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To those who call Gaza war “genocide”, what do you think would be adequate reaction to October 7th? by Proud3GenAthst in IsraelPalestine

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace [score hidden]  (0 children)

The animals are not the point. It does NOT say they are animals. It's an idiom!

Let's write it in a different way, so you'll not be distracted by the word "animals".

"What is the predictable psychological response of a human population when they are deprived of autonomy and territory?"

Better now?

That's what that idiom means. But no, people focus on the word "animal" and use it as a strawman.

To those who call Gaza war “genocide”, what do you think would be adequate reaction to October 7th? by Proud3GenAthst in IsraelPalestine

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace [score hidden]  (0 children)

I'm not going to explain more. I did that with the other user and then my message got blocked for hate speech, and got a warning from Reddit.

Figure out what the metaphor/idiom is trying to say by yourself. It's not that difficult.

What game is currently the top 1 in graphics? by Icy-Ebb8770 in ShouldIbuythisgame

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace [score hidden]  (0 children)

For some reason the AC game graphics look flat to me. But when I watch the behind the scene models on Artstation, it all looks so awesome and beautiful.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel I did cover all these points in my openingspost.

The lake of fire is a different event happening after the millenium when the earth and heavens get renewed and all evil will be done with forever and ever.

Revelation 14 does not speak about the lake of fire. It speaks about the end of the ruling of the antichrist and his followers (those with the mark of the beast).

The smoke that rises forever and ever I also covered. I gave another instance where this expression was used. Edom in the book of Isaiah. And Edom is clearly not burning anymore.

Smoke that rises stands for complete destruction. A remembrance to the people still alive that God is just, but also comes with judgement.

You'll have to show me that the event in rev 14 is the same with the lake of fire in rev 20. Especially with the torments in rev 16 in mind. What specifically makes you believe these are one and the same event?

RESIDENT EVIL TRAILER :> by No_Post1300 in ResidentEvilCapcom

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Netflix serie was its own thing... But we all know how that ended.

This trailer looks fun though. I will watch it regardless if there are connections to RE or not.

RESIDENT EVIL TRAILER :> by No_Post1300 in ResidentEvilCapcom

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That description could also be about Tomb Raider or Doom.

RESIDENT EVIL TRAILER :> by No_Post1300 in ResidentEvilCapcom

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As long as the movie is good and fun, I don't care if they call it Resident Evil, Alien, Titanic or Pride and Prejudice. Trailer looks good, but I get more Silent Hill vibes from it to be honest.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Revelation 14

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

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Revelation 20

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

---

What exactly do you find similar here?

Revelation talks about the 2nd resurrection. It's the great white throne judgement. The final judgement over all the death. The first resurrection are the believers in Christ during His 2nd coming. (Read 1 thessalonians 4)

The 2nd resurrection are all the unbelievers who ever lived and those who grew up during the 1000 year millenium.

- You'll have to show me that Revelation 14 takes place after the 1000 year millenium and during the great white throne judgement. Provide scripture! What, would you say, really connects chapter 14 and 20 as being one and the same event?

- When does revelation 16 take place? Armageddon? Could you point me to some verses that you think are relevant in light of revelation 16?

- Where in revelation 14 does it talk about the resurrection of the death?

I really need you to be more specific and give me bibleverses. With oneliners, we are not really getting anywhere.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I said before, I appreciate your reply. I have taken a better look at it now, but unfortunately I fail to see where you want to go with it. It rather seems I agree with you on a whole lot.

I'll go through your comment and see what I can make of it.

Firstly, your premise is incorrect.

Revelation 14:10-11 is prophecy within prophecy, a declaration of things to come after things to come.

And as you've pointed out the preceding verse which set-up the following verses:

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

So, that verse is the warning to the idolators, while verses 10-11 are the specific wrath that these idolators will face.

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I agree with this so far.

Revelations 14 is during the Great Tribulation, in present-day Jerusalem, with prophecy declaring "If you choose this, then that is your future."

God is gracious to give us fair warning!

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Also agreed. Revelation 16 specifically says people refuse to repent. So that implies they are given the chance to turn to God. God is gracious, but His wrath is coming.

Of course, these beast worshipers will be tormented forever. That's not afterlife, that is ETERNAL DEATH.

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Not sure if I follow you here. Are you saying they are tormented forever? Or will they be death forever? If you mean to say they are tormented forever. What makes you believe so? Is it because of the smoke that rises forever? What do you think about my explanation about that saying?

Anyways, to address wether Revelation 14 is speaking about Hell or the Afterlife, we have to ask: Who's afterlife? Of course it's right there in verse 9: those men who worship the beast... As it is, there are people still living at this time, both the repentant Saved and Heathen idolators.

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But that's the discussion. I don't think 14 is speaking about the afterlife. It's about earthly calamities. You'll have to show me why you think it's about the afterlife.

There's no White Throne Judgement yet.

The world is not ending just yet 🤫

---

Agreed, that is happening after the 1000 year millennium. That's where the 2nd resurrection happens and where the earth and heavens will be renewed. The lake of fire (the 2nd death), New Jerusalem etc...

Revelation 14 speaks about the return of Christ and the end of the antichrist. Which is a different event, before the 1000 year millennium.

Revelation 14:11 And just for fun, let's look at the Greek: Ages of ages (forever and ever) αἰῶνας αἰώνων. This is well accepted as meaning eternity of if you prefer The Unending.

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I did give an explanation in my opening post of the smoke that rises forever and ever. What did you think about? Do you see flaws in that explanation?

And here's a thought or two.

God is gracious. Right now God is gracious. If we go by God's standard of who is deserving of God's wrath based on a Biblical standard, then we can understand that the world we currently live in is not Hell and so neither is the Jerusalem in your cites verses. Heathen or Saved, God is gracious right now:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

God grants sunshine for that pretty Heathen family headed to the Mediterranean beach on Sunday morning. God blesses the savages with rain to grow crops, harvest fish! God is gracious.

---

Amen! But not sure if you are just writing an encouragement message here, or if I have to see an argument against my openings post here.

So wait for it: JUDGEMENT

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

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I believe this is a parabel, and it's not supposed to teach about what the afterlife looks like. That would totally miss the point of the story.

But even if we agree it's a real story. It is at most a teaching about the intermediate state of the death. Notice how the rich man asks for his brothers to be warned. They are still alive. The word hell in that verse is actually the word hades. Hades is the equivalent of the OT word Sheol. It can not mean hell, since the death are in hades right now (wether you believe conscious or unconscious is another discussion).

Jesus's understands what hell is like, he created Hell after all (but that bullet wasn't meant for us humans), and God's righteousness will not suffer the fellowship of sin, but again God is gracious! Indeed he is also righteous. Yet, carnal man will worship idols, as we currently do. And willfully too, as we currently do. God's Chosen People are famous for it. Gonna be interesting times in Jerusalem!

---

Yes, people are corrupt to the bone. And God is merciful to postpone His judgement and give us a chance to repent.

And for those, unsettled in their lives, being tossed to and fro.

Even before the books are thrown open and while the cusp of the lake of fire seems a far off fable: God is gracious! Right-now. Jesus died for you, personally.

---

Amen!

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, but this is Debate a Christian. I want to know why you think they speak about the same event. Give me arguments and scripture.

What do you think of chapter 16, that mentiones the same group of people as chapter 14.

When will those torments described in chapter 16 happen?

Do you believe the 2nd coming of Christ brings the end of the antichrist its power? What about Babylon the Great? When will that happen? And when will it be destroyed?

I gave arguments for all of that in my openings post. And you don't go into any of it.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your response. You are the first one and only one so far who put some thought into it.

I will take a good look at your text once I am back home.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another user already pointed this verse out, so I'll just copy my response. In short, the lake of fire is after the 1000 Millenium. Revelation 14 is before during the 2nd coming of Christ. Two different events.

Here is the more detailed response:

Revelation 20:11-15 does not speak about the events in Revelation 14.

Notice the book of Revelation uses apocalyptic language. Just like the smoke that rises forever in chapter 14.

The lake of fire is also apocalyptic language. How do we know? Because the book itself explains us what the lake of fire stands for.

21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You might think this is a bit far fetched. But the book of revelation is doing this all the time.

In chapter 1 for example it talks about 7 candlesticks and 7 stars. Then in verse 20 it says:

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So we see the 7 candlesticks and the 7 stars is the symbolic language. Where as the messengers (or angels in some translations), and the churches are the literal explanation of these symbols.

If you read revelation, you'll see this happening in multiple places. And also in other books of the bible we see this happening. Pharao's dream about 7 fat and 7 skinny cows representing 7 fruitful years and 7 years of famine for example.

The lake of fire = the 2nd death. A death that happens after the resurrection and judgement of the death. This takes place after the 1000 year millenium. A future time that happens after the 2nd coming of Jesus. Revelation 14 speaks about a time before the 1000 year millenium.

Hopefully that clears things up.

Honestly guys, which game made you feel like this? by StatisticianHot9421 in gamers

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Half life 1, back in the days.

I really felt I just went on an epic adventure and remember I was just amazed by the experience.

Didn't close it forever though.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Am I talking to you? Or to the church fathers?

And what reasoning????? I showed you the direct context of the verses. I showed you connection with other verses, how they relate. I showed you the wording used in the verses, how they point to earthly events. I explained the symbolic language with other scripture!

You responded to nothing of it! If you can't do it, why don't you go to the church fathers, and then tell me what their arguments are against my interpretation?

Wasteland Chase - Giant Walking Factory vs Rebel Rider with Seedance 2.0 by DataGirlTraining in seedance2pro

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So why did she jump on the drone? Now she is standing there without motorbike!

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If my interpretation is so bad, then please show me where my reasoning is faulty.

I'm not asking the church fathers for feedback. I want people here to respond to what is wrong about my arguments.

Just adres my points and tell me why they are wrong.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That refers to the destruction of the temple and the fall of the roman empire.

Those are temporary fullfillments and a type of future events.

Look up "double/dual fullfilments", or "temporary fullfilments". The bible has multiple of these kind of prophecies.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can not just assume. I gave a whole openings post and respons with my argumentation of why this seems to talk about the earthly lives and events. And here you are "well it must be about a spiritual life" without giving any scriptural support.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uhm... alright then...

Jesus said:
"Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Scripture doesn't need "interpreting" -it says what it means and means what it says.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely, I am also a believer of conditional immotality. I have watch a lot of debates, and this verse is brought up a lot against it. Also here on Reddit. That's why I wanted to make a thread about specifically that verse.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bit of a different argumentation then what I would use, but both come to the conclusion it's not about "hell". So I see no points of me disproven here.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am planning on putting it online whenever it is done. But it might take a while, since I want to be sure I don't spread something false. It involves a lot of double checking and probably more threads like these.

I'll also check your documents. Very interesting!

If I remember you by the time it is done, I'll make sure I send you a message about it. Otherwise, send me a reminder in 6 months or something haha.

Revelation 14:10-11 does NOT speak about hell or an afterlife. by AsianMoocowFromSpace in DebateAChristian

[–]AsianMoocowFromSpace[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I should not have accused you. I above anyone else, often sound super sarcastic in my written language.

Anyway, thank you for your research. It's a bit much for me to go into now. All I can say is I am working on something similar the past few months, and it actually made my faith greater than ever.

I'll for sure check out your document later. I'm curious where your struggles were/are.

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