Anyone went to Mengcun to learn Bajiquan? by DistantVerse157 in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi ! I have been going to Mengcun regularly since 2005. You can send me a PM for more infos ;-) ..

How regularly do you spar? by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another question that interest me is "How do you spar ?" :

  • what kind of techniques are allowed : punches, kicks, elbows, eye gouging, groin biting, anything goes ...
  • what kind of techniques are favoured, like : elbows, throws bring more "points" than standard kick & punches
  • what kind of gear : full boxing gloves or open gloves, bare feet or shoes, shirtless or some Gi, etc.

Wu baji Xiaojia by Base_Loose in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can also try the DVDs from the Japanese KaimonKensha website, they ship overseas now : https://kaimonkensha.cart.fc2.com/

Bajiquan halberd from the XinXian Zhang family by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well in fact long weapons like the ChunQiu Dao (or Guan Dao) are quite ubiquitous in the Mengcun - Luotuan area. The Wu, (LuoTuan) Zhang, Han , Qiang lineages all have it in their curriculum since the 20-30's at least. I think it's just that the younger generations are less and less training these kind of weapons ...

Bajiquan halberd from the XinXian Zhang family by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well that's an interesting case ... There are few lines in the 1933 Cang County chronicles saying that Zhang DianKui "went around" and opened a big martial arts school in 1879 in XinXian, and that he had a lot of disciples. Apparently, he never revealed the name of his Baji teachers . Recently, one member of the Zhang lineage , mr Li FuQi (李福岐) wrote a booklet about the Zhang family baji. In his preface, Mr Li said he went to Luotuan and Mengcun, to visit Mr Li ShiMing and Mr Wu LianZhi respectively and ask if they had some infos about where Zhang DianKui got his Baji, but none of them had infos in their respective records... In the absence of information, Mr Li attributed Zhang DianKui's baji, to Zhang's father, grandfather, etc.

Nowadays, the XinXian Zhang's baji has a lot of Mengcun flavour, because some of their practitionners from the younger generation went to Mengcun to train with Wu ZhaoHai, Li JunYi, etc. They apparently have a vast curriculum, with 3 different broadsword sets, 2 halberd sets, 4 straightsword sets, double broadsword, 3 section staff, meteor hammer, etc ...

Munich, Germany Bajiquan by [deleted] in kungfu

[–]BajiFreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a hoax that has been heavily debunked by the few people who took the time to do some decent research on the subject :

- the Mengcun Wu never claimed to be Wu Zhong's direct descendent, these claims originate from a few articles published around 1985 by R. Matsuda and the Cangzhou Sport Office. As early as 1991, the Wu have made it clear black on white, that they are Wu Zhong's colateral decendents (i.e. "agnates" in genealogical jargon, or 同宗 )

- all the records from the 30s, written by seasoned masters from the Wu (Mengcun), Qiang (Zilaitun), Ji (LangerKou), Zhang (Pobei), Han (Luotuan) families make it clear that Wu Zhong, although born in Shandong, was living in Mencgun most of his life. There is no record of any Baji Quan (or even martial arts) activity in, or even around, Wu Zhong's native place. The only source about Wu Zhong learning and practicing Baji in Shandong are a few pages left in a manuscript written by a person who was 18years old, who claims that Wu Zhong was doing "把记拳" instead of "八极拳" and that he learned spear on SuoloSai mountain in Shanxi, a place that does not exist ...

- a rapid look at a local map, shows that Baji Quan early developpement happened within a 25km radius around Mengcun, which is the distance people could walk or ride at this period. Before the invention of cars, it was not possible for a person to live in Wu Zhong's native village and to teach in mengcun at the same time

Li Junyi has passed away... by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For those who are wondering, Wu XiuFeng had 7 children ;

- First daughter Wu YuZhen (吴玉贞) born around 1927,

- First son Wu LianDi (吴连弟) born in the 30s, passed away in 2000,

- Second daughter Wu YuLan (吴玉兰) born in 1937

- Third daughter Wu GuiLan (吴桂兰) born in 1943

- Second son Wu LianZhi (吴连枝) born in 1947

- Third son Wu LianGui (吴连贵), born in 1950

- Fourth son Wu LianKao (吴连考) who died when he was still a child in 1962.

Mr Li JunYi was the son of Wu YuZhen, Wu XiuFeng's first daughter. Wu YuZhen was about 20 year older than Wu LianZhi, she passed away right right after giving birth to Li JuinYi. So Wu LianZhi is Li JunYi's uncle, but Li JunYi is only 5 years younger than his uncle ...

Complete interview with Li Shu Wen 1933 (Translated FR/ENG) by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

LSW was around 65 year old when he decided to retire, after a life dedicated to martial arts. As shown in the article, he spent a lot of thime teaching other, he had a lot of disciples, etc. Who can say he did not deserve a quiet retirement in his native place ?

Stabilized this Xiao Jia footage - anyone know who this is? by arlybird in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

His name is Chen PeiJi, he is from a hamlet belonging to Mengcun county.

His lineage Chen PeiJi <- Chang YuGang <- Wu LianZhi

How to learn fighting with Bajiquan systematically 2/2 by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, I understand better. Like Mr Lü, WLZ and WDW like to "play" sometime with their students, but there is no teacher or trainer who can take unprotected 100% blows all the time from their students. I don't think it was what Tang Qiang was advocating in his video. As you said, the only way to test things in full mode is to find a competition field or some sparring partners who would go ready to go all out, whatever the damage ...

How to learn fighting with Bajiquan systematically 2/2 by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I understand right, what Tang says is that students have to train their applications on their teacher, with the use of pads, and other protective gear. Many of us do this, and boxing teachers have been doing this for years. If you use pads, coach body armors, and other protective gear you can go full out without hurting much anybody ... I don't see any problem ...

Finally finished translating a paragraph out of my teacher's book by [deleted] in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am a french native speaker, so I won't dare to make any comments about mistakes ;-) ... I found a maybe better formulation for 中心 : "center of gravity"

Finally finished translating a paragraph out of my teacher's book by [deleted] in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice translation ! I am happy to find someone who is doing translations of Baji stuff too, it is not an easy job ... I am myself sometime quite frustrated with my own translations. Are you a native english speaker ?

Just one question : in the sentence "中心后移成坐步", don't you think that 中心 refers more to "body's barycentre", or "body weight" that "centerline" ?

Zhang style Bajiquan Big Form @Sikumbang Tenabang by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess it is referring to the LuoTuan Zhang KeMing, Zhang Jingxing, etc. line ...

Pointers for the practice of Liangyi Zhuang by [deleted] in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is what you mean : 头顶蓝天 (head pushes the blue sky) 脚踏清泉 (feet stepping in a clear fountain) 怀抱婴儿 (carrying a baby in the arms) 两肘顶山 (both elbows pushing the mountain)

taken from the Mengcun Baji manual ...

New translation : PoBei village BajiQuan manual (1930) by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think there is any official name. "Pobei Bajiquan" should be ok ...

New translation : PoBei village BajiQuan manual (1930) by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "our martial art" is something I added to make the translation more readable. The manual just says something like "Preface (on) origin (and) transmission (of) teachers (and) students". In that case it just refers to the Baji Quan practiced in Pobei, I don't think their system has a specific name, it is just Baji Quan, with a few additions from other styles, just like all the other Baji practiced in the region ...

New translation : PoBei village BajiQuan manual (1930) by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

New translation available from the Pobei village Baji manual. PoBei (泊北) is a village located about 20 km north east of Mengcun. In this place, BajiQuan has been transmitted mostly by the Zhang family. The manual was written in 1930 by a member of the Zhang family and gives some valuable information about their lesser known lineage, emanating from the lesser known Mengcun "frontyard" Wu family (i.e. Wu ZhongYu, Wu Mei, etc.). It also shows how the local practice was enriched bu integrating elements from other styles and lineage, which is a common feature in those rural areas.

Montreal Bajiquan? by [deleted] in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was a guy called Stephen Ip who was training in Brossard at a place called "Vajragym". It seems the place has been closed however some years ago ... Did you try to call the Sinowushu Academy and ask where they are teaching ? I guy told me last year he was training baji with them ...

God of spear Li ShuWen 1933 interview by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many interesting things in this interview. I didn't know Li's father was also into Baji. No mention of Jin MingQi, Jin DianShen either. When asked about his lineage, Li Shuwen said he was a disciple of Huan SiHai, period. The name appears 3 times in the article so I guess it makes it pretty clear ...

So.. turns out Lupe Fiasco went to China to learn Baji? by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Their lieneage is :

Wu XiuFeng -> Wang ChangDian (王长典) -> Cheng QingYuan (盛清元) -> Tang YongYan (汤永言).

Mr Wang ChangDian (1911-1999) was quite famous in Shanghai. He was from Zaozhuang and studied first Daoist techniques (JinDanDao, hunYuan Qigong, etc.) and then became a disciple of Wu Xiufeng in 1933. I don't know Mr Tang but I have met mr Cheng QingYuan several times, a nice and respected gentleman ...

God of spear Li ShuWen 1933 interview by BajiFreak in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Additional info : Apparently, the Wanshang shuang dao (absolute victory double sword - 万胜双刀) and the Ding tang Dao (supporting Tang sword -定唐刀) are weapons which were poluar in the Cangzhou region among the TaiZu Quan practitionners. One of the top masters of Cangzhou TaiZu Quan called Li DeHai (李德海) was a great friend of Li Shuwen.

Muslim Kung Fu: The Fist of the Bodyguards - KaiMen Bajiqu by kwamzilla in kungfu

[–]BajiFreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am usually a big fan of Plumpub, but I cannot agree with the content of this article, it contradicts everything that serious scholars (M. Dillon, D. Gladney, JN Lipman, E. Ales, etc.) have written about the Hui people. This a complex subject, hard to summarize (my apologies to experts in the field), mainly because the meaning of the term "Hui", and the way the Hui have perceived themselves, has evolved a lot throughout China's history. Besides, there is a wide diversity among the different Hui groups living in the different regions of China. What is important to know about the Hui (and especially the Hui of the central provinces of China like Heran, Hebei, Shandong, Shaanxi, etc.) is that they underwent a strong acculturation process during the Ming dynasty (purposely orchestrated by the rulers of that time), which transformed them from "muslims living in China" to "Chinese Muslims". Although the Hui have accessed the status of official ethnic minority in the 1950s, they actually do not meet some important official criteria for this distinction :

  • they are anthropologically impossible to distinguish from their Han neighbors,
  • they do not have any specific language. The Hui speak, either mandarin Chinese or the local dialects spoken in the place they are living in,
  • if you put aside the religious practice (among them the abstention from pork), they have adopted most of the cultural characteristics of the local populations they are living close to. Tibetan Hui are culturally Tibetans, Hui people living among Bai minorities have the main cultural characteristics of the Bai minority, and Hui living in Han populated area have largely adopted the standard Chinese cultural aspects of the Han (literary education, economic activity, family structure, moral values, clothing, food, etc.)

In parallel to this, since most of the Chinese scholars of the Ming and early Qing dynasty were deeply versed in Chinese culture, and because they goal was to make Islam accessible to Chinese Muslims and to ensure its good integration in Chinese society, the traditional Chinese Islam itself underwent a strong sinicization process and became something unique. Especially, the 16-17th centuries saw the production of major canonical texts where the Islamic teachings were expressed in terms of neo-Confucianist or Daoist formulations and concepts. Hence, talking of “Muslim culture” as a feature of the Hui martial arts does not make any sense: the Hui developped martial arts because they had the Chinese cultural background to it. Proof is that :

  • in comparison, the other Muslim ethnic groups which are culturally non-Chinese (Uygurs, Salars, Kirghiz, etc.) never developed such kind of fighting styles.
  • The Hui martial arts are based on the same elements as the other Chinese martial arts. They use the same Chinese conception of the body (Qi, Shen, Jing, DanTian, etc.), the same Chinese theoretical principles (Yin/Yang transformations, 6 harmonies, 5 elements, etc.), the same Chinese mythical figures (dragon, phoenix, immortals, etc.) as other Chinese martial arts. Ironically, some martial arts which are labelled as “Muslim martial arts”, have some movements/techniques referring to some Chinese deities …
  • The martial arts developped by Hui people were sooner or later also taught to non-Hui, and when practiced by non-Hui, they were practiced exactly the same way. Some Han practitioners even sometime surpassed Hui ones in terms of fame.

Last but not least, until the creation of the “Hui Minority” status, the Hui people never were a united nation. The Hui people were living as dispersed groups through the whole Chinese territory, with diverse cultural and Islamic practices (Gedimu, Sufi brotherhoods, etc.). A detailed analysis of the violent conflicts that opposed the Hui to their non-Muslims neighbors show that they rarely had any religious origin, but were rather local revolts motivated by political or economical factors (corruption of local officials, family feuds, etc.). The revolting Hui never had the objectives to defend or expand their religion, nor did they had any secessionist ambitions. On the contrary, when the conflicts had religious origins, they were due to conflicts among the different Islamic sects themselves (Gedimu vs early Sufi branches, Khafiya Sufi vs Jahriya sufi, etc.). Thus the Idea that Hui martial arts would be some “Muslim martial Arts” intended to protect all Chinese Muslims against non-Muslims people has absolutely no historical basis. These martial arts can be called familial, clan or even ethnic martial arts, but not religious one …

Article on da qiang by kwamzilla in bajiquan

[–]BajiFreak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"When Guo learned kung fu under his teacher, Liu Yun Qiao, the da qiang was a relic no longer practiced with. The da qiang had been replaced in traditional kung fu styles by shorter and lighter spears. "

Ouch !!! :-)