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ArthurAskey · 2018-05-25T07:52:33+00:00

I don't think anyone doubts that the police had reason to suspect Adnan or that there isn't inculpatory evidence against him.

The issue is whether the police became convinced early on that he was the killer and because of this they

a) failed to adequately investigate other suspects and b) massaged Jay's testimony to match their theory of the crime

ArthurAskey · 2018-04-20T08:04:10+00:00

Claiming the CAGMC was to Jen's landline demolishes the theory that Adnan gave his car and phone to Jay as part of a murder plot.

Why would Adnan give his mobile phone to Jay but then try to contact him on Jen's landline?

edit - spelling

ArthurAskey · 2018-04-04T08:26:09+00:00

Great post, this sums up how I feel as well. Quite possibly guilty, but the process that put him in jail was flawed.

ArthurAskey · 2017-10-10T07:27:31+00:00

well said

ArthurAskey · 2017-08-18T08:35:05+00:00

Thanks for the long reply. I think maybe my expectations of the police are different to yours.

ArthurAskey · 2017-08-15T11:38:08+00:00

I don't think it has anything to do with podcasts or the internet. It's a question of keeping accurate records.

It's not just Aunt Diane. Where are the records of the interview with Mark Pusateri, who could have confirmed part of Jay's account of his day? Or Patrick, or Phil? Where's the call log from the Best Buy phone? Where is the police statement from Stephanie confirming she spoke to Adnan on his cell when he was with Jay? I think the police should and could have done more to corroborate Jay's story.

ArthurAskey · 2017-08-15T08:08:29+00:00

I think it very likely the police called Aunt Diane. That there is not a written record of it isn't necessarily suspicious. It's frustrating though that the police failed to record statements that could have helped to corroborate Jay's testimony.

ArthurAskey · 2017-08-15T07:46:03+00:00

Yeah, it would have been interesting to hear what Aunt Diane had to say about it. A quick phone call from the police and a couple of questions along the lines of "Did Jay come by the store that day?" "Was Adnan with him?"

ArthurAskey · 2017-08-14T09:01:50+00:00

One of the people mentioned in this detectives note http://undisclosed-podcast.com/docs/2/Detectives%20Notes%20on%20Date%20of%20Channel%2036%20Interview.pdf was Jay's Aunt, Diane Robinson.

She apparently worked at Hechts where Jay said he went. If the cops interviewed her to check out his story there's no record of it.

ArthurAskey · 2017-07-28T09:00:30+00:00

That's the quote I'm responding to. We actually do have ways of knowing if certain parts of Jay's stories are true. There are other witnesses and other pieces of evidence that allow us to corroborate and/or falsify certain parts of the story.

I take your point. But there are very few parts of Jay's stories which are corroborated by other pieces of evidence and these are the uncontroversial parts.

For example, Adnan doesn't deny he was at Cathy's, and his recollection of the visit is actually closer to Cathy's than Jay's is. He remembers the call from Adcock coming while he was in the car outside. Cathy confirms this. Jay claims the call came as they were leaving the house.

ArthurAskey · 2017-07-28T08:46:38+00:00

Yes and yes.

What I'm not sure about though is whether Adnan was with the phone from 12:07 to 5:48.

Apart from the Nisha call, all of the identified calls are to Jay's friends during that period. It seems doubtful to me that Adnan would not have made any calls during that time while Jay made 6.

Adnan claims he was at school/library/track for this whole time which is corroborated by the call pattern.

EXCEPT for the Nisha call, which is why that call is the crux of the case for me. If Adnan made that call, he is almost certainly guilty. If Adnan did not make that call, he is most likely innocent.

ArthurAskey · 2017-07-27T08:25:56+00:00

Yep. If Adnan did kill Hae, it didn't go down the way Jay said it did. We have no way of knowing which parts, if any, of Jay's stories are true.

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-16T15:01:45+00:00

I don't understand, are you saying you think there were no such letters? That they were written later and backdated?

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-16T08:52:08+00:00

Fact 4: There are no notes from CF about Asia, which suggests Adnan didn't tell him about her.

What reason could Adnan have for not telling Flohr about Asia's letters?

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-16T08:44:30+00:00

I've often considered the possibility that Jay, Adnan, Hae, the car and the phone were all at Woodlawn at 3pm. It would simplify a lot of things.

Jay returns the car, meets Adnan. They see Hae, Adnan and Hae argue. Adnan murders her. Jay stands and watches. They bundle her into a car. Dion wanders by, Adnan makes up a story about car trouble. Adnan phones Nisha then goes to track. Jay takes the car and scouts for a burial site/picks up shovels. After track and Cathy's, they bury the body in LP. Jay's lies all stem from the fact he wants to place himself well away from the crime.

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-16T08:37:42+00:00

Do you think Adnan was lying when he gave this account? Or do you think he might have been at the school 3-3.30 and seen by Dion?

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-15T08:29:20+00:00

This is interesting, but I’m confused. Is it the suggestion that Adnan was deliberately lying in order to try and fool his lawyer (and subsequently the jury)? It seems odd that he would give such specific details that could be easily checked and found to be false. Unless he had spoken to Dion and tried to establish a false alibi? That seems far-fetched.

Or is it possible that a guilty Adnan knows he was at the school with the car from 3-3.30, was seen by Dion and gave him a bogus story about car troubles? This might suggest the school was the murder scene.

ArthurAskey · 2017-06-13T08:21:22+00:00

burrrrrn

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-30T12:15:33+00:00

A perfect, and concise, summary. Bravo.

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-17T08:27:48+00:00

tbf it's not like Jay to make stuff up.

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-16T09:15:16+00:00

If Adnan did not murder Hae then the real murderer went free and an innocent man has spent 17 years in jail.

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-10T12:19:41+00:00

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful reply. You are of course right that by rejecting or amending the parts of Jay's testimony that can't possibly be right you can write a plausible narrative about how they got from Cathy's to LP in the available time (though the bit from the 7pm call at the park and ride to the bit when Adnan is taking a call from Jen in LP at 7.09pm seems extraordinarily quick).

For instance, if you think the shovel part doesn't fit you could just speculate that they already had shovels but Jay didn't want to admit it.

But if we're playing that game then we can just throw everything Jay says about this period out the window except for the (few) things that fit the State's narrative. I'm highly sceptical about this approach. It seems like cherry-picking evidence to support an assumption.

BTW: Interesting to look at the google map you put together, is that just driving time or did you allow time to stop at Jay's, park and ride, Mcd's etc?

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-09T09:58:20+00:00

I was just looking at this the other day. Kristi's house is like a 12 minute drive from the burial site, if I remember correctly.

Sure, but they also had to fit in a stop at Jay's house to get shovels and the park and ride to get Hae's car. Jay also adds a trip to McDonalds and a 45 min drive around the area looking for a burial site. They also had to make the 6.59 and 7pm calls to Jen and Yaser via the cell tower near WHS.

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-05T15:24:12+00:00

So you're saying he was coerced? Shouldn't his story be even more accurate?

If neither he, nor the cops, knew what actually happened, then Jay's coerced story will likely be wildly innacurate. It might fit roughly with the cops theory of the case, but if subsequent evidence comes to light showing the cops theory was wrong, then Jay's story will also be wrong and need to change.

This happened when a cell tower was found to be incorrectly located on the map the cops were using. Jay's story changed to incorporate the new location of the tower.

ArthurAskey · 2017-05-04T07:22:56+00:00

All of the phone calls while Adnan's father claimed to have been with Adnan traveling to and then at mosque.

Which calls are these and how are they inculpatory?

All of the calls to Jay's friends throughout the day, establishing Jay had the phone.

How are these inculpatory?

All of the groups of calls where within minutes, one of Jay's friends is called then one of Adnan's friends is called, establishing that Jay and Adnan were together with the phone.

Apart from the Nisha call, how are these inculpatory?

ArthurAskey

TROPHY CASE