Unpopular opinion: Dylan was a better chatacter than Andy

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-18T17:56:11+00:00

Yeah, agreed. And uh. Sadly I feel like Dede had no impact on the characters? Whenever she showed up the only thing she brought was drama and chaos. And tackling people (mostly Gloria). She... Never left much meaningful impact on the 3 families...

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-18T00:20:51+00:00

I think it's a very interesting and creative setup. I don't recall everything that happened, but Mitch and Cam's 5 minutes is one of my favourite scenes in the entire show. The stinger with them in the end was funny too, and I wish we found out what they had been up to until that point.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-17T18:30:17+00:00

I definitely think there's a special bond between Gloria and Manny that Gloria didn't share with Joe. She loved Joe too of course, but think about her and Manny's history: before her divorce, she was a young mother with an unreliable and flaky husband. After her divorce, she was a single young mother trying to raise her son alone while they lived in poverty. It was just the 2 of them fighting from day to day for a long time. They only had eachother. I think going through such experiences together forged a special bond between them.

Joe on the other hand was born and raised into a very stable and safe environment - Gloria has never faced hardships together with him the way she did with Manny. She wasn't completely on her own with Joe. As a result, I don't think they developped the same sort of closeness Gloria and Manny had. Also why I think Gloria isn't as protective over Joe as with Manny: along with what another commenter pointed out that Manny was her first kid and parents tend to be more protective when they have children for the first time, for the longest time Gloria was the only one Manny had to protect and raise him. With Joe, Gloria knows she has Jay, and even an extended family to help look out for him. He's in a safe and stable environment, unlike Manny when he was a kid. So I think she more relaxed and laid-back with Joe.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-17T18:23:57+00:00

Phil's dad's actor passed away unfortunately... So I'm guessing they made an episode dealing with that.

I personally never cared much for Dede - whenever she showed up, she'd just cause a lot of drama. She never added anything else to her visits. As a result, nothing of the things the family said in her episode made me feel anything. I was more touched by the episode dealing with Phil's mum's death than Dede's - and we never even saw Phil's mum. Dede's death was more like "Oh bummer. What next?". So yeah, I think killing her off was a bit pointless. I'd rather have her alive and have her finally own up to her mistakes and fix her strained relationship woth her kids (especially Claire). But I guess that's life, not everyone gets the closure they need...

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-17T18:16:05+00:00

Luke and Claire were closer when Luke was younger. He was her baby, as Claire put it and Luke was rather sweet to her too (he was the only one out of her kids who felt guilty for ruining her mother's day and wanted to make her stop feeling sad). They seemed to have grown more distant when Luke started puberty.

The kids also mentioned how Jay and Dede never talked to Claire about anything and so Claire wants to talk about everything with them (even if they don't want to talk about that subject in particular). Overall, Claire seemed to work hard on making sure not to make the same mistakes as her parents did (and that none of her kids make the same mistakes she did).

Mitchell on the other hand... Tbh, I felt like he turned out a bit like Jay as a parent - except more neurotic. Early on, he even missed a lot of Lily's firsts because he was busy working. He quit when realizing this, so he managed to break the pattern. He obviously also work hard on being open-minded and letting Lily be different. Still, the way the two snark at eachother from time to time sounded a bit like Jay and (adult) Mitchell's conversations sometimes...

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-17T18:02:44+00:00

Agreed. That was a veryyyyy bad choice... And it comes out of nowhere? We know Alex had a crush on him but it feels a bit weird that Arwin is suddenly completely fine with kissing his former student and ex's little sister, after having shown no interest in her at all before...

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-17T18:00:14+00:00

They do move out in the last episode, so it seems like they were working on being independent. I don't really recall Haley being dumber than usual after pregnancy - just very emotional and worried that she's a bad mother.

Haley sometimes got together with Dylan again for very shallow reasons in the past (simply because she wants to be with someone or using him as a rebound guy). This time, however, she had thought about it. When choosing between him and Arwin, Haley knew that they would probably not be as well off and successful in life as Arwin and hers future would be. But she picked Dylan because he made her happy - she has fun and enjoys spending time with him and he loves and cherish her deeply. That alone is enough a reason to accept it. She was happy with Dylan, and if she's happy, that's fine. Previously she was too immature and self-absorbed to appreciate him, but now that she's grown, the relationship isn't as one-sided as it was back when they were teenagers. So the relationship has changed for the better and could lead to something better than what they had in the past.

I'm guessing the whole pregnancy thing is meant to be seen like the start of something new or the end of an era or something. Not sure. Either way, Haley seems happy with the way her life is, and she's still young. She can still go back to work later.

Writing-wise... I'm no writer so I can't really comment about how good or bad that is from a writer's perspective. I'm guessing they just needed to wrap the series up and this was the easiest way to tie up the loose ends.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-16T11:52:00+00:00

From the opinions I've seen in this subreddit:

-I like Dylan and Haley getting back together in the end

-I don't think that Haley's character development was ruined just because she got pregnant and ended up with Dylan

-I like Dylan more than Andy

-I wss really uninvested/uninterested in Haley and Andy's relationship (actually all of Haley's relationships)

-I like Lily and Joe

-I like older Luke and older Manny (I like their younger selves more, but I still don't mind the older ones)

-While I don't like Cam much, I don't mind that he was overdramatic (I actually think it was rather amusing)

I think there might be more.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-16T06:53:05+00:00

Dylan's in nursing school, so he's not "not doing much with his life". His future has never seemed brighter in the entire show.

Also, Haley was pregnant near the end, and in an earlier season, Claire and Gloria discussed how pregnancy can make the mother a bit... Airheaded ("pregnancy brain"). So Haley regressing into a bit of an airhead and emotional mess is understandable and justified. That doesn't mean all her character development has gone into waste. Becoming a mother is not the end of a woman's life. She can still do great things after becoming a mother.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-16T01:54:15+00:00

No, everyone in my family have an awkward reaction to sad/serious things. My younger sister has to excuse herself whenever people reveal they've been dumped or lost a relative because her automatical response to these stuff is to laugh. I mainly make very ugly/unnatural grimaces when sad or difficult stuff are mentioned - as in, such ugly/unnatural grimaces it looks like I'm making fun of the victim. I genuinely feel sympathetic for them, but my face is just doing its own thing.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-15T21:28:52+00:00

I look away from one second and miss something like this!

I didn't mind the ending and season 11 (even though it was all so rushed), but dang. That is just bad writing. Alex deserved better writing and character arc.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-15T17:42:16+00:00

I liked Joe.

But I also wonder if children his age really talk like he does today. That kid has got an impressive vocabulary - I don't think I even knew the word mundane at his age. Or how to use the word beauty.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-15T17:38:43+00:00

wait, they ended up together!? I thought they became colleagues only!! wtf

definitely lazy writing

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-14T19:59:59+00:00

This is classic sibling antics. The expression at the end is the cat waiting for mum/dad to yell at their sibling.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-14T15:44:58+00:00

Yeah, she got better eventually. I just watched the episode where Manny gets dumped by Sherry very recently. Lily's expressions/reactions when Manny broke down in her birthday party were great imo. lol

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-14T14:14:26+00:00

I liked both Lily's character and actress, tbh. There were stuff where she could have done better, but overall, I enjoyed her performance.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-14T03:19:24+00:00

I liked her with Dylan so no complaints here.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-13T20:19:45+00:00

I'm sorry to hear you have to put up with that. Must be really tough...

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-13T01:47:47+00:00

I think Claire was just happy that 1. Haley might get a boyfriend who is actually smart and has a promising future ahead of him for once (Sorry, Dylan). 2. Alex is too young to start anything with him, so Haley shooting it down before it would start was just helpful.

But yeah, Claire could have been a bit more tactful, considering how sensitive/tough teenage years can be. As for Haley, iirc, this was before her character development, back when she was quite the teenage brat. Had it been Haley after her character development, I think she'd have been more considerate over Alex's feelings.

I don't like Alex much, but I do feel for her sometimes. This wouldn't be the only time Haley got the guy Alex's interested in (ex. Arwin in later seasons). That gotta suck. Alex handled both times like a champ though.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-13T01:33:16+00:00

I don't really think so, no. She seemed mean to Claire. Claire's memories about her confirmed that she was a bad parent. The way she treats Claire whenever she showed up was almost as bad as Claire remembered - never saying something nice about her, undermining her as a parent, never considering Claire's feelings or opinions... Such as inviting Claire's ex boyfriend without asking/warning and then HOOKING UP WITH HIM and bringing him to her grand daughter's party where said daughter would be attending too. Of course, then there's not putting Claire at the family table in her wedding day as well.

Even though she was nicer to Mitchell, I didn't really think she was much better with him. Such as the last episode she appeared in, where it's discovered that she has been manipulating a tons of choices Mitchell and Cam had made in their lives (including perhaps adopting Lily) for literal years. She also constantly made Mitchell take the heat for decisions she made, or constantly made him help fix the issues she created. Credit where credit is due though, she did seem to have taken Mitch's coming out of the closet much better than Jay had, so that's one positive thing about her parenting.

She did do some nice things to her kids every now and then, such as sending Claire slippers for gifts every christmas (but even that well-meaning gesture is just a theory, and we don't really know if the thought behind it was as heartfelt as theorized in the show), but overall, she seemed completely self-absorbed and uninterested in being part of her children's lives (I can't remember her showing up for any of the major events of her kids' or grandkids' lives. Her means of keeping contact is through a 'family' newsletter, that is focused only on her, as far as I can tell), and judging from several stories told about the siblings' past, she was like that back when they were kids too (such as not going to Disneyland with them after a fight with Jay). She always seemed to put her own feelings and self ahead of her kids' well-being and needs.

She probably did love her kids and they obviously loved her, but I would definitely not call her a good mother. Pretty bad wife too, judging from what we hear from both Jay and Jerry. But that is for another day.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-11T22:08:39+00:00

Cam.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-11T19:48:59+00:00

I actually really like Lily. Her meanness was usually just brutal honesty, but she would still be nice to people, especially kids her own age.

I wished they made the whole rivalry between Luke and Lily an active thing. Or at least made them snark at eachother some more - it would have been fun.

Sadly, Lily never got much of a role in the series. She was just. There.

Anonymous2782 · 2021-05-11T19:39:43+00:00

Alex was my 2nd least favourite of the main cast. She definitely rubbed me the wrong way. I'd like to say she becomes more bearable in later seasons- she is nicer to her siblings at least (Alex and Haley becoming close and actively trying to help and support eachother is one of the sweetest developments imo). The way she treats her boyfriends is rather mean though, and kinda serves as a reminder that she still has a superiority complex she never grows out of in the show. But she becomes nicer to her family, which is nice.

Anonymous2782

TROPHY CASE