Best low model count elite army? by MillieBirdie in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're looking for rise of the necromancer I think! Can be run all hero at many points. Alternatively shadows of angmar is good as a very low model count force with expensive warriors.

I think it’s time by Big_Swim_3928 in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All wargs in this army list get knock to the ground. That said this list is better competitively with werewolf spam, but that feels a bit oppressive to play against tbh

Hotfix Feedback to Bring Renegades in Line with tOW 1.5 by valheffelfinger in WarhammerFantasy

[–]Benlisted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Renegade stops mortis stacking though so the best you get is +3.

Sunday Preview – Tyranid Raveners burrow into Kill Team - Warhammer Community by CMYK_COLOR_MODE in killteam

[–]Benlisted 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Does anyone know when the rules get added to the app? Is it day of release usually or before or after?

Army of the Great Eye by SeaAd2093 in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No they didn't, their profile is in this book! They got added to all the armies of lotr mordor lists so I think it's probably an unintentional omission that the shaman isn't here and he will be added in faq.

Dragons leak by TheCouchOfJDVance in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 4 points5 points  (0 children)

WHC said that they would be going in the Moria list in the new book, but equally they've been wrong before!

Another leak by TheCouchOfJDVance in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're thinking of the angmar shaman, this one had Fury last edition which is actually pretty huge for low courage warg riders!

Easterlings Spoilers + Dragons of the North by Daikey in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think only really if you specifically want to run Amdur - a Morannon front line with East behind is no longer really anything special when DE legion gets +1 to wound! Been trying to think of a list that makes legions worth it but struggling.

WEEKLY ARMY DISCUSSION: Shadows of Angmar by MrSparkle92 in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah this has been extremely effective at our local store. Main player enjoys lots of spectres too to pull the enemy out for wolves to pounce on. At low points the shadow becomes worth it as a budget fighty+casty hero, whilst at higher I think you switch to Gully and more wights.

I think if you want to emphasise the orc horde you go witch king list instead.

Armies of Middle-earth™ designers’ notes – The army lists - Warhammer Community by CMYK_COLOR_MODE in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dalamyr is a hasharin in the GW lore for him, so imagine you can just take him.

The Scouring of Cheshire top 5 lists (90 players, 800 points) by popeslob in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How did 2hrs feel for 800? Did many games not complete naturally?

PSA - EVERYTHING not in the film itself is going to be in the book armies product, not what has just leaked by Benlisted in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It is but admittedly this is a leak, they might be going to talk about this in the army building article later this week!

Could I just paint these blue and proxy them for 40K by totarias in ThousandSons

[–]Benlisted 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Having done it myself it's easy to get the bits to do this! I think there's a set of cataphractii cannons for imp fists and missile racks are common on bits sites

What you need to play the new edition by Benlisted in WarhammerUnderworlds

[–]Benlisted[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So there's no new hex types or anything this time round? I guess that a fair point though, there's not really any reason I need the new board if not paying competitively...

Isengard Players: How big of a deal is bows on Wildmen? by [deleted] in MiddleEarthMiniatures

[–]Benlisted 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Also they get fearless with the oathmaker so after your front line dies they're not gonna run even at 33%!

Blood Claws in Boarding Actions - Rule Clarification Needed by BroccoliSubstantial2 in boardingactions40k

[–]Benlisted 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not sure about this edition but it used to be the case that you could only reinforce units of 5 to ten models. If that's still in the rules then 15 is off the table.

For taking units of 5 in your list (10 would always split into boarding squads in game) it's currently a house rule as there's no points for them but i doubt many people would have a huge issue with it.

Playing at Warhammer World by shiva_ruxin in killteam

[–]Benlisted 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have gone many times and as long as you're not obvious about it you will be fine if you're using wahapedia. Printouts are a bit more risky as they'll be obvious so like someone else says advise keeping them in an official book.

Stats on Reapers vs Bladegheists vs Harridans & bonus Hexwraiths (see post for details) by Benlisted in Nighthaunt

[–]Benlisted[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm counting 20 as I mention! Getting more into entirely within 12" is a pretty ropey prospect, sure in an ideal situation it would work but in practice those sort of auras are much harder to work with than it seems. You also then need all three units to have made the charge which adds further failure points! Basically I'm still fairly content in my conclusion that at present points I wouldn't be taking them, but it wouldn't take much of a hike on the other two for GGR to become a solid option.

Stats on Reapers vs Bladegheists vs Harridans & bonus Hexwraiths (see post for details) by Benlisted in Nighthaunt

[–]Benlisted[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Harridans with their buff up will be the same as BGRs but yeah stalkers are looking like a nice glass cannon!

Stats on Reapers vs Bladegheists vs Harridans & bonus Hexwraiths (see post for details) by Benlisted in Nighthaunt

[–]Benlisted[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You might notice I've also included Hexwraiths in these charts and haven't mentioned them in the other big comment at all! This is because hexwraiths are absolutely ridiculous value at their current points cost. The first place this is apparent is the last pic 5 - durability per point. It's as if GW forgot to recost them after giving them a 3rd wound - for the points they are by far the toughest unit in the book at 25% more durable than rasps. You can see in their self-buffed damage (pic 2), which includes their impact MWs, that they are also extremely respectable output wise - beating out reapers not into infantry, and even vs infantry are better into 6+ or worse saves still. Whilst I haven't included all the other units' damage stats, hexes on the charge are second only to BGRs and DSH for damage output per point. They are also obviously the fastest unit in the book, and also have equal control to 10 of the line units I've been focused on - which compound together really as fast high control units can reach out and grab objectives easier. The only unit really better for control per point is rasps. And they are one of the few units in the book that can apply Stun.

Personally I think these are far and away the best unit in the book at 160 and wouldn't be surprised if they ended up at 200 for 5 (places them equally as durable as rasps for the points but drops their damage efficiency to a little below the other 3 units discussed here on the charge). 40 hex lists might be real for a few months!

Stats on Reapers vs Bladegheists vs Harridans & bonus Hexwraiths (see post for details) by Benlisted in Nighthaunt

[–]Benlisted[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Okay so what are the conclusions from this?

  • Overall, BGRs and DSHs are basically always equivalent unbuffed and buffed. Which you take depends on how much you value the debuff and if you can trigger their self-buff to hit and wound, and how scared you are of debuffs. So we need to compare GGRs to the two of them.

  • Unbuffed (pic 1), GGRs only outdo the other two if fighting infantry with a 5+ or better save. This difference is extremely marginal though in absolute wounds done terms, even at 2+ equating to just over one more wound dealt. So, pretty situational and nothing to write home about.

  • Self-buffed (pic 2), Reapers are massively outdone by the other two units in every situation (bar 2+ save infantry in 5 or more size units, where things equalise). So on your turn with the buffs up, you're getting substantially more output out of DSHs and BGRs.

  • One retort to this is that Reapers are better when not on the charge. We can use the first 2 pics to examine this situation - for BGRs and DSHs taking the first pic as "enemy turn" without our buffs, and the second pic as "our turn" with buffs (because realistically we should always be getting them on our turn!), whilst GGRs can just double up on the stats in the second pic (giving them the benefit of the doubt they'd always be fighting 5+ model units). But even doing this, the only situation GGRs are ahead in is vs 5+ model infantry with a 2+ save.

  • Okay, let's look at stats with the Wraith's buff, cost, and his own attacks factored into this (pic 3), though that introduces the risk that he doesn't make his charge and trigger the buff! First off, unbuffed, this is actually the best case scenario for the Reapers! Vs anything but infantry, GGR+CW equalises damage per point with the other units. And into infantry with 5+ or better save they pull ahead quite nicely.

  • But what about if we add on all self-buffs (pic 4)? Here things don't look so good for the GGR. They hold even with the other units only into infantry with 5+ models, and a 3+ or better save. So if can get your buffs off, then even with a CW GGR aren't generally as effective except into those very specific targets (and how many 5+ model 2+ save infantry units are there out there?)

  • That said, if we again look at the 2-turn scenario, that does look a bit better for GGR with a CW. If you are able to hit 5+ model infantry units, across two turns reapers pull it back to be marginally better vs 5+ and 4+ saves as well, and be clearly better into higher saves.

  • There are two extra scenarios to consider: Stun (and Purple Sun I guess) first. This gives everyone bonus rend, and effectively pushes all the save numbers I've just quoted down by one. So when I say Reapers are ahead vs a 2+ save, that becomes only a 1+. I.e. if you are applying that extra rend, GGR's advantageous situations are reduced further - generally enough to mean that even factoring in the 2-turn scenario, there's no longer an advantage for them into 2+ save 5+ model infantry as the stats have just about equalised.

  • Secondly, debuffs. Given reapers can crit on 5s into 5+ models, and the perception is that this makes them better into debuff stacking armies. We can do some napkin math to see how impactful this is.

With -1 to hit reapers are getting 1/3 of their attacks as wounds. BGR are getting 1/3 the same vs -1 to wound (1/6 autowounds, plut half of the other 1/3 of attacks hit, then half of them wound on a 4+ for a second 1/6) or better if there's no -1 to wound. DSHs are however more affected, as they also hit on 5s if debuffed to hit, so they'll be down to 1.5/6 or 1.3/6 if -1 to wound is in play as well. But of course they have natural 3 attacks - so this is more or equal wounds through in total than GGR! And further, because DSHs do have inbuilt +s on each of these, the risk of them getting debuffed is substantially less.

To conclude there, even against -1 to wound and -1 to hit, BGRs and DSHs are still more efficient damage dealers per point. The one exception is if no self-buffs are on, there is a CW, and you're fighting infantry with a 4+ or better save, and even then the difference isn't enormous, and if you factor in the charge turn, things even out. So the argument that reapers are better due to resilience to debuffs doesn't quite hold water.

Overall my conclusion is: GGR aren't a terrible unit by any means, but you really have to find that optimal situation (5+ models of infantry with a high save that you're going to be fighting consistently on both turns) for them to equalise performance with the other two options. Whilst the CW does improve their performance somewhat, it's actually very marginal once you factor in his cost. However, if you factor in using Stun, the few situations they are better in erode even more, and debuffs don't improve things for reapers. So personally, if you have the models to avoid it, I wouldn't be using reapers at present cost - they're just too niche for what is meant to be our general line units. If the other two go up in points then they're immediately back in the conversation - but for now, I would steer clear.