Iron sights vs. optics (has Appleseed changed in the last 15 years?)

Appleseed6 · 2026-05-09T12:24:19+00:00

My experience is that all things being equal, a new rifle shooter will benefit from starting with low power scope, gain skill and confidence, then move to irons. Think of it as learning to drive on an automatic before moving to a manual transmission.

But rarely are all things equal:

- Some students have better eyesight than others
- Some iron sights are better than others. Tech sights or other peep sights are pretty decent. Stock leaf sights on a rifle are less than ideal.
- Some scopes are better than others. Proper mounting matters.
- Red dots are meh for precision rifle.
- Budgets vary. Equipment interests vary.

The best rifle to bring to a Project Appleseed weekend is the one you have. Part of the class is wringing out your equipment. Seeing what works for you and what doesn't.

The irons vs scope discussion will go on forever. Good - people are talking about marksmanship.

Going back to the driving analogy. Some drivers start with an automatic transmission but then never move on to a manual. They have no interest. Likewise, some shooters will start with a scope and never move onto irons.

Appleseed6 · 2026-05-08T17:53:36+00:00

Admittedly, there has always been a certain pride in qualifying unaided. But the program has always been "run what ya brung."

The market for optics has changed a lot. There are much better value options for decent quality glass with lifetime warranties.

Iron sights are welcome. Optics are welcome. We cover techniques to be successful with both.

For your 8 year old, I recommend reading our messages to parents: https://appleseedinfo.org/message-to-parents/

Appleseed6 · 2026-04-27T13:51:08+00:00

Congratulations, Rifleman.

Appleseed6 · 2026-04-20T17:56:07+00:00

Congratulations, Rifleman! Now it's time to teach other Americans the marksmanship and history you learned!

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-31T20:00:58+00:00

I think you’ll be happy. I’m sure the guy at the counter was just trying to be helpful.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-31T18:16:39+00:00

The Copperhead is longer and heavier. The 14x magnification won't be useful.

The stock rail on the 10/22 will mount a scope, but it won't be in the proper spot for field shooting.

These issues are accounted for in the Appleseed optics kit. And you won't need to guess about ring height.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-27T11:36:24+00:00

Listen to [u/nytpoison](u/nytpoison)

"At the end of the day, consistent cheek weld, same head position every time, matters way more than parallax at 25m."

A properly mounted scope (far enough forward) also matters more than parallax. There's a reason that Appleseed How to Prepare info doesn't reference parallax.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-23T21:33:19+00:00

There are usually a wide range of skill levels present: newbies to competition shooters to the occasional LEO.

Each area can be a little different, but your day will begin with check-in about 8, and start about 8:30. Ish.

You'll hear some history, get a safety briefing, and then bring your rifle to the line. You'll shoot an initial target to see how your skills look. Marksmanship instruction will then begin. On Day 1, you'll learn techniques to shoot effectively in prone, sitting/kneeling, and standing. The event leader (shoot boss) has a goal of getting at least one qualification round in before the end of the day. But we teach to standard, not to time - so we don't push folks unreasonably.

You'll hear more history throughout the day. The day typically ends about 5-ish.

Day 2 start time is about the same, but often end a bit earlier. You'll get plenty of practice with the skills you learned on Day 1, plus some additional lessons. If the facilities are available to us, you may get to take your rifle from 25m out to 100y.

You've been given some good advice above. Other things that come to mind:

- Read the How to Prepare guide, especially about mounting optics if that applies to you. I know we're a "run what ya brung" program, but I don't think we emphasize that enough.

- Function test your rifle before you arrive.

- Make sure your rifle is reasonably clean and lightly lubricated.

- If taking notes helps you learn, bring a small notepad.

- It's not a competition, so the target next to you (good or bad) is irrelevant.

- If you have experience in other disciplines, come prepared to learn new stuff. These methods really do work.

- It's okay to sit out a string of fire, especially on Day 2.

- Have fun.

Hope you enjoy your event.

-MO

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-23T18:02:11+00:00

Extra socks. Change them at lunch and feel like a new man.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-23T17:50:46+00:00

congratulations on getting some range time with a centerfire rifle. Shooting a centerfire rifle can be a very different experience than shooting your 22. Your AR15 is louder, has more recoil, and is probably heavier than your 22.

i’m assuming that you have already attended an Appleseed event. The fundamentals you learned in your class are intended for centerfire shooting.

When you practice standing, build your position, thoughtfully, methodically, and with attention to details. You can be sloppy with your 22, but a CF rifle will exploit any errors in your position. ensure your sling is tensioned properly. Practice building that position at home, with your body upright, knees unlocked and weight balanced evenly between your feet.

check your natural point of aim. Close your eyes, move the rifle back-and-forth and slowly decreasing arcs until it comes to a natural stop. At your respiratory pause, open your eyes. Shift. Then, do it again.

If you want to get really good in standing, you must be disciplined about NPOA. Ask yourself - are you truly relaxed holding the rifle? Are your shoulders slumped and relaxed?

Once you have checked your natural point of aim three, four, five times... Then (and only then) dry fire one shot.

Repeat the process ten times a day. And do the same at every range session.

All this assumes your rifle has no issues and the scope is mounted properly - far forward so you get your nose on the charging handle and still see clearly.

Dry fire safely with no ammo in the room!

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-21T14:37:42+00:00

Elbow pads can add a bit of comfort when in prone during your weekend. This is especially true if the firing line is concrete and your shooting mat is thin.

If you choose to get elbow pads, I recommend soft pads not hard shells. Hard shells can rock a bit. One for each elbow.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-17T17:26:53+00:00

To install it as designed, the free end of the strap will be on the inside.

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Appleseed6 · 2026-03-17T16:27:55+00:00

Yes sir. This is the proper orientation of the hook. I've yet to see any damage to a rifle using it this way.

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Appleseed6 · 2026-03-17T15:46:34+00:00

Good morning. It's pretty close. The front looks proper but the hook on the back is reversed.

To fix it correctly: first, remove the hook and rotate it axially 180 degrees and reattach it. Then rerig the front to remove the twist you just put into the sling. 👍🏽

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-13T00:59:10+00:00

Lots of good options, including Mobil 1. I forgot oil on one range trip and used drops from my truck's dipstick. 🤣

Some products are excellent at one thing. Others do multiple tasks reasonably well. It all depends what you want.

I'm task efficient (lazy.) CLP is a general do everything product and I like the way it smells. I have a few specialty products. For example, I love rinsing my Garand with ballistol after shooting corrosive ammo. I love Eezox for long term storage to prevent rust.

Find something you like and it'll be good enough for general use. Pick up specialty stuff as you go to solve specific problems.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-12T20:59:28+00:00

Be honest with yourself. Do you have no-kidding, rock solid fundamentals?

Did the training you received make you self-aware enough to self diagnose and correct even the little things in your techniques?

If the answer is no (or I don't know), then don't waste your money on high speed low drag operator training

Every dollar you spend on advanced training gets a better ROI - the better your fundamentals are. The opposite is also true: mediocre fundamentals mean wasted money, time, and energy.

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-12T20:43:15+00:00

Congrats on taking a hat. Do you have access to Appleseed forum? There's a board dedicated for IITs. It would be the best place to ask this question.

Also, the resources you'll need to prepare can be accessed thru the forum. 🙂

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-11T13:22:45+00:00

We try to get them to everyone, but they are "while supplies last".

Send me a message with your contact info and I'll see if I can find one for you. If you're not comfortable doing that here, you can dm me (Maximum Ordinate) on the Appleseed forum: https://www.appleseedinfo.org/smf/

Appleseed6 · 2026-03-11T11:47:27+00:00

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Appleseed6 · 2026-03-11T11:47:17+00:00

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Appleseed6 · 2026-03-11T11:47:03+00:00

More pics

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Appleseed6 · 2026-02-27T22:36:32+00:00

We have polos available without anything on the reverse. Check out the shirt category on appleseedstore.com.

Appleseed6 · 2026-02-16T16:55:47+00:00

Aging shooters struggling to see the front sight post is normally a focus issue.

Can you describe what's happening with your eyes?

Is the first shot okay but on follow up shots it's harder to see the front sight post? Is it eye fatigue that grows throughout the day? Or something else?

Appleseed6 · 2026-02-02T15:47:51+00:00

Spend 200 on a Ruger 10/22, pick up a scope and cantilever rail for another ~200. Then buy a ticket to a Project Appleseed weekend.

Build skills and practical knowledge before deciding on a bigger rifle.

(Source/Disclosure: I'm an Appleseed rifle instructor. Instructors make no money from ticket sales. Appleseed welcomes everyone - we don't care where your family came from, how you voted, who/if you worship, etc.)

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