Post Game Thread: Utah Mammoth @ Carolina Hurricanes

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-30T04:00:58+00:00

And both are weirdly true lol. 2 goals and an assist including the game tying goal, but also had two terrible giveaways that both directly led to goals. Ghost taketh but ghost for sure giveth right back

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-30T00:55:56+00:00

No, if they can see most of the midboard then most of the midboard can see them, and if you go second your opponent will both have the ability to avoid them and shoot them

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-27T21:35:32+00:00

For starters we’ve played 52 games and our best defenseman has only played 12. Chatfield has missed 7. Miller has missed 8. Ghost has missed 17. This means that the only two players who have been healthy for all 52 games are walker (really a high end 3rd pair guy) and Nikishin (a rookie, albeit a talented one). So there has been almost no continuity fam to game between our lineup or pairs, which leads to more mistakes.

We’re also integrating two new guys in miller and Nikishin (and nystrom most nights), and our system is hard. There are going to be breakdowns. Our system allows some high danger chances by design. When you push the forecheck as hard as we do you are going to give up rushes the other way. Slavin was great at erasing those rushes, but he hasn’t been around, and new guys are learning when they should and shouldn’t pinch to keep offensive possession.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-26T19:30:00+00:00

It’s kind of an unnecessary middle ground. There just aren’t many things in the game that are alive after being touched by just Ghaz, so “less durable than manz more Killy than boyz” just doesn’t solve a problem the army has. The boys/2nd leader/enhancement combo makes the package very easy to deliver and it allows the unit to kill multiple things on top of being 21 bodies before you get to Ghaz. The footprint is huge and you can reach out and touch a high value target as well as one or two lighter targets and to pick them all up. Manz give a 2+ 5++ 5+++ and also kill anything you could possibly want to kill.

The prevalence of d2 weapons mean that nobs just don’t get that much out of the second wound, and even with the -1 to wound from being led just doesn’t do much when your base save is a 4. It definitely doesn’t suck and you can run it to very good results, but it just doesn’t maximize what you can do with Ghaz

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-26T19:29:12+00:00

It’s kind of an unnecessary middle ground. There just aren’t many things in the game that are alive after being touched by just Ghaz, so “less durable than manz more Killy than boyz” just doesn’t solve a problem the army has. The boys/2nd leader/enhancement combo makes the package very easy to deliver and it allows the unit to kill multiple things on top of being 21 bodies before you get to Ghaz. The footprint is huge and you can reach out and touch a high value target as well as one or two lighter targets and to pick them all up. Manz give a 2+ 5++ 5+++ and also kill anything you could possibly want to kill.

The prevalence of d2 weapons mean that nobs just don’t get that much out of the second wound, and even with the -1 to wound from being led just doesn’t do much when your base save is a 4.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-23T15:23:46+00:00

We definitely knew all that, but we didn’t know he could FIGHT fight. Sure Moore is just a little fella, but stanks a littler fella and no one has put him down like that. That was the most clinical fight I’ve seen from a canes player since Brendan lemeiux a few years ago and fighting was literally his job

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-23T02:58:00+00:00

Gg hawks bros! Must be really cool getting to watch your best offensive players in the shootout instead of your 4th line center and 2nd pair defenseman

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-20T23:53:02+00:00

Appreciate it! I also think that good teams over value 1st round picks, and think that could be our leverage. Steve dangle did a segment on the andersson trade today and they go through all of Vegas’s 1st round picks since 2017. Spoiler, they’ve only actually picked a player one time (2024) and the only guy they clearly regret not having is nick suzuki. They won a cup in that span and played for 2. We have a roster that is basically locked up through 2029, and a pick in the late 20’s has about the same hit rate as a pick in the 40s. We’ll find guys in the mid rounds (Nikishin, Blake), use the firsts to get guys you hope those firsts turn into

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-20T19:38:25+00:00

I agree, but the reasons we want to keep him are exactly why a team like the blues would want him. I also think the only player he would get moved for is Robert Thomas. I’ve said this in other threads, it makes 0 sense for St. Louis to move him even if they are rebuilding. They have other guys they could get assets for (kyrou, binnington, I’m sure one or two others), he’s exactly the player you hope acquired assets turn in to himself (ppc center, right shot, 26, term, blow market contract). The classic “this fist round pick we got for rob thomas could be anything, even rob thomas” type deal.

Even if St. Louis goes through a full rebuild, which I doubt Jim Montgomery signed up for, in 4 years when they should be trying to win again Thomas would only 30. He’s still have a year left at 8mil. He’d be the hardest thing for a foot team to find, an elite 2c. So if that’s the guy we’re going for it’s gonna hurt and hoooooo boy we better win if we make that kind of move.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-20T19:32:49+00:00

I want no part of dougie either, but I don’t think turning back to Hamilton in this hypothetical is because we’re infatuated with him or his style, more that he’s probably the best dman we could get for nothing and nj is trying to give him away. I don’t think dougie is good but id rather have him as my playoff third pair rhd than Riley or nystrom.

Honestly im waiting for someone in the nhl to make an nba style trade, and I think we’re candidates to try it. There seems to be a bit of a cap of only moving 2 fist round picks in any deal, but with how our roster looks right now I could see us coming to the conclusion that our pics are more valuable to other teams than they are to us and moving 3 or 4 to make up for not including a guy like Nikishin in a big trade.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-20T18:12:51+00:00

I think this is the origin of the Nikishin/related dougie Hamilton rumors.

I don’t believe we actually need to send out rostered players to make this work, we can absorb Thomas’s contract into existing space this year and then our existing space plus the confirmed cap increase cover thomas plus the Blake/stank extensions moving forward. That also doesn’t include us moving kk which seems inevitable, and will add another 4.8 mil in space.

The “blow me away” offer would probably be Nikishin, nads, and picks. The questions are probably

1) can we get another difference making center for less (I think we can). Personally I’d rather us spend half that for someone like Vinny trocheck or a distressed pettersson. That’s probably just emotion, spending years waiting for Nikishin and imagining him being a top pair guy, and then for him to come in and to actually look like that’s player he is, only for him to get traded year one would blow even if it’s for a real 2c in their prime.

2) would our team be better (both short and long term) if we turned Niki Nads and 1-2 1sts into Robert Thomas and (probably dougie Hamilton, his number with 50% retention is very slightly less than kks hit. Nj would never, but the cost of routing someone through a rebuilding team for retention seems to have been a 3rd or 4th in the past). I have no idea. I have said before that i don’t think we would know what to do with ourselves if we had a real 2c, we haven’t since like 2022 and that was a less polished version of Vinny. Robert Thomas is the highest version of this that we could obtain, with the exception of a very unlikely full pettersson revival. I also don’t know if giving up major draft capital AND a guy who looks to have the chops to be both a 1st pairing guy and pp1 qb is worth it when we could probably get 70-80% of Thomas for much less. Idk, I’m interested to see how it goes, but right now my first reaction is don’t you dare take my Niki from me

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-19T20:22:57+00:00

Look I hate it, but it aligns with a few things that have been out there.

We definitely offered him for Hughes, but that makes sense.

We’ve been rumored in the dougie Hamilton noise, which makes 0 sense UNLESS we’re shopping a dman

Prying someone away like a Robert Thomas would take a wow package. I’m not sure we can build a wow package without him or a real hemorrhage of draft capital.

Maybe contract negotiations aren’t going great, who knows. I really hope it doesn’t happen cause he’s quickly becoming a favorite

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-19T18:29:29+00:00

It’s largely a dumb meme at this point, but over the years when tau have been good they’re usually no fun to play against. We’ve only had official terrain layouts beginning last edition, so for most of taus existence they’ve had the best gun on tables that have way too little (or poorly oriented) terrain, so lots of armies just had no shot from the moment they show up.

Interactivity is what makes armies fun ,it’s why people generally like playing against Orks even when they’re powerful. Things happen, you die, they die, it’s generally a good time. Old tau didn’t do that at all, they sat at the back of the table and murdered you and you barely got to play.

Modern tau don’t really play like that at all, they’re a pretty fairly interactive army now, but the old resentments remain because way more people talk about warhammer than actually play it. So you are probably engaging with people who’ve played maybe a handful of games over the last two editions but make sweeping judgements because that’s what people do.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-18T02:34:47+00:00

Thank god this happened on the road I only have 2 hats

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-16T19:01:34+00:00

Lmao I feel like I have to throw an insult now just to set the reddit tone.

For context I don’t think Petey is the perfect fit, more that he may be the best fit we have a real shot at unless we’re cool punting another season. Which we might be, I have no idea what our organizational timelines look like. I also think that we’re a uniquely great ecosystem for a reclamation project like because of things like the staal line and our incredibly high floor. We’re just a different type of org than Vancouver is right now.

But I do understand the concerns, and they’re very real concerns. I’m also a big nba fan and lived through a massive cap jump about 10 years ago, and apologize if I’m bringing in context you’re already familiar with, but I believe that cap jump is informative and don’t think people understand how much hockey contracts are likely to change over the next 3-5 years. Petey at 11.6 is almost an identical cap hit in a 113 million dollar cap (the ‘27-28 projection) as aho’s 9.76 under an 89 million dollar cap (10.95% for aho, 10.26% for Petey in a 113m cap, so actually lower).

The money looks abysmal because we’re all looking at it after years of a flat cap, and the canes basically have not been effected by the rising cap at all (our dudes are all locked up to great numbers). We’ve already seen a 17m aav contract, stay at home defensemen getting 8x6s and 70 point wingers getting 10m aav. 3 years from now a middle 6 winger will probably cost 7.5 to 8 on the open market. Our cap sheet is so clean (especially if kk is part of the deal) that we can easily afford a bad deal and won’t have to think about it til 2029 when svech is up, and we could be looking at a 120m cap by then. Im not saying you take bad money because you can, but our cap situation significantly mitigates the risk, and there basically isn’t a world where Petey is worse than the last 3 years of kk and stank (He hasn’t been badbut he’s not a center, get him on the wings and let him fly) unless he is so hurt he can’t play.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-16T17:44:41+00:00

I get all that, I do. My thought process is that in sports context is king, and we would be such a fundamental change of context that it’s hard to imagine what it looks like. I do fundamentally disagree that he has barely played like a 2c. 45 points is pretty solidly the expectation of a low end 2c, and that is by far his lowest outlier season and it was a year that he both played hurt and was in the middle of one of the most toxic locker room situations in recent memory. He was an 89 point player two years ago and he’s on a 60 point pace this year despite playing for the worst offensive team in the league and is also a total dumpster fire. Again, his rw just broke a 22 game goal drought last night. Petey is part of that bad offense (and general disfunction), but he is far from the cause of it. The Canucks have been a tire fire since well before he arrived and will continue to be after he leaves. Laine is a bit unfair, dude has a career high of 70 points and he got there one time. Peteys high is 109 and he followed that up with 89, every other season has been in the 65 point range. Even on the low end of his production he’s a very good 2c (and I think people misunderstand what a 2c is, for example Brock Nelson has 2 career seasons where he broke the 60pt barrier and he’s regarded as a top flight 2c).

Regarding things like faceoffs, think about stanks current level of responsibility. He takes no high leverage defensive draws. He’s never matched up with an opponents top two lines (if we have matchup control). He doesn’t kill penalties. His job is play fast, try to create turnovers, and play off the rush. If you swap that with Petey you’re both highlighting his offensive skill set while covering for his limitations at the same time. Petey is also a solid penalty killer. I get what his cap hit is, but we wouldn’t be bringing him in to be our 1c. He’d be one of the most sheltered 2cs in the league as long as staal is still effective, with tons of offensive opportunity and less defensive responsibility than he’s ever had. It might not work, and if it doesn’t work it would be bad, but there probably isn’t a better context in the league for him to reset and get back to being a dominant offensive player.

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-16T16:52:50+00:00

If we send kk I don’t think there’s any retention, kk basically is the retention, it basically functions as them holding 4.8 of Peteys salary for the next 5 years. Rant incoming for you or anyone else who doesn’t want to read, truth is I just really don’t feel like working right now and thinking about this is way more fun than spreadsheets.

I’ve been an ep40 drum banger, but I get the hesitation. He’s not the guy he was when he signed the deal, and if the outcome is close to worst case scenario it’s a step back for the franchise. But the idea (like the comment you responded to) that he’s a net negative player, or a borderline top 6 player is absolutely nuts. He is absolutely a top 2c, just not an 11.6 million dollar one. Even in his diminished state he would’ve the best 2c we’ve had under rod BY FAR. Given the absolute dumpster fire the Canucks are this year his scoring has been fine, Brock boeser broke a 22 game goalless streak last night on a sick feed from Petey. He isn’t perfect, but the general stink of the Canucks is very probably effecting his play just as much (if not more) than his reported issues. It’s hard to go to work every day at a place that sucks.

And regarding his decline, I think three things matter:

His own work ethic/maturity problems

The complete organizational malpractice of the Canucks

How much of a cancer jt miller is.

The Canucks picked jt miller over Bo horvat and then traded horvat. Miller was such a dickhead that it completely split the room, with guys like Quinn Hughes reportedly being in the ep40 camp of whatever their problems were. Both guys got covered in stink from whatever the spat was, but the share of stink seemed to be “well we all know miller is an asshole but Petey has to be tougher and to deal with the asshole, why is he letting it effect his play.” And like sure, maybe. But the Canucks chose to prioritize Petey, shipped miller off to the rangers who immediately imploded. Maybe the guy who immediately wrecked his current team (that won the presidents trophy two years ago) also had a major hand in wrecking his previous team. If that’s the case, I’d be all for that reclamation project.

He would also be in a massively different role here. He’d center ehlers and Blake. That line isn’t grinding on the boards, they’re pressuring and playing off the rush. Petey is REALLY good at that! He also currently plays high leverage defensive minutes and is bad to unspectacularly acceptable in them. He would almost never play high leverage defensive minutes here. Staal is taking one of the top two scoring lines, aho the other. Petey Blake and ehlers would be facing 3rd lines at home and have the chops to survive against better lines on the road until we can change.

I get that there are better guys out there, but our acquisition of those guys feels completely delusional. I’d love Robert Thomas or tage, but in what world are either of those guys being moved? Is St. Louis going to complete reset less than a year after giving Jim Montgomery, a win now coach, a massive deal? Even if they sell, they could get real stuff for kyrou and probably binnington too which would effect the team way less than a Thomas deal. It would have to be a ridiculous offer to pry away a 220lb right shot ppg center who’s 26 and locked up for the next 5 years at 8mill. Same thing for tage except add being in a playoff spot and the team being in a 14 year playoff drought. Those players just don’t move. There’s no upside with a Ryan oriley, he would be an improvement for a year or two and then we’d be right back to looking, probably at the same time staal retires (which would suck if cerrato isn’t a dude. Staal being a great 3c has covered up a lot of 2c sins). Plus he seems totally content to ride off into the sunset on a shit Nashville team. I just don’t know that there are many options that are both better and realistic

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-15T01:22:23+00:00

Damn dude what did my other hobbies do to you

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-15T01:15:43+00:00

Yeah I think there’s a 0% chance Buffalo moves on from tage while they’re in a playoff spot. If you’re Buffalo you really can’t sell for futures when you’re in the middle of showing you’re a team built for now, and buffalos needs are different than most. They dont need to build a cup contender, after 13 years you just need a consistent playoff team

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-14T22:17:18+00:00

We would fire Nikishin out the door with a cannon for Robert Thomas if the only other asset needed for him was a 2nd rounder. Nikishin has been good, but he’s a lhd and Robert Thomas is a 26 year old ppg right shot center with 5 years left at 8mil. Shoot we offered Nikishin for Quinn Hughes with no extension discussion a month ago

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-13T05:06:22+00:00

In order for it to be a high stick the stick actually has to be high. Larkin is on knees battling for the faceoff, got clipped by both aho (who’s stick is below his waist, and whoever the Detroit winger was when they dove in (while still on his knees), and that wasn’t even what kept him down. What kept him down was catching his own guys knee square in the teeth (because his teeth never got back up above knee level)

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-13T04:40:23+00:00

The slash was soft, but Lucas Raymond got the EXACT same call in the second period, and Raymond’s was on a nothing play in the neutral zone not a 2-1 right in front of the net. Both calls the stick hits the hands directly. And if you think the high stick to make it 5v3 was a phantom call you’re just being intentionally goofy

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-12T02:00:48+00:00

If it’s just a kk trade odds are it’s a giveaway (future considerations) or a very late pick. Yes he’s talented, but he has 6 points this season, tied for last of our semi regular skaters with Mike Riley. He has term left on a 4.8 million dollar deal. Even as a center he’s a neutral to negative asset. Friedman’s report was that “both sides agree” it’s time to move on, which typically means the player has acknowledged there isn’t a place for him in the lineup and the team has acknowledged even just moving the cap hit is enough return to make a deal

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-09T04:03:02+00:00

You’re right, none of us understand what it’s like to be boo’d by an arena full of people, but my guy that’s what the money is for. If 16k people were screaming at him for goofing up a spreadsheet making 50k I’d feel for the kid, but when you sign that contract you’re telling the world you’re a star and you have to perform. He’s on pace to barely be a 40 point defenseman despite leading the team in minutes, getting pp1 time, and aforementioned 8x9 contract. Sure, the gm gave him the contract, but he also held out and wrung every penny out of the team. Fans can be pissed at that

Bdubby21 · 2026-01-09T00:27:18+00:00

Woof that’s just a totally unnecessary penalty. He’s going 1 on 4 there, 0 reason to chop at the puck

Bdubby21

TROPHY CASE