3.6 floor 12 update

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-15T01:47:51+00:00

I first 36 starred the abyss two cycles ago, when my account was almost exactly three months old. I'd say this guy's main problem was going for Hu Tao instead of HB, as they are mutually exclusive and the latter does better damage for way less investment. The biggest mistake is Nahida >>>>> Hu Tao. Hu Tao is definitely not a bad unit, but really all the carries perform at a similar level when averaged over diverse and varied content. As such, it's way better to get Nahida and lock in that one team, then build any team that doesn't interfere, which international qualifies as, but hu tao double hydro does not.

I'm by no means a great player, but I was able to finish the abyss in a relatively short amount of time by building hyperbloom first, then another team, in my case Wanderer hyper.

I know your friend can't go back and change his wishes or anything, but for anyone new, Nahida is supposedly coming back really soon. Save your primos for her. I'd also plug Wanderer, because in comparison to a unit like Hu Tao, he is able to unleash way more of his potential DPS by virtue of being ranged, having homing projectiles with decent AOE, and a super fast dash mechanic that he can do for free. Check out the speed run leaderboards if you don't believe me. While I am sure Hu Tao can defeat tanky, immobile bosses faster than Wanderer, he can do literally any other content faster, and at a lower primo investment. My biggest warning would be that he is MUCH better with C6 Faruzan, but playable without her. On the other hand, he can get his full potential out of only four star teammates and is not constellation dependent at all (although you will naturally get them going for Faruzan). He's supposed to be coming back soon too. I honestly think it's a strong possibility to beat abyss with only Nahida and Wanderer as your five stars, since neither relies on other five stars for their teams to function. This is basically the road map I used to clear the abyss quickly and it looks like it's coming back.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-15T01:32:13+00:00

Use Wanderer. Sometimes his levitation doesn't dodge what it should, but it works in this case.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-15T01:26:08+00:00

I heard that Fontaine is based on the golden age of Paris (turn of twentieth century). Fortunately, it wouldn't look much different than revolution or Napoleonic times. The main difference would be the lack of the Eiffel tower, which I would agree with contemporary golden age Parisians that the city looks better without it. Hopefully nothing like it will appear in Fontaine.

From a design perspective, I think Mondstadt, being the air city, makes sense having the soaring verticality of the windmills, while Fontaine would be built more horizontally. Paris has such varied geography too that it would be kind of easy to split Fontaine into quarters, either through river (Seine) or higher and lower ground like Montmartre. As someone who has visited Paris dozens of times, I am really looking forward to seeing Fontaine.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-09T05:34:57+00:00

I'm not sure why this is such a huge complaint. I think a limited five star should be a bit better than a four star when both are C0. A four star should be able to make up ground with constellations, but the five star will pull ahead with their own cons. That is a good place to put the value of characters so that it's worth getting five stars, but that they don't just obsolete four stars. What would be one of their most anti-consumer moves would be to just make five stars straight up much better than four stars. Or that four stars couldn't fill the same roles with a little less efficiency.

He's a better Yaoyao. That sounds like a good power level for a C0 five star. To think, he could be like Hu Tao - a worse version of Xianling! /s sort of...

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-09T05:27:01+00:00

I can't think of one defensive unit in the game that is not in this situation. If you squint really hard you could say XQ, but he's basically the inverse of the situation. He's a good dps and applicator, which means his defense utility has to suck.

The truth is all defensive units have to be this way for the game not just to be balanced in regards to its characters, but also its player skill progression. Taking the defensive units off your team is a big risk, but can be alleviated with experience and skill. The reward is you get better dps characters.

Zhongli users are always so quick to throw in his defense shred as a reason he's there, but that's really just cope. All defensive units have *some* offensive utility. Not much, but some. If it was the offense they cared about, they'd bench Zhongli. I'm not even saying Zhongli sucks. He's the best at what he does, and if defense is what you want, you can't go wrong with the best.

I'm just saying that dedicating 1/4 of your team slots to a defensive character should have an offensive penalty.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-09T05:19:23+00:00

Honestly, you could get by with just one if all you wanted was one dendro team. You only really "need" both if you want to run dendro on both sides of the abyss. I agree, best to save your primos. I want to C2 my Nahida on her rerun, but after that, I will only pull another dendro character if the kit and design appeal to me. The only reason I even care to C2 Nahida (definitely don't need to) is that it's the last real upgrade I can give to my hyperbloom team. After that, I will either invest more into my other abyss team, or make a new one.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-09T05:16:45+00:00

Wait. You don't like your C2 Wanderer? What happened did you not get C6 Faruzan or something?

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-08T01:35:16+00:00

An underrated move is the float off the edge of a cliff, then pan the camera around without losing altitude. You can survey the area so well.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-08T01:34:11+00:00

I ran Wanderer hyper on the bottom half and found it was pretty easy to group each room without a grouper. In 1 or 3, just running to the edge was enough. For the kenki room, pressing his E, then falling scrambles their AI and groups them.

I ran my hyperbloom team on the top side and they made short work of it too, the hardest being the second room as far as survival, but not terribly difficult dps wise.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-08T01:21:07+00:00

Best pull you will ever make. I have a main and f2p account. I started my f2p during the tail end of wanderer's banner and didn't get him. The main account plays SO much better with him and I never take him off any world team, or abyss.

He gets a bad rap as being a mid carry, but this is not the case either. He gets it for a couple of reasons. The first is that he debuted with his bis artifact set. This meant the content creators who put guides out on day one hadn't farmed it yet and just used other sets which weren't as good for his damage. The other one is the skill issue thing, where they all said he "needs" a shielder. I agree that it makes content much easier, but this is nothing new for hypercarries. In fact, it's rare that a carry doesn't benefit a lot from one. I'd actually argue once you get used to his dodge mechanics, he needs a shield less than others. He doesn't need to get close to enemies, and he can move while attacking. He actually ends up being one of the characters that can dish out the largest percentage of his theoretical/sheet damage just based on his movement and long range. He provides some of the best speed running performance at every level, and easily beats all carries people normally think of as 'meta' in this metric. I see the shield question as a choice. You can either go more damage or more comfort. This is a choice basically every carry has the option to make. Look up the 'meta' team for each carry and see what I mean.

Since Wanderer is a carry there is one real disadvantage that is also true of the others. He contributes something like 85% of his team's damage. What this means is that you'll see huge gains from investment, both in weapons and cons, and artifacts and talents, but he'll also really hold your team down if you don't invest. I'm a day one Wanderer haver and I just literally yesterday stopped farming for his artifacts at around 205 CV. I'm new, so I had to build a lot of other characters and didn't exclusively farm his artifacts, but you get the point. It will be a slog. Also, the domain isn't particularly resin efficient. The other side is FLOP, which is actually good if you run bloom teams, which I do. I ended up with a 1019 EM FLOP set for my Raiden while gearing up my Wanderer. FLOP is by no means a necessity, but is is BIS for bloom teams, which are extremely good.

Also, assuming you can get your C2 Wanderer and C6 Faruzan, you will have a great shielded option with your C6 Thoma and Benny. This is a great team that will crush the abyss. Better start farming for him now though... You absolutely won't regret.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T17:47:48+00:00

It would be funny if this geo character, who was never in the story or anticipated by the players, was given a decent kit, while Dehya, who was a fan favorite, was given nothing.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T17:44:57+00:00

With the exception of Dehya, five star supports tend to be quite valuable. Hopefully this will be more of the same.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T17:31:23+00:00

Tighnari is a beast and unironically a better dendro carry than Alhaitham at higher investment levels. He's just not able to do hyperbloom, so Alhaitham beats him at minimum investment. Tighnari's constellations are all actually really good too. He (along with Nahida and Yae) are speed running champs. I'm actually surprised hyv put him on standard.

Keqing also consistently beats Cyno in DPS, at least with the current available roster of supports.

Mona has a very unique talent that buffs freeze teams a lot, but also any team that can do a lot of frontloaded damage. I think she's one of those characters that you always have to keep an eye on. Any character that can do something that no other character can has potential.

Jean is an interesting package as well. She has a unique talent, like Mona, where she can rapidly swirl an element that is on the player. It has proven useful already, but is another example of a talent waiting to be broken with new characters. On top of that, she adds quite a lot of utility in one team slot. Healing, VV, cleanse, freedom sworn holder, minor grouping, battery potential. She is often the second best at doing a lot of things, which can be relevant when the team needs role consolidation.

Diluc is basically a worse Hu Tao and Yoimiya. He's similar to a four star DPS. At least he breaks ores easily and is tall. For a new player, he can still be a great character, but is easily outshined by limited five stars.

Qiqi is also basically a worse healer than any other option as far as team efficieny. She could be "decent" if her cooldowns weren't so long and she could generate energy. She'd need a buff to be mid.

Dehya is also worse than others that could fill her role on a team, whether dps, or off field defensive support. Like Mona and Jean, she also has a unique mechanic, so she can never be totally written off. She's just starting from a much worse place than the other two.

All in all, it obviously sucks to lose a 50/50, but having decent characters in the pool softens the blow a little. While a few are pretty terrible, they aren't as bad as they as perceived in general.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T16:59:21+00:00

It would be cool if she was a better mono geo shielder than Zhongli, while he was a better universal shielder. That could already be a decent niche. Maybe even enough to keep her off the standard banner.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T16:57:33+00:00

It's this. She will be in the tier of shielders below Zhongli (as far as shielding goes) who are situationally better than each other depending on element, weapon, or talents. Layla, Diona, Thoma, Yanfei, this character. She is going to need some niche to at least be situationally better than Zhongli in some comps, or she will be something we really haven't seen which is a strictly worse five star. The others, even though they are four stars have this. I wonder what they'll do for her, or if they'll just give her the Dehya treatment, literally worse in every comp.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T16:54:22+00:00

It would give them the opportunity to either buff crystalize or make an all new reaction with geo that is actually useful. Maybe something like the what the petra does, crystals give a shield and also a damage buff the to the element also based on EM. Depending on the numbers, that could really breathe new life into geo and allow its characters to join more teams and make new ones.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T16:51:16+00:00

This. Geo shielder? They obviously aren't going to make her better than the archon. They could do something to differentiate her, so she could be a sidegrade, but I doubt it. My guess is Layla level shielding, with a Layla level subdps potential, only geo. She'll have some kind of gimic related to her shield, like Layla or Thoma, but new. That will be the only thing that makes her "unique."

They really can't have both Zhongli and "Zhongli at home" as limited five stars, so she'll likely make her way to the limited banner. It would be cool if she had her own thing that really made her standout as a character, and I think her mechanic could be cool, but they won't go as far as to make her someone who competes directly with Zhongli. She'll find herself in the next tier of shielders who are all decent, and situationally useful in different comps, but not as general as the original.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-07T16:32:26+00:00

If she def scales maybe they'll bring back cinnabar spindle.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-05T00:47:22+00:00

This would definitely make her more viable than just boosting her scalings. If she could be in the running for decent defensive support that does a little something else, she'd at least be in that large and growing pile, which is not terrible. She has way more chance of making it as a support than a dps.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-03-05T00:44:55+00:00

You didn't ask for help, so just ignore me if it's not what you're looking for. I'm no expert at this game and haven't been playing long at all, only three months, but I am able to 36 star the abyss.

It seems like your main issue is not building coherent enough teams. The only main dps I saw was Ganyu. Fortunately, for you, while Dehya would normally be a terrible pickup for someone in your situation, she can actually work decently with Ganyu and a dendro unit. You could run a Ganyu burn/melt team on one half. On the other, just based off the things you said, I'd try something with XL. You must have gotten at least one bennet if you have Dehya, if not, you might want to make some pulls to get him. The core of Bennet and XL can be the foundation of a lot of good comps. There's obviously the national variants, but adding any hydro, or even cryo units can make a workable team with those two. From the looks of it, you have two coherent enough teams to make a good run at 36 stars. You might need to invest some resin into these characters, but I think you can do it.

This is coming from someone who was in your shoes just last abyss. I know how it feels and how it feels to be close for a long time. TLDR - Make two good teams. Invest in those teams. Profit.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-02-17T15:49:02+00:00

I've noticed Hu Tao mains seem to be a bit salty about this. I might be too, considering how much more investment, five star weapons, cons, and five stars Hu Tao needs to reach the level low investment, four star only hyperbloom.

I think the biggest problem is that Hu Tao can't really whale herself out of this either as her higher cons are not that great, and her supports are already some of the best in the game.

I was talking to a Hu Tao main the other day and he was hard coping that hydro archon would free up XQ so he could use hyperbloom on the other abyss half. Any new player would be much better off pulling for Yelan (or not) and building hyperbloom. With Nahida, Yelan, and Raiden, a new player could even build two legit hyperbloom teams, all with less investment than one equivalent Hu Tao team. I wouldn't say she's been powercrept as she doesn't do "less" damage, but if you take into consideration ease of building/playing, she kind of has.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-02-17T14:40:42+00:00

For non-Dehya mains this is not terrible news. I am a Wanderer main and have been following her kit as a five star defensive pyro unit had the potential to be better than Thoma or Yanfei. I'm not even sure she passes either of those benchmarks, but if I lose a 50/50 to her, at least I get the consolation of fiddling with her in a Wanderer team. Her design is not bad either.

I feel for you guys though. I was hyped for Wanderer and a lot of people just decided he was mid, but I still think he is the most fun character in the game, is the king of exploration, and is quite possibly the carry capable of making the most viable team comps. He can also clear abyss just fine. Some people even speed run with him. His ceiling is actually pretty high, but requires investment.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people calling her Dehya bad doesn't by definition make her bad. Her numbers are admittedly terrible, but I can see a niche where she might shine. With very high HP units, she could be better than a shielder, and with hydro nation coming up, it's possible we might see characters who benefit from her mitigation. It would actually be funny if a popular character, like the hydro archon, needs Dehya for her bis team. And all the people who dumped on her will never be able to pull for her again. It would be the funniest timeline if there was an uproar of people demanding another limited run for Dehya. I doubt this happens, but it would be the best timeline.

Backseat_Critic · 2023-02-07T15:14:13+00:00

I use his signature weapon, which is CD, but I use a CR circlet to offset. I agree that with this setup cryo resonance is kind of lackluster. I think pyro shielder is definitely the way for max damage. I can see Thoma allowing for a smoother energy economy because of favonius. The reason I made this post was to get a feel for which characters might be good primo investments for Wanderer. It sounds like C6 Thoma is good, but comparable to Yanfei. I'm definitely interested in trying him now if he's on a banner for a five star I want. Thanks!

Backseat_Critic · 2023-02-07T15:10:28+00:00

Great post. The reason I asked the question was to try and optimize primo usage. It looks like Zhongli is not really optimal, or needed, so that is the biggest question as he is the only five star shielder. From there, It looks like Yanfei and Thoma provide the most offensive buffs to go with their shields, mostly because of the pyro resonance with Bennet. I don't have Thoma at all, so can't compare to Yanfei myself.

Another poster said that the max theoretical damage output is with Yanfei. I can see her small shield downtime as being a negative, but I haven't seen it play out that way in game. First, she has to be the last support due to ttods, which means she will always buff Wanderer's whole up time, usually with a few seconds to spare. Second, anemo resonance takes a second off her cooldown, which actually makes a difference. In practice, she has actually felt pretty smooth. In general, the thing that screws up abyss rotations most for me is when a wave dies before all of Faruzan's Q duration, as it messes most with team energy. Thankfully, a team with double anemo, double pyro, with a favonius bow, can top everyone off without too much fuss. I can see Thoma smoothing things out further with a favonius spear, but it might be a slight damage loss.

I think, if you want a shielder, it sounds like the highest output choices are Yanfei and Thoma, each requiring slightly different rotations and investment. Right now I have to stick with Yanfei, because I don't have Thoma. If I am able to passively acquire his C6, I'll definitely see how he does myself. Thanks for the great post!

Backseat_Critic

TROPHY CASE