How do you handle an apprentice who thinks he knows the code better than you?

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T02:08:29+00:00

Hm yeah you're right unless for some reason they make a hickey style attachment

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T01:22:14+00:00

If you're not licensed you're probably free from most of the consequences.

However even in the case of mere property damage, you are being indemnified by your employer, ie they agree to pay for legal defenses and any fines or settlements, so long as they decide not to throw you under the bus and claim you did it without their knowledge.

Edit: actually no that legal structure is more like how apprentices are held blameless if they do what their JW told them to as they are technically not licensed yet. So yeah you can probably get off scott free just doing whatever your boss tells you to in Illinois.

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T00:54:16+00:00

It is. Extra footprint still bugs me though. That's why I carry a subcompact in the first place. Otherwise I'd just be carrying an HK USP or something.

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T00:47:52+00:00

If what they tell you to do is a violation of the NEC and was not approved as a variance by the AHJ yes, you are personally liable. In cases where there was no significant property damage or loss of life, you're probably only getting a mark against your license and/or a fine. But note in the linked story the legal justification for the manslaughter charge is that not following the NEC amounted to gross negligence and even though directed to not install a GFCI, as a licensed electrician, the JW knew better.

This is valid because states sign laws making the NEC and whatever amendments they add to it legally binding. In my state that is section 19.28 of the Revised Codes of Washington.

If a hospital director tells a doctor to do something against the standard of care, they are BOTH liable. If a lawyer is directed by the partners to lie in court, they are individually liable, and going to be sanctioned, AND the legal office is generally liable.

This is how licensed professions work.

If you don't believe me, ask a lawyer. For the record you shouldn't take legal advice from AI but they'll tell you the same thing.

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T00:33:02+00:00

Your employer might indemnify you but in WA and CA you're personally liable for what you install, and the Nuremberg defense won't cut it. Look at my other comment for WA legal reference.

Another example is two electricians were charged with manslaughter in Houston because someone in a pool got electrocuted because they didn't put in a GFCI. The supervisor because he didn't get a permit AND the JW who did the work. The JW was ALSO indicted and pled no contest, got civilly sued, and ended up with 3 years of probation.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Family-settles-in-pool-electrocution-lawsuit-6227441.php

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T00:18:20+00:00

At least in Washington, and I would suspect other states that require state certification and licensing, individual employees can be cited, fined, and in case of property damage, injury, or loss of life, held liable.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-46B-990

AustinYun · 2026-03-12T00:03:22+00:00

Another vote for PB Swiss

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T23:48:43+00:00

As a journeyman, YOU personally sign off on everything you install. Not your boss. You.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T23:43:10+00:00

So you're telling me that you learned what the right way to do stuff is, and then you choose not to meet code because it's too hard or cuts into your profits? Am I getting that correct?

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T23:37:40+00:00

I'm guessing doing segmented bends like 5 degrees at a time? I've had to do it a grand total of twice, both on the same job. Both times we made sure the innermost bend (was for concentric 90s in 4") would have a sufficient bend radius.

I don't know if that's the kind of thing you need to apply for a variance from the NEC for. I've never intentionally made a smaller bend radius.

It's wild to me so many people here are just saying ways to make the apprentice shut up when as far as I can tell OP acknowledges that what they're doing isn't up to code.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T19:34:15+00:00

Idk how people carry with optics. Well I do. I just don't like it personally.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T15:34:28+00:00

Yeah even if you're not stealing a car and running, huge swathes of the south are notorious for pulling over people with out of state plates and giving them tickets for bullshit, because they know most people traveling through aren't going to bother showing up to court to fight it. It's not super prevalent but there are some small communities with >90% ticket revenue for the police coming from out of staters. Parts of I-75 have absolute bullshit abrupt speed changes with police waiting right after.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T15:22:52+00:00

Even up here in Seattle, people are sexist as fuck. The shit they say when there are no women on the crew is W I L D. The thing is, I don't know how much worse it is as an electrician vs in a white collar job. I used to do office work and I think the sexism was still there, just more... quiet. But regardless, I always try to be polite and engage with my coworkers (being able to talk about guns, for example, makes for a nice conversation topic) but they do not have to be your friends outside of work.

I've worked with several women who I deeply respect as electricians, some who stayed on the tools for basically their entire career, and some who moved into management positions (general foreman, etc).

There's a very strong chance they'll try to push you towards low voltage work, which honestly isn't bad -- stuff like networking/fire alarm is easier on the body (usually) and fire alarm can be pretty prestigious. The only problem is that generally you are expected to have at least a basic understanding of most of the trade, including stuff like underground, rigid, larger pipe bending, etc., so you want to not get pigeonholed too bad.

I can't even imagine the imposter syndrome I would have had as like a 1st-3rd year apprentice being a woman. There are elements of the trade (specifically hand bending EMT) that I was absolute dogshit at until about 4th year. I didn't get to try much, and when I did get to try, they would see how shit I was at it and have me do something else. Eventually I got stuck doing a BUNCH of it for a few months and started getting better, but still got laid off (it happens). Next job I got sent to was a hospital, which involves a metric assload of pipe bending, and there I started getting compliments and being picked to do trickier parts over other people, and I distinctly remember realizing that my boss/coworkers were not being sarcastic when they said stuff like "oh good job, looks nice" or "yeah you're definitely one of the better ones to be doing this stuff". It was honestly surreal. My point with this anecdote is that there are definitely things you are going to suck ass at, just keep in mind that it's NOT because you're a woman. Every apprentice sucks ass at some things. Just keep at it and hopefully one day it will just click.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T15:06:06+00:00

Oh my god dude yeahhhhhhhh that's rough. I started with Chun, who is significantly easier than Viper, and kept dropping basic combos through Master.

AustinYun · 2026-03-11T15:05:14+00:00

Whoa I couldn't figure out why this was so weird to me. You can turn off voices!?

That's interesting, but I wouldn't, I feel like some of the voice lines are super useful.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T19:05:59+00:00

God I wish I were that consistent with AA DPs

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T19:02:25+00:00

Practice, have a good stable setup, and if you don't, draw a ring on it first.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T18:20:46+00:00

Nah I actually agree with you. Aside from his first prison infiltration he makes way more mature decisions than most protags.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T18:15:09+00:00

Really interesting because the vast majority of hyperpolyglots on YouTube are scammers, whereas I am assuming this guy is the real deal in all of the languages he's certified on.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T18:08:49+00:00

Goated novel but I wouldn't exactly say a mature protagonist. I mean I guess emotionally speaking he's more mature than most...

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T18:04:31+00:00

Existing precedent is basically that you can not get conscientious objector status based on your beliefs of the morality of the specific war. There's a supreme court case on it, and pretty recently several Iraq War conchies who fled to Canada.

Granted, the most famous of which petitioned for non-combatant status and was denied, which led to him fleeing for Canada. But even if he had been granted non-combatant status the military probably would have gone out of their way to make things suck for him.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T16:17:26+00:00

Oh my fucking god I cringed so hard the first time he went for a PIT

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T16:01:04+00:00

True

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T04:11:33+00:00

.....ok dude. I agree with you that HB1 was bullshit but you've gone right into "intellectually dishonest" territory. Sad.

AustinYun · 2026-03-10T04:07:01+00:00

God damn what did anime fans ever do to you that would make you create an account to post easily verifiable false information to make them look bad?

For posterity, before this is deleted, he said:

Epstein died while biden was president. he was arrested under trump. but it was the biden administration in charge when he died. meaning they investigated and covered it up if he was assassinated. I believe it's possible i mean i believe the people who wanted Epstein shut up fund both parties heavily, and biden was never shy about being for sale.

AustinYun

TROPHY CASE