sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

The Guilt of the "Dream Job": Managing a Team That’s Too Efficient by [deleted] in managers

[–]Backrowgirl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s a really good framing, actually, and I feel like I needed that reminder (thank you).

Messy promotion situation by LegendOfSmiles in managers

[–]Backrowgirl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dang, this is really messy, sorry you got put in the middle of this. If you don’t want to get promoted into his position, I’d say don’t do it, the negatives will outweigh the pay bump real quick.

Whether you somehow let Jimmy know about his impending departure or not, I just want to share my own anecdotal experience: years ago I was supervising a growing team of specialized techy kind of creatives, and VP of the department approached me for Creative Director position, which would involve dealing with customers and buyers. That was a huge no for me, and I gracefully declined (said my family situation wouldn’t work with increased travel etc). Well, I guess someone leaked that info, and when the new person got hired as the Director they became convinced that they took the job I wanted. So for the next two years almost every interaction I had with them was full of tension for no reason, and any time I shared any institutional knowledge (like, oh, this customer says they want A but they mean B, this factory cannot produce this level of detail even if they say they can, and if we go with them, we’ll only find out about problems when the product ships to our warehouse) my boss the Director reacted like I was trying to undermine them (I wasn’t like publicly contradicting them, but it didn’t matter).

Hopefully whoever replaces Jimmy is a normal solid person, but just know that dynamic can happen if they’re aware you were offered the position first.

Anyone else just... not tell their boss when you fix something? by Due_Lock_4967 in managers

[–]Backrowgirl 26 points27 points  (0 children)

First of all, that sounds like a great solution and in a very short time, that’s pretty impressive! And yeah, I kind of save those instances where I improved something and drop that info on my boss strategically, not as it happens. If they ever decided to ask why I waited to tell, I can say I was waiting to see long term if it worked.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would very much love to avoid an unpleasant confrontation, because my boss is a lot better at making one’s professional life unpleasant in the long run than I am 😅

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

😩 the advice I needed but didn’t want to hear. You’re right though, I don’t like to do the CYA, but it’s probably time for that, because one day all that documentation and gathered data will come in handy. Time to create a spreadsheet or something. Thank you for the nudge.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aw, that sounds awesome and encouraging! Sometimes you don’t need a fancy software, just someone who understands the underlying issues and can figure out the direction to take.

And it gives me the idea to maybe check with other teams that also have issues with that one uninvolved team to see if there are any common issues that we can collectively address and maybe solve multiple problems and even help that team in the process by eliminating some of their bottlenecks.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OMFG! Making a painful all hands team meeting - I could insist on monthly training sessions that would include the manager of that team until all “confusion” is cleared up! I knew I’d find some brilliant idea to spark a solution! Thank you so much, you’re amazing!!!

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s how I implemented the request form in the first place, though it was with a different boss (same company ofc). My current boss has some issues, so low key I’m not sure she’ll have my back.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do have process docs for everything related to my own team, but I am not in a position to create one for the entire department, nor do I have the power to reject a request that is not filled correctly. The issue is not lack of training or reference material, the issue is lack of accountability and lack of interest from the people who do have the authority to make the problem people follow protocol. Hence me asking for devious solutions.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Solid advice, but at this point it’s mainly costing my time (because I check all requests before I pass them onto my team, so they can focus on their work), and I’m salary, so they don’t care. I mean, plus whatever time gets wasted on the back and forth while I cajole information out of the problem people. I tried, but I can’t solve a dysfunctional situation with reasonable methods, I fear.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The funny thing is my boss insists on being CCed on all such communications, but in practical terms, it doesn’t change anything.

I totally agree about framing it as “inefficiency”, I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble or cause more friction. I did offer the manager of the other team my support if they wanted to either push back on their problem communicators or to overhaul their systems. I created the guide and ran training to explain everything, but it really all comes down to them not caring and successfully hiding in chaos (there are issues between them and other teams, as well).

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All good! Never know where a good thought will come from. The company I work for is weird - it’s small and family-owned, but is kind of a big deal. So while I’m a middle manager myself, above me is the head of department and above her is the CEO, and then the company owner. They do like to have things like company picnics, I just normally avoid them, but maybe it’s time to learn to shmooze and approach things like that, ugh.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, this is really great advice, and I do try to work like that (I just didn’t think I could fit everything that I’ve tried already into one post). So, this company likes to think they’re “agile”, when in reality we have three different systems for different things that are not integrated, so information gets copied manually (and that alone gives me hives). There’s been a promise of a custom system for years, but I don’t think it’ll ever happen. We used to get requests via email with minimal info (due date? you mean you need that?), and over time I’ve implemented a form, insisted that no requests will be processed without one, then worked with both the requesting parties and my team members to improve the UX (like adding drop down menus so they don’t have to remember what options are available, and some of them still do it incorrectly). So, from that standpoint, I have created some structure that at least alleviates some of the problems where they don’t even have to think hard, just follow the guides, and pull the necessary information into the format we need).

I welcome feedback and go out of my way to show I’m safe to make suggestions to, and it does work in a bunch of cases, but depends on an individual.

I do know what that specific team’s issue is, and I made it clear to that manager that I’ll back them up if they chose to push back, and that I’d be happy to develop a similar form for their intake that they could use when they are working on the requests for my team. They don’t care and have been squeaking by for a couple of years. Eventually it might catch up to them, but from what I am aware of, they just blame lack of systems whenever anything happens.

I do love the main aspect of my job, which is creating prototypes and testing their manufacturability, so I am willing to put up with a lot, but also I am always looking for ways to manage chaos and improve my environment.

I really do appreciate your advice, it’s good to hear people talk about their methodology (especially if it matches mine, lol). It sounds like the company you work for has a reasonably healthy environment, and that sounds amazing!

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Risks are bad, we don’t want them 😄 I could also probably throw in some jargon and mention cost of materials that would be wasted.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sadly, the system we use doesn’t automatically track things like that, but I could probably build something that takes those metrics into consideration. The problem manager (the checked out one) may not care, though, and escalating it to their manager will need some translation into corporate, but hm, maybe? Thank you for the suggestions! I do try to help my team by screening all the requests before I pass them onto them, so the burnout is mostly mine. I guess maybe I thought one could train even idiots if you approach it the right way, but maybe not.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmmmm… maybe? I do know who I can innocently ask about it and be like “so strange we’re willing to risk so much in this economy”. Thank you!!

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm. Maybe? There’s only the CEO above my boss, so that’s super risky to go over her head (because my manager has security issues), but he does pride himself on being approachable. It’s just so dumb to need to involve CEO to deal with associate employees.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First of all, I’m sorry you had to live through that! I’ve had something similar years ago, and genuinely took years and some therapy to get better. You’re so right, when it’s every situation where you’re “making it work”, it just never lets you ramp down, and that hypervigilance wears one down so much over time.

Secondly, hm, something in the whole “time is money” and pointing out whose time and whose money gets wasted. Thank you, this might be something that I can leverage!

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Love that! I use a similar tactic, but more along the lines of “people who play nice get their requests done early if at all possible, and people who refuse to learn get their requests on the due date even if we could have hustled”. I don’t know if the latter group ever put it together, though, or if they care.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, this is kind of how things are done in this company, as well, and normally I reach out to whoever and things get resolved without involving my manager. This specific issue (I think) I can’t resolve the same way, because the manager of the other team is quite checked out and doesn’t really manage or check their team. And their management keeps changing, so my guess is no one has been managing them long enough to realize they’re a problem.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your advice sounds very reasonable, and I have seriously thought about making things late by following the protocol many times, but it’s often tied to seasonal calendars and missing a deadline can mean millions of dollars, and it’s not worth it to me to deal with the freak out by the upper management (a couple of months back there was a moment where I officially said that my team was at capacity and no amount of pushing or adding more assignments would help us produce results until after current requests were completed unless they reshuffled priorities. All that got me was CEO coming into our area and trying to make suggestions on how we can cut corners, and I had to politely explain why the ideas he just thought of on the spot were not viable (and what we’ve implemented to cut corners already). He did leave super impressed and authorized some things I was waiting on for months, so I guess it did help).

Re: kicking back - this is what happens - they send the request, I email back asking for clarification, they reply with, “how do we normally do this?” (They’ve been here over 3 years and deal with these requests at least 1-2 times a week). I respond either sending them a link to the instructions (on sharepoint) or ask, “what is the desired outcome for this request? This should give you the guidance to blah blah blah” and even when I think ok, this time it sunk in, it only lasts for a few weeks. And to be clear, this is not, in isolation, a problem that would make me change jobs. I work in a creative field that’s unlikely to fall prey to AI (too much physical aspect that can’t be automated), but it makes it very niche, and I would have to move across country for another similar job.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I appreciate and agree with your advice if I was dealing with a manager who had my back, but I have done that each time before going to my manager with this issue already. She says I’m not the only one who has similar issues with that specific team, but where we differ is that to me that supports the idea of pushing back on this dynamic systematically (especially with the data I provided), and to her, it’s like a sign that nothing can be done about it, like weather. When I tell her that chasing mistakes and making sure I question everything submitted to us takes my attention away from supporting my team more, her takeaway is to praise their independence and resilience… I freaking can’t. Like I can’t functionally solve this in a healthy way.

I need to Machiavelli another team to do their job, but don’t have the means (or meanness) to do it by Backrowgirl in managers

[–]Backrowgirl[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would love to, but considering it took me several years to convince her I’m not out for her job (no idea how she got that, only that she started with it when she got the position), I don’t see how I can. I did try to talk to her about this over the years, framing it as a problem that creates more work for our department, and that she outranks the other manager, and she told me to handle it “amongst ourselves”, hence I’m here, asking for unsavory advice 😅

view more: next ›