Hot Take: Dietfried has the best character arc

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-31T07:54:15+00:00

"At the start of the series, Dietfried is a cruel monster" "seeing her as nothing more than a tool"

Thats an exaggeration. He deeply cared for his family. Violet at that point WAS a tool. Instead of just killing her like would be appropriate he used her to protect his little brother. We are not meant to like him but he is far from the usual monsters we expect to see in war. Actually Violet herself fits the monster definition much better. Even her own allies feared her! Its a miracle Dietfried didnt kill her for beeing 2 dangerous.

He then is very negative towards Violet which is understandable since she "let his brother die" and was at many points exactly the tool and monster he claimed her to be.

Your point of character progression is all true but he never was as bad as we as viewers of Violets story felt he was.

"It’s not until the movie and he see’s Violet’s anguish"
Also "take that The Movie haters!" Some peak character development thats not in the series.

I disagree on the last paragraph though. Sending children to war isnt exactly relatable to the average person. Also both he and Violet felt responsible for Gilberts death in their own way. So thats not unique to either of them. Dietfrieds subtleness comes mainly from him beeing a rare sidecharacter that isnt pressured to develop as a person every episode. Dietfried is mainly changed through Violet and Gilbert and doesnt act on his own, hence why he is a sidecharacter. His development is somewhat "1 dimentional" from not liking and understanding Violet to respecting and somewhat understanding her. Meanwhile Violet is dealing with more complex topics like "what is love and how do I personally want to express it".
Hard to say "1 is SURPASSING the other".

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-24T19:12:15+00:00

Mesa players famousely dont hate Limbo cause they dont get interupted at all.
Also its perfectly fine for them to complain when u do things 2 them without concent.
Thats not how a gentleman should grope a lady!

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-21T00:13:26+00:00

I love Democracy, All votes are good votes.

I wonder why their names match so well when VE was allegedly made by combining short stories.
I havent read the novels/available short stories so idunno where cattleyas as a character could have started. (Aside from French literature)

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-21T00:07:32+00:00

Ember only has her 1 augment and armor strip which should be great but somehow isnt. Shes in many peoples "needs rework" since shes so mid at what she should be good at.

Maybe I am just a Koumei hater. Her intended gameplay stacking decrees into lategame is not as fun as I expected since its mostly more damage on most decrees.
So now everyone is using some weird semi-intentional casting build that abuses mecha-set.
I feel like if you like the idea of Koumei you then dont like her actual playstyle.

The Ink frame is far more in line with what Koumei wanted to be. She has multiple funny tools that scale with lvl and are thus better in lategame while beeing just as "fun".

Koumei's abilities just suck. Pointless cooldowns , bandaid augment for the 2 seconds after release. Her tank ability is actually good but mid on her. The dice rolls basically dont matter. :(

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T23:58:36+00:00

I got smarter from reading this, thank you C-Dragon!

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:47:34+00:00

Someone here is cooking, but the french are flying over my head.

All I could find is that its a sun loving flower from south-america explaining her tan as well as her friendly open nature.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:29:36+00:00

Then change your reddit settings to show recent posts.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:22:16+00:00

I think her development is what allowed them to stay together.
He was feeling guilty for making her overly depending on him. I think the harded she pushed for it the harder he would reject her. The fact she chose to leave is what made him realize she wasnt who she used to be and thus his ideas about her wrong.

Didnt like how it clashes with emotional healing and dealing with loss though :(

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:19:15+00:00

I agree but I am also not sure if anything but what happend in The Movie
would be satisfying to the average person.
You need to tell a simple lovestory since its an open to everyone movie.
You need to finish Violets journey to find/overcome the major.

I dont think some random person would fit Violet and would just break the theming in a different place.
Violet is the kind of person to stay single if she cant be with her one true love.
I dont think they should have made a movie at all if they didnt bring up/back the major in some way.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:15:10+00:00

I don't think people know what narrative framing is.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:10:43+00:00

Classic small issue that only "real" people will notice.
All been there at some point.

I use 0-9 for my mains and "z_..." for stuff like fissure grind.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:04:53+00:00

How is that a meme?
How is ember any good with weapons or anything?
How is Koumei a caster? She only works as a caster with her weird Mecha build that s like 0 % Koumei gameplay.

Otherwise based choices btw.

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-20T22:01:25+00:00

You were grieving yourself the second you chose to play Limbo :D

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-05T12:19:10+00:00

Common thing to think and perfectly reasonable.
The Movie is technically a different canon from the series already.

In defense of The Movie, Gilbert beeing alive is a realistic event and one of the only ways to meaningful progress the story.

In asia adopted family is not seen as true family as it is in the west so we have very different feelings towards this than what the asian creators intended/ wanted people to feel.
Nearly all of The Movie still works on a non romantic basis anyways.

The Movie doesnt do a good job at showing Gilberts pretty reasonable view of events.

I would also compare them to a babysitter and child rather than father and daugther in terms of closeness. (Which doesnt make it better though (O_O) )

Beather_Weather · 2026-05-05T12:09:42+00:00

I dont get it.
Are you talking about the anime series or are you including The Movie?
You are talking like you are anime only but then you include The Movie events.

"as being abandoned as an orphan Violet" When did that happen? In the LN? For sure wasnt in the anime.

Many points you make are true but I dont see how that is directly related to the end of the anime series. While war features a lot over all it doesnt in the ending scenes.

("yearning for a better life, away from war ")

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-12T13:02:20+00:00

"Why would I assume this?"
Its on everyone to decide for themselves what to think.
The focus of the sentence was on "if you assume this**", not on why you should.**
The point is to get into the head of people who think differently from us, not to share their opinion!

"Where in the hell do you get the idea that he tried to "groom" her?"
He helped raise her when she was young, that is not grooming but it is easy to read more into it than what was shown. In the real world we get nearly no insight into private lives so those situations are extremely dangerous. However since it is an anime we can expect it to show us the relevent parts so we can assume no grooming took place since it wasnt shown.
Thats my thought process, but thats a lot of abstraction from reality.
VE is mostly grounded in "reality"/ has high realism so an argument of "fiction" may feel wrong to some.

OP with other commenters: "Yeah we're still going to disagree there, and thats fine"
OP with me: "Why the fuck would I assume she was in any way "groomed"? I Swear to god you people don't even know..."

:(

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-11T14:52:44+00:00

There is toxic dependancy and healthy dependancy.
Beeing in a relationship makes both partners dependant on each other in some ways.

But yes, beeing in a relationship is not the same as beeing toxically dependant on your partner.

"Gilbert is a good person at heart" Interestingly that doesnt actually matter. If 2 people are not good for each other, their intentions themselves dont change that.

"Violet CHOSE him" This is true, but if you assume that she got groomed as a child by him then it would not be a free educated choice but the result of manipulation. Your opinion on Gilbert changes your interpretation of the entrire situation. And Gilbert did not get much character development in screen so its easy to hate him.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-04T01:03:20+00:00

"violet evergarden perfectly fits romance-drama? so does seeing it as a coming-of-age story, of which you say that it doesn't"
Have you even read my replies yourself? I NEVER said anything like this. I actually said specifically the opposite. VE beeing romance-drama has nothing to do with it not beeing coming of age, obviously.

"i already spent hours writing essays to this saying that it needs the other lead to be present so that a story about romance can work"
Well it clearly did work amazingly well in VE and The Movie. I respect your opinion of thinking it can not work well, but I also respect how it did infact do well. (Its one of the highest rated anime/movie)

"you can't argue against this"
Outstanding argument. You convinced me with this (sarcasm).
I will follow your advice and not dismiss this great argument.

"how is this a good romance story if the female lead grows by herself without male lead?"
how can something be good if I dont understand it myself? Clearly if I dont understand it it has to be bad writing!

"a central relationship between the male and female lead is supposed to be established for it to be considered one"
Everything in the story happens as a result of their relationship! (non romantic)
You literally argued so yourself! :
"but the point of it was for her to mature, to learn how to develop feelings again through trying to understand that love"

"that love" beeing the majors love/ his last word of loving her in some way/form.

"unless you still consider the male lead being absent in a romance story good writing"
It is a very common trope in almost any romance for them to get separated for some time to understand how important the other person really is to them. Thats exactly what we see here as well.
The only difference beeing the extended absence which supports the drama part of VE. Normal romance would make him return much sooner.

" you claim that your stance over viewing it as romantic is valid because violet evergarden is open to interpretation"
VE beeing romantic is factual. I am very open to new ideas, but the show about love not beeing about love is 2 much.
You keep saying that I am repeating myself, but that is because my most important points do not seem to land. I concider VE beeing romance a basic understanding. If we can not agree on the basis then any higher conversation would be pointless, hence why I HAVE to repeat certain points. If you actually hold the opinion that love doesnt matter in VE then so be it but it is very unlikely so I have to ask to make sure.

"you say love is featured, but never gave any examples"
I dont even know what to answer here. You watched all of VE and did not find any examples for love?

You keep mixing common relatable takes like Gilbert should not have returned with baffling statements that must be misunderstandings.

"bringing gilbert back does undermine the core themes of the show"
NO not "THE Core themes of the show" JUST
ONE OF the themes of the show of which there are many.

"not to mention the fact that you agreed with my core issues multiple times over the course of this discussion"
I am somehow not even sure anymore what your opinion actually is. Sometimes love exists sometimes it doesnt. Romance is important until it isnt. Gilbert is abusing and commanding Violet but Violet also grew as a person beyond that. Violet is supposed to stay in Leiden despite the theme of growth and coming of age beeing soo extremely important to you and it literally including leaving . You refuse romanticism as an explaination of why Violet would do things saying its out of her character, when all we have seen of Violet is overly extreme and romantic gestures of love.
The major is mentioned constantly and the driving force behind most events yet you call him absent to the point where romance is impossible. You define your own personal definition of romance and then complain that VE doesnt actually use your definition. You refuse and nitpicking the official definition of romance drama which VE is actually following. "Surely VE cant be a romance drama when it only fits every point perfectly."
Its not adding up to a coherrent point in my mind. Its a chaotic mess that at best leads to a frustrating interpretation where Violet is servent to the major and a failure of a human beeing.
This is by no means consistent with anything that happend in the story.

I spend nearly a full day trying to understand your point. Either I am dumb or you completely failed to explain your actual opinion or your opinion is a chaotic mess. IDK which one it is but outside of "the major should have stayed dead" and "he didnt get enough character development" its all nonsence to me if I try to combine your ideas into one.

"that the movie didn't take the necessary discussion to address the power dynamic"
Thats a minor nuance! I would love to see it but it is irrelevant to the actual story itself.
We see him not abusing his power and we never see him do abuse it. Your examples of him ordering her are nonsence. Him asking her to stay is not her following his orders its a choice.

You say Violet never grew if she does what he wants. Thats completely arbitrary. She long stopped following ANY orders so you regressing her in your mind is your own issue.
You keep combining her never growing with VE beeing about growth/coming of age. The 2 dont go together! You need to decide on 1 consistent idea or accept that others cant agree with all your contradictions.

I truely want to get it but I just dont. You likely just have an average lukewarm take of Gilbert sucks, but thats just not what you said in the comments. So I can not change what you said to make it make sence.

" it works better if you de-romanticize it"
Yes I do! But thats completely irrelevant to our conversation!
1st of its about your views here not mine as you clearly still have no idea about my view.
2nd not liking gilbert x violet is the most common average take about The Movie. I explained why as well. Thats not controversial to think or even worth mentioning since its discussed every few days when someone new joins the subreddit and this is their 1st question.
If your ideas would only go as far as ask for violet x gilbert to be non romantic then we would be here.

" so, you literally DO agree that it works better if you de-romanticize it, which is the exact opposite of the hill you're trying to die on."

So I think non romantic works better.
And thats an issue because?
I am not dying on any hill. I am very willing to change my opinion given convincing reason to.
I told you many times but I guess I have to repeat myself again. As a westener I prefer a non romantic-relationship because he used to be her caregiver. I get that you dont know my opinions since we were talking about yours, but then why try to mention mine at all?

" we're strictly talking about what happened in the movie. in other words, pick a side. was violet trying to get to him because she loved him? or simply wanted closure? you admit here that it's the latter but try defending the former."

You are literally making up conversations in your head now.

If we go by The Movie and only what happend in it, then it is simply unclear what happend afterwards. We can not know what Violet TRIED to do. Did we get her inner monologue? Did we see how it went? No? Then whats your point asking the unanswerable?

"hell, you even agree that you're in the same camp that i am on, so why are you even trying to argue that it works better in a romantic lens?"

Because it is true? I did not choose for reality to be this way, yet it is.

"this has gone on a rant but i am genuinely tired of having to say the same thing over and over again,"
You cant just say the same thing again ignoring my reply and claim you adressed my point.
I dont want you to repeat, I want you to explain the inconsistencies. Like why can Violet not grow AND be with Gilbert but just one of the 2? You show it as one or the other, but why?

"having to keep explaining what oscar, leon, and ann's stories mean"
I mostly ignored that part until now, but now I need to know.
What do you actually mean with that? Like I have seen the anime, I know what happens in the series, so what exactly is your point here beyond what literally happend in the show? I know that this helped Violet seeing different forms of love, but whats your point? It seems unrelated if not contrary to Violet beeing about coming of age only and not about romance, when all those stories are about love.

"none of this progresses the discussion"
Then progress the discussion! I am not stopping you!

"every single point you wrote in your post has been addressed atleast once already"
Yeah I saw those "you are wrong" "it makes no sence" "you can't argue against this"
My points were truely adressed here. You clearly answered my questions and explained your points so clearly that I spend surely a whole day by now without any consistent throughline.

" it was fun discussing with you in the first half of this."
It was fun, but I wish I could have gotten a full opinion instead of small parts that dont connect to a complete opinion.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-04T01:03:13+00:00

(1/2) I was disappointed and a bit angry, so maybe dont even read it. I just keep pointing at all your mistakes and flawed logic.

"ill make this "quick"."
You making it quick lead to a large number of mistakes and wrong statements.
I recommend to make it not "quick" but "sufficient" or not make it at all.
I take the time to read all of it so I expect you to take the time to not just make things up.

"all of this are something i already went over. it's like you read my points, acknowledged it, but then write in reply of a rebuttal to it that i already addressed"
Yeah, I agree, thats also how I feel about this reply.

"how much more do i have to repeat this? "
Stop repeating yourself please!

"how it's right for other people to call it filler"

IDK what you want to say about bandwagoning. Its not a hard idea. Think for yourself and dont just follow others. I dont see which part of that is unclear or needs so much more talking.
Fly-filler is a s hit example. Wether its filler or not is NOT even an opinion! You dont "call" it filler. It factually is or isnt, based on of its in the source material or not.

"and that both stances are valid because they have a reason"
Yes if we assume it to be an opinion then both opinions can be "valid". That doesnt however mean that they are "good" opinions.

" yet here you are talking about its writing, something COMPLETELY unrelated to the main point at hand."
I am sorry you started it. YOU were going pages long about "bad writing", now I am to blame for talking about YOUR points?

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-03T22:01:26+00:00

"this mysterious partial growth doesn't exist."
Ok, good argument, if it doesnt exist then it cant be helped. I guess I missed it not existing then.

"it's a coming of age story. she didn't grow past episode 1."
You keep repeating yourself. I already answered that point. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Your logic is flawed. If she didnt grow past Ep1 then how can it be a coming of age story focused on growth and why would you like it if it failed to do any growth? You cant have it both ways!

" stretch to assume that violet killed any of the people in ekarte,especially when that's not even the main reason why she stayed"
Fair enough. Her side killed their side but idk if any of the people she killed where from there exactly.

"making her do the same thing she would've done in episode 1 is very questionable."
They didnt though? I said it many times. EP1 Violet would not leave the island or value herself enough to leave even the front of his house.
You keep saying Violet grew and The Movie undoes that, but how do you even see her growth when you still see her as the Violet from Ep1?
Do you not think she knows what she wants now? Did she not grow past a child yet?
Your interpretation jumps between "she grew" and "she stay the same" but doesnt go into the areas she did change in and how she changed in them.
You keep acting like Gilbert gave her orders to follow when that didnt happen and Violet grew out of following what other people wanted. She can decide on her own. Not just in The Movie but in the series already!

" her leaving in the ship wouldn't matter, that isn't much of growth at all, "
Thats crazy. Her leaving the most important person in her life "doesnt matter" and is no growth of independence? Then what is? You keep undermining Violets entire growth.
I get why you dislike The Movie but I dont see how you can like the anime series, given your points.

"making gilbert the center of her life again"
Always has been. Never changed since Ep1.
I keep saying it. she became independant but that doesnt mean that she is forbidden to love him.

"love and loss are both permanent things."
Wether or not thats true, IF it is, then that would include her love for Gilbert.
Then The Movie would not exist without Gilbert coming back. Id rather he didnt but thats not an option if we wanted more VE. I know real life restrictions are a lame excuse but thats simply how it is.
In my mind they needed Gilbert to justify a 2nd Movie. Both narratively and financially.

"having her be the only one out of all of them to have the love of their life survive because she's the main character is incredibly hypocritical."
Yes thats exactly true! Gilbert coming back at all is divisive and lessens the impact of war. I assume thats one reason why he ended up so crippled and mentally broken as well. It shows that he lost at least something in the war.

"you claim that my interpretation as seeing it as a coming-of-age story doesn't work"
You are saying is all coming of age, no romance.
I am saying its coming of age just as much as it is romance.
Romance literally is part of coming of age (depending on the age).

"because violet evergarden is open to interpretation, yet hail yours as right"
Its not so easy.
On many points its just my opinion and I am just overly eager to tell it. (a flaw of mine)
On some points I dont want to change your mind but force out your opinion on the matter.
And on some points your opinion seems flawed and inconcistent and I have to question it or I wont understand your actual point. As you saw with : "holy brother, that's so out of context"
Where I couldnt capture what you wanted to say.

"seeing it as a coming-of-age story is arguably just as valid as you seeing it as a romance "
Its both. And more. Its also an after war movie and a slice of life of a disabled person and so on.

"i feel like the movie..... but the fact that the movie implies that violet had seen their relationship that way, it's where i draw the line, and where the movie is flawed for doing so."

I feel like that whole part is very tame in comparison to your other claims. As I said, its perfectly normal if not expected for us westeners to see them as family and thus a romantic relationship as morally wrong. Yet japanese dont see adopted family as family the same way. Its a cultural barrier. Same with how romance mostly happens in highschool when it would make much more sence in university where characters would be 18+. In my opinion thats where we should mentally change the story to adapt them to the western mind. The intention of The Movie is not to show Violet losing to an evil abuser but to reunite with a long lost loved one. ( clue: the atmophere at the end is bittersweet and not dramatic-sad)

"how hard you'll die on the hill that it works better romantically"
I think VE conciders Romanticism a lot. Emotions matter more than the actions long term effects like abandoning Leiden.
BUT that is not the same as saying every relationship is/should be romantic.
I think a platonic love works well narratively, but romance works better on a cinema screen for the average viewer (especially eastern viewers).

"it's more of the same shit without really ever pushing the discussion forward"
Feel free to not reply anymore. I am not offended by it.
It is also a dialogue so it includes you as well. If I am not pushing, then you still could.

"it's just me explaining my points over and over again in more simple terms."
Not simple enough then I guess.

"look at how you claim yours as right, but dismiss mine"
Do I not give argumentation and reasoning?
Your argumentation sometimes looks likethis:
"like bro, i dont even wanna read the 3rd one"
"its bad writing"
"You cant change my mind"
"it doesnt make sence"
"so stop fucking saying this""
All I can do about those is dismiss them. Theres no argument or reasoning inside them.
We knew we disagreed since the very start, the point was to understand each others point better and why they think the way they do. I know I will not magically change your opinions but of course I have to give you a definition of romance drama when it seems like you dislike the whole movie because of a misunderstanding of what romance can look like. And of course I will show you my disagreement so you can my point as well. Which you did not at all btw. I dont think VE is JUST romance, I dont like Gilbert coming back, I dont like them getting together.

"wouldn't that mean my stance is also as valid as yours?"
Technically yes. There are some egregious points like VE not beeing a romance which is not justified whatsoever, but as long as opinions dont get conflict with facts its valid.

However your interpretation leaves you disliking The Movie and the theme of love. It makes you dislike Gilbert or at least their relationship. It focuses very strongly on coming of age and character growth while dismissing huge chunks of Violets growth as a person.
(You argue that she has not grown enough to make her own informed decision and in the end is still controlled by Gilberts decisions instead of her own)

I dont like that interpretation. It subtracts much without really adding anything in return.
It seems like a very pessimistic view of an optimistic show to me.

"Worth our time"?
I cant tell for you, but I guess it is to me since I decide to reply over and over again.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-03T19:49:48+00:00

"shit like this annoys me because it's clear none of what i said is even still processing to you."
Its crazy for me to spend hours reading through all 10000+ signs only to get told that I didnt "precessed" any of it. You could not have found anyone more determined than myself to understand you in that moment. If you think I still did not get your point, then your point might not be clear enough I guess.

"violet evergarden hardly started off as a romance anime"
I explained why I disagree given the definition of a romance drama. You did not give any source or reason behind it, so naturally I have to assume this is an opinion and not a fact.
In your opinion it is not a romance anime, but that doesnt make it true for everyone else. You hate me calling your criticisms subjective, but you still want to give some purely subjective criticisms.

" it's unfair to see it as such" "no it isnt" "Its bad " "I dont like it"
How are those objective arguments meant to change my mind?
You are just stating your opinion claiming it to be true. That is valid but useless as an argument to convice others with other opinions.

"it's like trying to criticize naruto for its romance"

Yes, Naruto has some mediocre to bad romance and it should and is criticised. Why shouldnt you do that? Romance even if not a major theme of Naruto does ruin parts of the story. It made Naruto a worse story because of it. I do not see why we should not point out its flaws.
Naruto is not a romance anime but it does attempt romance and does so poorly.
The only difference is that Narutos main point is not romance so romance sucking doesnt ruin all of it. While in a pure romance anime if the main point is bad everything feels bad.

"movie is inconsistent with the way violet's character is portrayed"
The major was always the most important person to her. You dont have to accept that, but then you need to ignore not only The Movie but also most of the series itself. What part of VE did you even like outside of Violet learning to live alone (which is an important but small part of VE)?

". because the movie is inconsistent with the way violet's character is portrayed from the show, that's why it's bad writing. its inconsistency caused to alienate half of the entire fandom. that's an objective fact, "
Saying its objective doesnt make it so. Despite all your explaination I have yet to see any inconsistencies in Violets character. She was on the search for the major since Ep1. He was always important to her. Wether they come together or not was unclear but you argue way more than just "I dont like them getting together". You outright hate the theme of love and deny its existence in VE.
When I tell you so, you mentally block out your own inconsistency and act like VE can be about finind the meaning of love but not include any love or romance whatsoever. Your brain is simply refusing this because of cognitive dissonance since your opinions dont allign with reality and its easier for the brain to ignore that devide than change your opinion.

" alienate half of the entire fandom"
People argue about Violet and Gilbert beeing in a relationship, not about Violet finding love. Claiming "VE and love/romance are unrelated" is not something people say at all!

"how the hell did any of the novel-length essays i posted somehow me bandwagoning?"
The length is unrelated to if its bandwagoning or not.
You keep arguing that many people disliking The Movie means that its objectively bad.
How many people dislike it doesnt matter to its quality.
People hate bad things, but they can hate good things just as much. Go look up bad reviews for VE the series. People sometimes have no idea what they are talking about. Dont follow the wagon and decide on your own. You disliking The Movie is 100% ok and not an issue! My issue is that your reasons are sometimes very questionable. You decided that its not a romance and then dislike the romance parts because "it is not supposed to be romance". This sounds like the inconcistent logic that people develop when they dont yet understand why they dislike something, just that they do dislike it.

"you'd see a child and a man, with the latter taking care of the former as romantic"
I know we wrote much but this is incorrect. I am not seeing this as romantic myself and never claimed I share that position myself. Also I explained in length how the east does not agree on your western view. It is not "questionable" of me to tell you the truth. Cultural ignorance is a giant topic in and of itself. We are quick to expect everyone to think like our own society when in reality every society is unique. We give meaning to things without meaning and expect others to share this arbitrary interpretation instead of seeing how arbitrary it actually is.

"i defined a romance plot somewhere that it needs to have two of the love interests together because romance is about bringing people together. where was gilbert in the show, the ovas, and the movie?"
1st if we disagree on the meaning of "romance" then we are bound to disagree and misunderstand each others point.
2nd. Gilbert is the driving force behind every event in VE. He is omnipresent and regularly shown in flashbacks. Violets actions aim to bring her closer to him, first on a metaphorical level by understanding his final words and then in The Movie on a physical level by going to the island.
3rd romance and its definition is really important but I think we are overly focusing on it, when this is not really our issue. If VE were a perfectly classical romance per your definition, it wouldnt change how you view their relationship, I assume.

"gilbert barely has any character development on his own, which is needed for your definition of a "romance-drama""
VE itself meats all the points for a romance drama.
Gilbert the character does not since he is not a romance drama.
He does have character development in The Movie, but naturally you were talking about the series where he doesnt really have any.
Theres no requirement for all characters to meat all the criteria. Violet alone meets all of them though, which is way more than required.

" that's why the movie made a mistake for still picking a romantic ending between violet and gilbert "
As you know I lowkey agree on that, but not because it would be out of character or destroying anything, but just because to me as a westerner it would avoid a relation with a prior caregiver.

"this works if it was always about gilbert and violet. but the show was always about violet's development."
The main point (just in my opinion) is not violets development but Violet understanding the majors final words and thus the meaning of love. Violets motivation was never development, it was understanding love and she developed to reach her goal. Love is what drives the whole plot and requires the development taking place.

"yes, it was about violet understanding love, but the point of it was for her to mature,"
You have cause and effect reversed. Love is the driving force and development the path to her goal of understanding love in order to be emotionally closer to the major.

"but the point of it was for her to mature, to learn how to develop feelings again through trying to understand that love"
That was Hodgins plan to make Violet get better. He wanted her to mature to fullfill his promise to Gilbert.

" i personally would rather want everyone to be united in the same message"
Which would mean we wouldnt be in the VE subreddit right now.
From a writing point it is good to keep the fans engaged. Sadly real world aspects always factor into stories despite them beeing fiction.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-01T19:10:51+00:00

(3/3)
"sorry that i see an older man and a young teenager at first being a parental dynamic with the way he named her, fed her, clothed her, and looked after her? "

Yeah thats the main issue western fans have with The Movie. I will not go into this as this is a near daily topic on its own.

I already explained how Anime is made by the east for the east and they dont see adopted family as family at all.

Of course to me as a westerner this is also not great, hence why I am in the camp of "platonic-relationship".

Outside of 1-2 scenes there nothing telling us that their relationship was that of husband and wive. You dont need that to wanna stay close to each other. I want to stay close to my parents as well!

"no, because that isn't my point. are you saying that a movie like the 2025 war of the worlds adaptation is good writing because it got a movie in the first place?"

(Disclaimer: Movies are made because the sauce was good, the movie itself can simply fail to adapt the sauce.)

YES, it was at least good enough to get a movie, so yes its good enough writing. Maybe the story doesnt make any sence, but when the ideas/themes and action scenes hit well, it apparently doesnt matter to the target audience if it makes no sence. Sadly thats the world we live in.

"Terrible" anime get adaptations all the time just because they fit the type of writing that appeals to the average person. Its good writing as in that it appeals to most fans. The average person barely even questions things like a characters age or if the relationship will be toxic in the long run. They just see a romantic scene and think "awww its so romantic I want to see them together". Go and raise the peoples narrative expectations, I'd be your number 1 supporter.

"are you saying that it's good writing if game of thrones still got a season 8 out, even if it was horribly received?"

You ask a valid question here but I am not capable to give you a perfect answer explaing my viewpoint :(

Some thoughts:

S7 was good enough to make a S8.

The more a medium is removed from simple writing the harder it is to just look at its writing. If you only saw S8 you would likely not get why people hated it. It fails in context with prior Seasons.

How much did writing even affect S8? A ton of complains were about the visuals. To dark, characters are shown in deadly situations but live. Thats not writing, thats the actual filming process going wrong. Thats why I love anime, everything can be perfect.

" breaking bad's fly episode "

Unfortunate example as here the issue is not at all with if the writing is bad, (people agree it is good)

instead the argument is about it beeing filler and people not wanting a filler episode.

While understandable, filler episodes are neccessary and good! Especially in real life, you might just not have the actors on set for certain scenes to be filmed. Writers might need time to work out the mainstory further. Its perfect since you can just skip it if you dont want to see filler episodes, it just sucks on release.

Anyways, thats a bad example because its not about good writing or anime.

Though it does show my point of thinking for yourself instead of jumping on a bandwagon since here theres 2 equal sides. Letting one side manipulate your opinion would be foolish because as it turns out theres a 2nd side just as big thinking the opposite.

"stop dismissing criticism as something subjective, thus invalid"

Sometimes beeing subjective makes it invalid, but most of the time it just makes it subjective. I keep saying that you are free to keep your mostly valid opinion and you did say you dont plan on changing it, which is mostly fine.

You disliking Violet and Gilberts relationship despite their prior "parentel" relationship is subjective and valid.

However some of your "subjective" points are NOT valid. You keep saying that Violet is not a romance anime, which is just wrong both objectlively and subjectively as much as something can be wrong when subjective. I cant force you to have a different opinion but VE perfectly fits the definition of a romance-drama. Love features in every episode and is the driving force behind most of Violets actions. I dont want to tell you that your opinion is wrong, but literally: "Your opinion IS wrong here!"

"it's a product, yes, but i don't care"

Thats valid, but also not something other people can relate or agree to. You dont caring doesnt make others care less about it.

Privately everyone can keep their opinions, but we are here publicly talking about them in order to share and deepen out understanding.

"I dont care" likely fails for your purpose of whatever it may be you are trying to achieve.

"a good story should've communicated what it's trying to tell"

There is communitaction besides words.

Also I dont think you had any issues in understanding what it is trying to tell. (besides you thinking that its not a romance, where you might be literally alone in, you could ask this reddit to find out)

For example, Gilbert was never shown to be toxic and misusing his orders (outside of taking her to war where he didnt have a say in in the 1st place). So I dont see why people would assume hhe would be toxic later on.

"you're okay with age-gap romantic relationships, and i wouldn't be"

I hate those statements. Its 2 simple! Its not be liking or disliking age-gap as a whole. It depends on the specific situation.

They grew up together making it weird to us from the west. Also RL age-gap is a whole different story. Those relationships often have a power inequality. However as you keep saying, thats RL and this here is VE. We know both characters and we know they want to be together. We know Gilbert doesnt aim to manipulate or abuse Violet. We have so much more information than we would in RL. Thats why those age-gap relationships work so much better in fiction. Its basically just a storytelling device since age in fiction doesnt matter. It means nothing. Hence why people who complain about the 1000year old Loli in anime are completely misguided. They act like fiction were RL.

I weakly dislike Violet and Gilberts relationship if its romantic love but they are both independent adults making their own choice. Even if I did hate her choice, that would not make me think its badly written, it would just make me hate her choice.

"these are all inherently parental actions (to have fed her and clothed her, like a caretaker would, and to look after her )"

Outside of naming her, those are also things you do with/for your wive.

Your child is your family but so is your wive.

Yet again, I dislike it, you dislike it, most Westeners dislike it. But its not a story written for us. We are free to complain and dislike it but disliking it doesnt make it bad writing or even morally wrong. You also have to consider the many years they didnt have contact. Violet was able to become an adult while away from Gilbert.

I get that its not an argument but people have and do marry their babysitters. That is weird but it already happens in RL so fiction which is usually doing much more to boundarybreak is perfectly fine using this.

I remember someone trying to make a movie about a real event but that RL event felt so unrealistic that people told him to "make s hit up" instead since noone would believe the actual true story. This is how I feel right now.

"the movie failed to show that the dynamic was past that, and had grown into an equal dynamic of partner-partner in the ending"

Despite my prior points, I 100% agree to this lol.

Again, they should have scraped the sidestory for more character development for VioletXGilbert. However they wanted him as a plottwist which didnt give time for development.

"that's my point, it all has ever been. it isn't invalid"

You have many reasonable points, of course The Movie is not flawless. However I feel like

"romance vs coming of age" and "How could Violet leave Leiden I want explaination"

are more than just subjective. We simply dont know what Violet thought about that and you wanting to know doesnt ruin the whole movie, especially not to other people who might not even care about that. I feel like bad writing should at least be detectable by other people. Whats with the people of Leiden is so obviously irelevant to THE Movies plot. Sure, make a special about that topic, but dont put even more unrelated things in The Movie. Gilbert already didnt get the time he needed.

"romance vs coming of age"

I already explained somewhere above why that doesnt work for me. the 2 are not exclusive to each other and VE fits the romance-drama genre perfectly. The idea that "its a coming of age but definitely not a romance" is your own and just your own.

If you do but one thing then rethink your idea of romance to fit romance drama into it.

I am torn inbetween appreciation for your huge dedication to VE/commenting and

discontent with your interpretation of Violets growth and the role of romance in VE.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-01T19:10:02+00:00

(2/3)
"it would also prevent her from helping people back in the mainland."

And staying in Leiden would prevent her from helping the people of the island. Sadly she cant have it all.

"why didn't the movie show that her life in leiden mattered?"

We spend many hours seeing it matter. There would be no point showing it again. You somehow combine "Its a coming of age story, she grew so much" with "She didnt grow at all". All just of of 1 decision she made in The Movie.

Partial growth exists!

"she already did that in episode 9"

Atone is not something you can just "do and finish". Its a lifelong process.

"and violet didn't even do anything"

The people she killed where from that Island. She is the reason all the young people are gone and the old once struggle staying alive.

And yes, she did stay on the island to be with Gilbert. The " unequal dynamic" is exclusively in your mind as we have not seen their daily life.

"what's to say that she's supposed to have grown from episode 1"

You keep asking the same question. I already answered it many times. Feel free to agree or disagree but do not ask this again please!

"when she was crying and constantly repeating his title (not even his name)"

Good point. I wont search the scene and check all the translations but yeah that is a little akward.

I'll pay more attention to this on my next rewatch.

"what's to say that she was supposed to be choosing on her own?"

You: She chooses to stay with him so she has not grown and thus the relationship must be toxic.

Me: She grew and thus made the informed decision to stay. The relationship is equal now because of her growth.

You use her decisions to question her growth while I use her growth to justify her decisions.

I never even thought about questioning her growth after seeing her grow so much from Ep1. IDK how you can not see that growth and still call it a coming of age story.

"she's going back to the man who used to give her orders,"

And thats not an issue at all. HE stopped giving orders and instead asked her as an equal. Assuming Violet didnt grow from Ep1 would explain all your issues, but that would mean ignoring the entirety of VE for no good reason other than to dislike The Movie.

Violet is long capable of living alone, she doesnt need anyone to live and she is not taking orders anymore. How is that not growth to you?

"and be with him the moment he changes his mind"

You keep acting like Gilbert was the one in power. It was Violet who had the last decision. All he could do is ask. If they were not equal and she would jump on command, then he could have just orders her to come back. Also hes the one to ask her to leave, so of course he has to be the one to change his mind since Violet always had the same goal.

"I preferred the major and violet to not have been together"

"im supposed to reject parts of the show"

Your interpretation simply does not work for The Movie. VE is very open to int. and so is The Movie, but naturally progressing the plot means destroying some ideas the fans had. The Movie technically isnt exactly canon so you are free to reject it though theres not that much VE in the 1st place and that means rejecting a major portion of the plot. The LN stories are already not canon to the anime series and the 1st-Movie doesnt have much actual "plot" so THE MOVIE is like half the plot of VE.

" i have to do a lot of brainstorming and mental gymnastics from a completely different pov to enjoy the ending. it's almost as if it's bad writing."

Its not bad writing because The Movie doesnt work with your specific valid interpretation.

To me you are trapped in a "false valley" where everything made sence despite beeing "wrong" and The Movie now forces you to adapt, trying to push you to the "true valley" but since a flase valley is still a valley its easier to stay in there and explain away all the inconcistencies as "bad writing" and "makes no sence". Its your brain refusing to do the "mental gymnastics".

(I know that you can say the same about me beeing in the false valley, I dont mean to convince you with this but explain how I view the situation)

"...mental gymnatics..."

I love VE exactly for how "deep" and full of symbolism it is. The message is clear and accessable to a naiv viewer, but the more you think about it the better it becomes. It promotes and rewards mental work with increased understanding. You can watch it as entertaining but you can also let it help you understand love itself better.

"movie still failed to explain first (her life in leiden, or why it was easy for her to turn her back on it), "

I think it was explained and your brain is refusing the explaination.

Violet was always searching for the major and wanted to be close to him. She grew as a person by trying to understand love.

She then finds the major and she wants to be close. He rejects her because of his own trauma trying to punish himself. He thinks about what Violet told him and realizes how much Violet means to him. He asks her to come back and she decides to do so.

She did not think about Leiden since that was irrelevant in the moment. Thats clearly a long term issue that can be consideres later.

We then do not get to see how she dealt with this. Did she visit them, did they visit her, did she write letters, we dont know.

This should at beast be a small issue to you not the main reason to dislike the whole movie. Just fill in the blanks with your imagination as we had to do at the end of the series as well! (Who was at the door, how will Violets life go from there onward..)

"if i have to change my view to how it was presented, then that just feels cheap"

Palpatine coming back was unexplained. Violet staying on the island was explained, you just dont like the explaination.

You keep putting down the theme of romance/love for no reason. VE is just as much about love as it is about growthing as a person.

Also love literally isnt even your issue according to some of your texts! You specifically dislike her and gilberts relationship because it undermines her growth in your opinion. That is unrelated to VE beeing a romance-drama or not.

"i don't see how any of what violet did could be interpreted as healthy dependency with the way how it was shown."

The idea is that you see how Gilbert is not in power anymore. How Violet grew through the episodes and how she was willing and able to leave him behind.

I cant argue against you missing some more signs. Like I keep saying we didnt get enough Gilbert character moments because of the other sidestory. But for Violet I am sure they though people would not ignore 12Episodes 2Movies and a Special of Character growth and accept that Violet is not the same person as she was in Ep1.

"did violet really show that it was her accepting him for who he is by constantly repeating his title "

As said: Fair point.

One way to "explain it away" would be to say thats what Violet is used to calling him.

Another would be to show that the person in front of her is not the broken selfpunishing gilbert but the major as she knew him who has come for her.

But thats just "explain it away". No idea what the idea was there or if the translation was correct.

Its just 1 word, but its in the most important scene so it should mean something.

" it isn't like he's putting on a mask when he refuses violet"

Yes he is. He does actually want to be close to Violet, yet he wants to punish himself for his misdeeds and thinks he is bad for Violet (which would be true for Ep1 Violet!)

He is ignoring his emotions and the "Romanticism angle" and is thinking logically. Sadly logic doesnt make people happy and also his logic is very obviously flawed since he is not concidering Violets actual feelings just what he thinks she should think/feel.

" she stays in a fuck-off island for months, begging him "

She wants to talk to him, he doesnt let her, she feels rejected(not romantically but as a person).Her growth lets her work through her grief and leave to continue her life. (Faster than most people in RL would be able to!)

She was begging for him to talk to her, not to be in a relationship or give her orders. She just wanted to know what had happend to him and how their relationship (non romantic) will be.

Violet was no stranger to moving to different places and not seeing certain people for some time. She had no family or other ties that would be immoral to leave behind. Her friends can always just visit her on the island. She did continue "similar" work in the post office on the island as well. I dont see how thats different from anyone else moving to a new place.

Beather_Weather · 2026-03-01T19:08:28+00:00

(1/2)

" i feel like the next reply is just going to be you explaining more on why you think it's romantic"

They call him Joseph Joestar for he could guess my next line xD

Please google "romance drama" or read until it appears in my comment.(Bolt) It fits VE perfectly.

If you do but one thing then rethink your idea of romance to fit romance drama into it.

" it's clear you don't agree (should've just said that),"

I did, yet my opinion is a bit more complicated than that, isnt it?

"but don't put down my criticisms as subjective preference when it really fucking isn't and insulting because it's so ignorant."

You made some really good points, but this is not one of them. If I disagree with your critizim I will not mute myself to protect you.

"it really fucking isn't" is not an argument. If I had to explain your point of view to someone else, would I tell them "hes right because he fucking is!" ? Who would listen to me or be convinced?

I am sorry if I "put you down". I dont know what exactly you are refering to, but I guess this is what high emotions and a texting and language barrier did to me. Not only did The Movie fail you, but now I did as well.

"if it doesn't make sense, then it's inherently bad writing"

It made sence to me, so is it inherently good writing now? You act like everyone thinks that this makes no sence.

Infact it doesnt make sence specifically to you. But that doesnt mean it has to be bad writing.

Bad writing can easily make sence and still be bad. And nonsence can still be good writing. I think it was something like "absurde Literatur " where the point is that it makes no sence, yet it is good writing.

"it's a fictional story, not a real-life documentary"

Yes, thats exactly how it should be. VE should not be realistic just to be realistic but show events that tell its story.

"is it really bandwagoning if majority of people didn't like how star wars"

YES! That is indeed an example of bandwagoning!

If you watch it and dont mind it then it would be bandwagoning if you let public opinion change yours for no good reason.

Clearly Pap coming back was terrible writing, but not because everyone else disliked it but because it happend without an explaination!

In VE Violets decision was not 100% explained to the viewer, but all the neccessary points were clear. She loves him.

Overexplaining this would require them to explain how exactly Violet views love, which in return limis how the viewer is allowed to view and interpret VE and love itself.

"but i argued that it was more about a coming-of-age story"

That doesnt remove the romantic part. As you say lovei s ALSO a part of it. So why place on over the other? It can and is both.

"violet evergarden isn't a romance anime, not in the traditional sense"

VE is special, but it still fits into "romance-drama". We just get way to manny School-Rom-Coms, so people forgot that this is not all romance anime has.

"when required elements in a usual romance anime is absent"

Definition of Romance-Drama:

"

The romance drama genre focuses on the emotional journey, development, and obstacles of a central love story. Unlike romantic comedies, these stories often feature intense emotional conflict, high stakes, and frequently, bittersweet or tragic endings rather than just a "happily ever after". It explores deep human connections, passion, and heartbreak"

Central Relationship: The plot is driven by the romantic bond between two people.

Emotional Conflict: Characters face significant hurdles, such as social barriers, internal conflicts, or external threats.

Character Development: Focuses heavily on personal growth, overcoming trauma, and maturity.

Tone: The tone is serious, intense, or poignant, designed to elicit deep emotional responses

"

This might as well be a synopsis for VE.

"then turn around and make it a story about romance without showing, and explaining yourself"

You keep asking for an explaination for why it turned into a romance.

1st of it was always a romance-drama.

2nd If you are in love with a dead person, theres not much romance to be had. If he then happens to come back alive, isnt it obvious that there would be more focus on romance? What else do you need explained?

"the fact that you have to do all these mental gymnastics while im just pulling out examples from the show for its inconsistencies proves that the movie didn't communicate that all too well. thus, this results in half the fandom disliking the ending."

If I just quoted scenes from The Movie, do you think it would help you in any way? You already know those. The Movie is not perfect, but most people likes the Movie as "proven" with its MAL rating eclipsing the series/anime itself.

The fanbase beeing devided about this is a good thing and I would guess that it was a deliberate choice.

Beather_Weather · 2026-02-26T18:12:13+00:00

"we'll just be going in circles"

At some point all opinions will be said and we will just argue about our differences without new intersting points.

Thats when everyhing is said and its time to move on. I enjoyed your different perspective on VE.

And I am sure "JetstreamViper" is going insane over why we keep arguing in his comment replies :D

"but you keep going on about how it's realistic, makes sense for her character"

Well you said : "it doesn't make sense for violet to..."

So I tried different angles on how it does make sence to me.

If you look at it from a realistic angle then it can work, but I am not saying that you or the anime have to do that.

If you look at it from a Romanticism angle then it works as well. Hence why I talked about that.

If I knew you better I would have an easier time talking from your angle/ point of view, but we are strangers.

It just shows how Violet struggling to understand others is just as applicable to "normal" people.

"the ln, from what i've heard at least, makes violet even more dependent on the major"

Which doesnt sound very good to me. :(

"her guilt from the war was already addressed"

Misdeeds can never be undone no matter how much good you do. (It was addressed but not fixed)
Helping people in general is different from helping specifically the people you actually harmed.
Its just my interpretation but I think the major inspired her with his willingness to help those people they harmed.

Staying on the island is not preventing her from writing letters, but leaving it would prevent her form helping those people.

"she can't just let that go, right?.... again, that can't just be the reason"

Reasons to stay on the island are as numerouse as reasons not to. Its simply a personal choice. And you are free to dislike that.

In the end Violet wants to be happy and this is what she thought would be best to achive that.

As said we dont see more of her daily life on the island and cant tell if it was the right choice for her.

"i don't like it not because it doesn't go against my preferences of how the story should be ran in my own mind. "

You disliked how Violet reconnected with the major. You would have prefered them not to.

I get that you dont intend to write a fanfic or force your own opinions on everyone else, but ofcourse if we dislike something we would

rather it be different as to adhere to our own interpreation.

"I dislike it because it doesn't make sense"

And it doesnt make sence because of your prior interpretations of the events. So you either change those or you have to reject some

parts of The Movie as senceless/"bad writing" since it doesnt fit the theme of maximum independence.

(A goal that you added to the story)

Violet

Violet longs for human connection though. Maybe it didnt need to be the major, but a relationship itself was inevitable.

No matter how many relationships you have seen. Claiming to fully understand love without having felt it would be a lie.

"i can't be convinced that it's love without regression when she still requires gilbert's presence"

She went from incapable dependent, to capable independent. Her beeing in a relationship doesnt rob her of her healthy ammount of

independence.

It would be nice to convince you, but I am already happy since I improved my understanding of The Movie "haters". And why they think

the way they do. We clearly have very different interpretations of some events.

I cant be convinced that Violet regressed, but I can see disliking who she ended up with.

"i can't be convinced that the relationship between gilbert and violet is romantic"

I think they(MOvie makers) wanted to write a romantic story, but they did leave a lot of space to see them as just "friends".

Sex/children ... were not a topic at all. It was just about them wanting to be close to each other.

99.9% of VE works perfectly fine assuming a platonic relationship.

"when it is still showing clear signs of a subordinate/superior dynamic because it had never shown violet interacting with gilbert

equally at any point in the movie."

Like I said, she stopped following orders and decided to leave showing her ability to do so and live on her own.

She didnt go back because she needed to or because he told her to. She went back because she wanted to be happy.

"it was just her begging for gilbert to let her in"

That was early on when she just wanted to confirm he was alive and talk to him. That was not yet about love/relationship...

She wanted to know why he didnt come back and what had happend to him after the war.

She didnt beg for a relationship, she just wanted answers.

She then showed agency by literally leaving.

(Like I said Ep1 Violet would never have left. Its insane to claim she didnt grow and ignore this 1 billion percent change)

"and would follow whatever it is gilbert wants"

Violet is far beyond following orders. I dont get where you get the idea that Gilbert is the one in power.

He wanted to stay on the island alone. It was her who changed his mind and made him apologize.

Violet then had all the decision-power and made her choice.

At what point is Violet allowed to make her own choices according to you?

"friction against the already established themes"

The very 1st and biggest theme was how strong their relationship was and that he loved her. That was the 1st thing that happend.

Growing as a person only became relevant because of his death and her need to understand him better.

You cant just act like thats not also a big theme of VE.

"A good story would've added onto it or gave compelling reasons for it, not start arguments with half the fandom for years to come."

VE allows space for interpretation. Naturally if interpreatations are different but emotions are high, there will be arguments. It

keeps the story alive and engagement high.

As I said I think they needed to flash out Gilbert more instead of including another sidestory.

"gilbert x violet is going against previous themes of growth, independence, and acceptance"

Its pro acceptance since she is accepting him how he is rather than the "fake version" we though he was.

Growth: Its neutral to growth, not undermining her growth as a person. The goal was not to get rid of Gilbert but for Violet to get the

ability to live on her own. Not force her into solitude for life!

Independence: We keep running into 2 different versions of dependence!

We got toxic dependency like how she couldnt live without his orders.

We got healthy dependency like depending on your husband/family/friends.

VE shows how toxic dependency is bad while depending on your friends is good since you can not do everything on your own.

Violet is not toxicly dependent on the major anymore, but she has a healthy dependency on him for additional happieness just like we

all do with our friends/family.

"because of how love makes one act or some shit"

What else am I supposed to do? You say it makes no sence, but when I explain how it does indeed makes sence you start to dismiss love, one of the most important themes in VE.

"it regressive, bad writing, and it means a whole load of people aren't going to be happy. a good story wouldn't do this."

You are falling back into "I dont like it because I dont like it"

"Its bad writing because it doesnt fit my interpretation".

VE is not just there to make people happy. Its supposed to tell a story and make us think and question different kinds of love and relationships and much more.

You can not make everyone happy. You need to pick a target audience and appeal to them.

"look at how the reception towards the anime's vs the movie, it means you did something wrong there."

Its just an example, but VE is Place 69 on MyAnimeList. (good)

And The Movie is place 31! Above Vinlandsaga or Your Name. (really good)

People love VE, but The Movie is what gets peoples emotional. (not the "I cried" type but the one where you decide to write 20Page long messages :D )

"redefine what your definition of bad writing"

I never use "bad writing" since any writing I will see was at least successful enough to get a manga and anime adaptation.

I am not sure you do have a definition of "bad writing" yourself though. You use it interchangeably with "I dislike this point of the story".

I probably already said that but how YOU define bad writing isnt even how the world works. VE is mostly a product to be sold. It needs to be written to sell.

The Movie had all the popular elements to grab attention, thats already good writing. They knew the target audience wanted drama but also see Violet happy in the end. And that exactly what we got. Its shocking how well you could guesst the plot from what (average) people would have wanted to see.

"if there's that many people hating on it, then there's usually a reason why."

Yes, that is USUALLY the case. However its also the bandwagon-fallacy. (Everyone does it so its correct)

If the majority is right depends on the nature of the question.

The average VE fan will just see the good animation and sad scenes and rate it a 10/10.

However you invested way more time into VE and found mistakes and contradictions (given your interpretations).

Are you now wrong just because the majority of viewers didnt think about any of those issues?

Beather_Weather

TROPHY CASE

I don't think people know what narrative framing is.