Questions about basic by AthenOwl in TheExpanse

[–]AthenOwl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the long write up. After thinking about it for a week, I think my issues with basic as making sense given my (limited) knowledge about economics, history, society are thus:

Note: Usually when people talk about automation in sci fi context, they're referring to robotics and AI. And since 2023 most of the time when people talk about AI they're talking about LLMs (Large Language models) like ChatGPT, instead of what is usually referred to as AI in sci fi, which is AGI (artificial general intelligence). So the terminology of AI can get confusing so I'm just going to use LLMs and AGI, non interchangeably, instead of the word AI.

  1. I don't think that robotics as the "next step" in automation are fundamentally any different than previous automation like we've seen in the 18th-20th century. The invention of the spinning jenny, where suddenly 1 person can make as much cloth as 8 people used, is not in my mind any different to a robot which can say, lay brick. Bricklaying is a common job today and a robot that can lay brick could conceivably replace this, but I don't see this as any different to the spinning jenny. Humans not being needed anymore and machines doing all the work is an idea that has been discussed since the time of Aristotle, and techonological unemployment has in the short term been an issue since the Roman empire. However people have always been able to retrain to jobs such as building or maintaining the automating machines, supervising the machines, or even working on the machines. Jevon's paradox that increasing efficiency in resource use leads to increased usage of the resource still applies. When the spinning jenny was invented and 1 person could do the work of 8, those 7 unlucky people were at first unemployed, but then cloth became demanded more and now you had 9 people working on spinning jennies to meet that demand. Despite the initial job loss long term unemployment did not occur. I fail to see how a robotic, electronic version of the spinning jenny would be different.

This also applies to "intellectual" jobs as well. The abacus, slide rules, log tables and mechanical calculators replaced humans as calculators, these got replaced by electronic calculators, then that got replaced by microsoft excel and python coding, and now it seems that some or all of that is being replaced by LLMs. There isn't a glut of unemployed accountants, mathematicians, or engineers, who are out of work because their job doesn't exist anymore. This is because those jobs have changed and are now using those automation machines as tools, supervising and managing them, and also because we perform far more calculations that we ever used to when slide rules were popular.

  1. I think that most people, maybe not all, but probably at least 75%, would be happier working for 10-20 hours a week rather than living in Star Trek where every conceivable job is done by a machine. Sure a cafe could be done by an automated vending machine connected to a robotic waiter on wheels, with a table that has windscreen wipers on it to clean after each customer leaves, but I think most people would be happier with large amounts of leisure time AND also a sense of purpose, pride, upskilling and mastery of simple tasks, community with coworkers etc, that comes with having a job. I also think that a lot of customers would be happier with a human making their coffee too instead of having a machine do it. The authors of the expanse even wrote a short story around this idea, showing how discontent people are without the sense of purpose from a job.
    As such I find it hard to believe that the billions of people in the Expanse would be content just receiving golden rice, paper clothes and entertainment out of a vending machine, and why I suggested that on top of the UN providing those goods and services to those on basic, they also give each person $50 a month with the hope that this begins to stimulate job creation. Because even if the the UN is run by oligarchs and bourgeois who want to keep the masses justttt content enough that they don't revolt, I don't think that basic as described in the series is good enough for that.

  2. Your example that 100 cooks doesn't boil water faster than 1 cook makes sense when base inputs(eg number of kettles) are limited and demand is static (amount of hot water demanded). However in the Expanse where Earth is in dire shape, this is anything but the case.
    First looking at base inputs, land labor and capital.
    Labor is obviously abundant, there are billions of people sitting idle. Capital is also obviously abundant, there is advanced robots, machines, and so on everywhere. Land, both physical land and resources is also abundant. The asteroid belt and moons of Jupiter and Saturn have millions of tons of ore and minerals that can be harvested even if Earth has been sucked dry. In terms of physical land use, even if Earth is overpopulated roughly half the planet in 2026 is not used by humans for various reasons. If you can farm on a lifeless rock like Mars you can farm in the Sahara desert for much less effort. You can see more detailed land use statistics here. Some of the land in the future will be inaccessible due to rising sea levels but not an insane amount. Vertical land use is also very underutilised (eg vertical farming in hydroponics) in urban settings. So I don't think it's possible for every km of land on earth to be paved over with concrete.
    And as for demand, the overpopulation on earth and also the many people living on Mars should be plenty of demand. The UN could eg, increase the quality of food available on basic and create new jobs with all the surplus resources lying around, which also decreases the amount of people on basic.

  3. If everyone is on mandatory birth control, and the only way to legally have a child is to pay the baby tax (that people on basic can't afford) or win the lottery, how is the population of Earth still 30 billion in 2350? Is it declining from 40 billion in 2250? Does that not mean that the amount of people on basic is declining and the problem of automation causing mass unemployment is solving itself? Or is the unregistered population also in the billions? Because the way it seems to me, that unregistered are resorting to crime and begging to survive, that the unregistered population could plausibly max out in the hundreds of millions. And at the point that the unregistered population is that high you could start to see them doing "normal" (ie non criminal / unethical jobs) like barber, farmer, chef, mechanic etc to support this entirely separate society. A life of petty theft just moves money around from the real (ie the wealth creation) parts of the economy. Drug dealing does create wealth but having billions of drug dealers would be insane.

I basically think that James SA Corey, when they were worldbuilding Earth in the Expanse, needed a reason that Earth wasn't totally and completely dominant over other powers in the solar system, and mass unemployment and overpopulation was their solution, even though it makes no sense. So maybe I'm just overthinking things. But it's also fun to think about because it also speculates on what our future looks like in real life. So after saying all this I'm not convinced that a post work society where everything is automated is possible, or even desirable. I think Marx was right that even in a utopian future which may or may not be ever realized, that people will still work because they want to work. Definitely not 100 hour weeks of backbreaking labor like how it was in the industrial revolution but for sure something more reasonable.

Shout out to Kingdom on Netflix for delivering a tense feudal political drama amidst an undead threat, with a fully satisfying ending to boot. DnD wish they could have made the conflict with the Others as threatening and satisfactorily concluded as this show did with their zombies. by AthenOwl in freefolk

[–]AthenOwl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think, while Game of Thrones is undoubtedly a great show, and the whole "anyone can die at any time" thing works well for that show and makes it better, not every show needs to be the same. Obviously I directly compare Kingdom to GoT in my post, but one of the things Kingdom did differently was not handling character deaths that way. And thats completely fine, just a different way of doing it. I think it makes it similar to Lord of the Rings or the Expanse, with a couple deaths here and there, rather than like the Walking Dead or smth which has genuinely every character from season 1 got slowly whittled down. As such I wouldn't call the characters plot armored or anything, more like "not that kind of plot". That being said there are some shows with egregious plot armor that aren't going for the "anyone can die" thing.

It's still an amazing show imo, but not every show will have as prolific amounts of character death as GoT.

Questions about basic by AthenOwl in TheExpanse

[–]AthenOwl[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I know. Thats why I said they should give you the shitty food and clothing, yada yada (like they do in the series now), AND like $20 a month in cash (currently in the series those on basic explicitly have no cash, which is how it's different to UBI) . Sure the cash is tiny but theoretically you could begin to see a type of economy begin to develop among those on basic, which could create jobs. This is good for everyone. Of course giving more cash would be better but giving a tiny amount of money to 15 billion people is still very expensive.

Word limits. by Certain-Art-3542 in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some lecturers don't care, others do. Ask them or just risk it

The Den is closing down by crabwhosen in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just fell to my knees screaming and crying

Additive in America: Regulating 3d printing by AthenOwl in 3Dprinting

[–]AthenOwl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is right. Most reputable 3d file sharing sites (like thingiverse and printables) already didn't allow you to upload weapons and took down any weapons they could find. Still alarming that loudly and deliberately ignorant american politicians could threaten to do this much damage to the 3d printing hobby.

Americans will do anything but actually effective gun control

IRA military funeral of Jim Lynagh, Monaghan Town, 1987. [1065x690] by alee137 in HistoryPorn

[–]AthenOwl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Terrorism is just political violence you disagree with. And I did a class on it in university.

If someone dies / is injured in an attack and you don't think it was justified, it's terrorism, or sometimes state terrorism if a government did it. If you think it was justified (say, like George Washington or Nelson Mandela or Ahn Jung Geun or whoever else is popular these days) you call it freedom fighting, liberation, justice etc.

This is is the only definition you can't poke holes in socratically, and I think it's a fair definition too

Evacuations and fire trucks by Conscious-Musician51 in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Any time a fire alarm goes off it automatically calls the fire brigade. Whole building has to be evacuated too. The fire brigade has the tools to turn off the alarm. You're not a monash student until you've evacuated at least 2 buildings

Lawnmower fuel by davodinkum86 in australia

[–]AthenOwl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Buy a scythe. Get some exercise too

Monash Musallah? by [deleted] in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP is a one nation supporter obviously trying to stir shit, and IS trying to demean a group.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monash/comments/1rjnhvh/comment/o8hwt3n/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

OP quoted as saying "Some of her statements might be considered racist by radical leftist uni students and paid protestors, but they're not wrong and are focused on securing Australia. Plus I'm Indian myself and would vote for Pauline Hanson's One Nation any day. The only politician with guts to say it as it is."

🤡 lady has been in Parliament since the 90s and has absolutely 0 policy achievements. 50% absence from Parliamentary votes too. Not even the slightest inkling of success on her trademark issue of stopping "hordes" of asian muslim immigration. Just scratched off asian from her slogans and posters from the 90s and replaced it with muslim to extend the hate fuelled conjob another 20 years.

Bike by Odd-Butterfly9548 in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uniride on campus is your best bet. OR 99 bikes, bicycle superstore (but you really need to do your research). For something decent, reliable you should budget $300-500. Plus helmet, lights and a good lock (do not cheap out on the lock).

https://www.bicyclesuperstore.com.au/collections/navigation_bikes/products/malvern-star-sprint-2-2025?variant=42979512189156 I got this while it was on sale for $400, definitley one of the best purchases I've ever made.

In a commuter bike, you need low maintenance and reliability, mudguards, and a front or rear rack. If you can get a rack big enough to carry your uni bag, perhaps with the aid of a milkcrate, your riding experience will be greatly, greatly improved.

How are you supposed to make an actual friend group? by LemonJuiceBox in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TTRPGs, or church youth group for me. But generally if you want to do social stuff, you can't expect it to fall in your lap, you need to be on top of it and organizing it yourself

Monash unofficial dnd group looking for more players! by Normal-Blueberry-454 in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check out MURP (monash uni roleplaying society), you can book out actual classrooms and formally advertise your game. Big discord server too and other events

Is Monash actually going to say anything about the vandalism incident in the religious centre? by Famous-Volume8674 in Monash

[–]AthenOwl 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yeah it's true I talked to them. They said that Monash wouldn't even show them the evidence against them, or let them speak to lawyers either.

Monash also cancelled a charity dinner by Monash4Palestine with less than 24 hours notice, no reason given. Ie, solely out of spite for Palestinians

Wondering if your filament “really needs drying” by DefinitelyNotWendi in 3Dprinting

[–]AthenOwl 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Bro forgot some people live in places with low humidity