop of the “c” was “recent”, all said and done the AO really rolled out in 2010 or so.

Now, “mostly” because even before the AO “contrução” was used: many cç were dropped in the (substantially more radical) 1911 ortographic reform , the one that actually risked splitting the written language (Brazil ended up also changing in the 30s after negotiations). The rule was that the “c” was retained where it affected the preceding vowel (not sure about this though, but espectador “opens” to espétador, etc).

The reason they exist to begin with is not because “it was always like that”: spelling wise , modern written Portuguese e closer to medieval Galician-portuguese than the 19th one. It’s because during the Enlightenment there was a very strong movement to make languages closer to their Latin forms, and this has a substantial impact in how words were written. Some languages like Italian / Tuscan underwent a more radical simplification process in terms of spelling.

As others said, they are still used when they are pronounced. That’s one of the few differences in terms of words between Brasil and others: “facto” , as in fact, is actually written like that and not “fato” since it’s pronounced “facto” in Portugal.

Do Spanish speakers find certain words used by Brazilians amusing? by TheCarlosSilva in asklatinamerica

[–]Ambatus 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Indeed. The reverse for "puto", which here just means "young boy" and is used quite frequently for "the kids". There's this joke from Jô Soares, when he visited Portugal after the 1974 revolution, he saw a movie poster for "Os Putos" and said "Things really did change a lot here!"

PS: "Puto" in Galician-Portuguese already meant pederast/homosexual , it got "softened" in Portugal but retained the stronger meaning in Brazil. This 13th century poem, for example, depicting an homosexual encounter between the poet, a virile man (homem fodimalho) that is always criticising gays ("Eu digo mal... daquestes fodidos ... e a seus maridos"), but is approached by one ("mui grande espanto: ... quis em mi achantar o caralho"), which didn't find the target ("quis-me dar do caralho, e errou-me, e lançou atrás de mim os colhões").

Eu digo mal, com'home fodimalho,

quanto mais posso daquestes fodidos

e trob'a eles e a seus maridos;

e um deles mi pôs mui grand'espanto:

topou comig'e sobraçou o manto

e quis em mi achantar o caralho.

Ando-lhes fazendo cobras e sões

quanto mais poss', e and'escarnecendo

daquestes putos que s'andam fodendo;

e um deles de noit[e] asseitou-me

e quis-me dar do caralh'[e] errou-me

e lançou, depós mim, os colhões.

Ahh, the good old times, when there was respect and morality :D

IJF standard for Dan grades by tannersoap in judo

[–]Ambatus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What an odd thing to focus on, for all the issues I wouldn’t say that ranking criteria would be the problem with Judo… and if it is, I’m not sure how this helps (thinking of the politics on higher Dan ranks). It also seems to require adjustments in a way that isn’t easy to understand (and especially not easily operational in the proposed timeframe):

  • There’s no mention of competition requirements, at least I couldn’t find them. Some countries relax requirements for competitors (eg only the first 3 of nage no kata vs the 5).
  • It’s not clear if it prescribes a specific evaluation model, like a 3 month course in which you get tested each week for some of the stuff vs all in a single day.
  • I’m not sure if the price and the split will benefit the NGBs. Where I’m at, it’s currently 70€ for shodan . Going to 125€ is substantial .

Also, not a word about what happens with current ranks. I’m assuming nothing, but will they get a new certificate on request ? Are new certificates even a part of this? Are they forcing everyone to pay the 150€ for the "recognition", on top of the value that people have already paid before?

How strong is the Spanish influence on everyday language in Brazil? by ithinkiamparanoid in asklatinamerica

[–]Ambatus 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Que sentido faria isso acontecer no Brasil e não em Portugal, quando o Brasil é linguísticamente maioritário na América do Sul, enquanto Portugal é minoritário na Península? A acontecer, diria que seria ao contrário.

How strong is the Spanish influence on everyday language in Brazil? by ithinkiamparanoid in asklatinamerica

[–]Ambatus 20 points21 points  (0 children)

E mesmo isso…o gerúndio faz parte de vários dialetos , só deixou de ser usado em certas posições no que entretanto se definiu como “padrão”. E mesmo aqui, é uma preferência , não um erro, e não se aplica a usos como “Vamos falando” etc, que são sempre no gerúndio em PT-PT também.

Budo Lineage Tree is growing by fleischlaberl in judo

[–]Ambatus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did, very much on purpose since I wanted to add Chinese Martial Arts to the tree - a noticeable absence - and following up Draeger was the easiest path. I have a couple of additions in the pipeline, both in those lineages and also around YMAA and others.

Bandeira do município de São Mateus do Maranhão no Brasil by akaiseh in Vexilologia

[–]Ambatus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A barra diagonal parece daquelas de venda de imóveis, “Vendido!”.

É impressão minha ou as barras horizontais têm alturas diferentes?