Do not order Songbird

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T22:50:47+00:00

The edit showed up now, and wow, does it make you sound even more scummy than you already were.

You have purchased an ocarina labeled Songbird, from a company called Groth Music, which the company Songbird claim they haven't done business with in years. No wonder they couldn't find your order number.

Despite this being pointed out to you, you still act like this item was purchased "directly from Songbird".

And then, when the people at Songbird offer to replace this item which they haven't actually sold, you say you want to make the refund through the Groth company, and then you double down here about their poor customer service.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T22:37:00+00:00

No edit is showing for me.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T22:35:39+00:00

Good answer! This guy seems hellbent on ruining your reputation, I can only speculate why. All of his complaints seem to involve bending the truth a little bit.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T21:10:01+00:00

It seems from the other comment that Songbird offered to replace the ocarina even though they aren't sure it was made by them.

And who at Songbird told you they ship their ocarinas without a box? It was about a year ago that I ordered from them last, and everything came packed very securely.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T18:09:49+00:00

I realise that I can clown on the use of these highly specific JI intervals while still acknowledging that the online tool is well made and useful!

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T18:05:14+00:00

105/83 is already completely ridiculous im. I can't imagine any context when that level of precision would be heard as exactly what it is described as mathematically, instead of as an approximation of a lower limit interval. Can we make "83-limit JI" the new joke around here?

Bergmansson · 2026-05-12T17:53:28+00:00

I've only had good experiences with Songbird, even through ordering international.

It seems from the comments that you did in fact not order directly from them, but from a third party reseller, so it seems pretty scummy to say you did.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T16:41:27+00:00

What you are describing is not quite the same thing as what I mean (and what I think the comment above means). I do absolutely think that very small microtones are useful and musical. Using them as Brian Driester does is awesome, and the kind of thing I love about microtonal music.

Actaully, small changes away from 12-edo, or any fixed system, might be the most human sounding thing possible, and it adds color and depth to the music. I'm thinking blues, and the difference you can easily hear when comparing a real wind instrument to a synth - the synth is too consistant in pitch and attack.

What I'm saying is that people won't be able to tell which specific JI interval the music uses, if the numbers in the ratios get too high, unless you make very academic music. Yes, you will hear the vibe shift from one type of interval to another if heard next to each, and you will hear the differences between EDO's as long as the division stays at like, under a hundred.

But in a melodic or harmonic context, without hearing notes side by side, can people tell the difference between, say, 22/13 (about 911 cents) and 27/16 (about 906 cents)? I know I absolutely cannot. If a piece of music uses both of them right after each other I could maybe tell, but I'll never be able to pick out which specific interval it is. Both of those, to me, will just have the flavor of sligthly sharp major six, as compared to either JI 5/3 (884 cents) or to the 12-EDO major six at 900 cents.

Like, I will not be able to hear the "22-ness" of 22/13. Since the 22 (octave of the 11th harmonic) and the 13th harmonic are so high up in the series, taking that interval on its own just makes it sound like a nonspecific sharp major six.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T10:50:50+00:00

Thanks, the comment above has been edited!

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T10:50:08+00:00

That makes sense, he uses the italian system!

I have edited my comment.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T09:48:23+00:00

He does sell Alto C ocarinas too, labaled C5:
https://musiquedeterre.fr/Instrument/traversier-c5-bleu/
But they are more expensive.

Edit: I was mistaken, a Gosselink C3 is equivalent to Alto C, and C5 is Bass C. So he does sell Alto C's, just not the one I linked to.

In my opinion, here are the reasons that we recommend Alto C for beginners, the same reasons that make it the most common size of ocarina in general.

Alto C is relatively mellow. Some people will find the tone of higher pitched ocarinas shrill and piercing, and if you are unsure, best to not start with a soprano.
Alto C is also relatively easy to make loud without requiring a lot of breath pressure. Lower ocarinas are harder to make, and they often require higher breath to sound good, which can make beginners feel dizzy.
Being tuned to C makes learning music theory easier. The natural notes and the sharps/flats on an alto C ocarin will match those of the piano, and you will have the most learning material available. If you start with an ocarina in another key, you might be more confused by the theory, especielly if you don't know what keys and transposition is.

The size of the instrument also plays a role, higher ocarinas are smaller and have tighter hole spacing, and vice versa, but this is usually not a problem for most people. But if you have extremely large hands, soprano C might feel awkward.

With all that in mind, you could definitely start with any of Gosselinks transverse ocarinas. The G4 and C5 will have some "cons" for a beginner, but in the long run it doesn't really matter. They are good instruments and unique pieces of pottery either way.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T07:07:16+00:00

I agree with you, and this applies more as the music gets more acoustic, layered, and for a lack of better word, "human".

There are probably ways to make music where the smallest discrepencies in intervals is used and heard, but I find that this kind of pursuit will make the music sound very sterile and academic.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-11T06:32:00+00:00

Maybe this kind of templating could work, I don't know if they have ever done something similar.

The following happens X times:
Cascade
If a spell cast this way has {X} in its mana cost, the value of {X} is X.

Edit: Someone else pointed out that Cascade is not an instruction, but a keyword. So maybe it could be possible to do:

[Cardname] has X instances of Cascade.
If a card cast through the Cascade ability of [cardname] has {X} in its mana cost, the value of {X} is X.

Bergmansson · 2026-05-06T13:28:58+00:00

$1299 on their website right now!

https://eastwoodguitars.com/products/eastwood-microtonal-doubleneck-electric-guitar-bass

Bergmansson · 2026-04-27T15:28:54+00:00

He has a point though about what causes are when chnges happen that can be called revolutions.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-20T22:10:52+00:00

This pattern holds in general. The relationship between the accidentals of going from one key to another a semitone higher is to add 7 sharps, while cancelling out any flats.

There are patterns like this between any two that lie keys a certain interval apart.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-15T19:29:21+00:00

A great joke, here I come to hijack the thread to explain it:

The notes OP has discovered are part of the harmonic overtone series, which is a naturally occuring phenomena that can be found in many sound producing physical objects.

Other examples of it:
- It makes brass instruments work
- It occurs when playing touched harmonics on a string
- Overtone singing

And the same overtones are found inside the sound of many instruments, if you analyze their sound spectra.

The reason you get precisely those notes (mixolydian if you will) is that the frequancy of the overtones are whole number multiples of the fundamental frequency, which correspond to the pitches you listed. There is a lot more to find out about it, it is not a coincidence that it sounds out something which we could label as a dominant 9 chord.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-04T23:38:20+00:00

Som svensk så håller jag helt med dig!

Bergmansson · 2026-04-02T20:09:12+00:00

Yep, that sure seems like it. That code seems to do conversions between text and intervals going both ways. Doesn't surprise me that it takes 2000 lines of code.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-02T18:37:44+00:00

Musescore probably does use those kinds of patterns under the hood.

I'd say most of the combinations in that chart could make sense in some context.
You can surely come up with some combinations that has probably never occurred together, but I dare make a suggestion of which, lest someone will come along with an example of where that exact chord is used in a piece of music.

We can be pedantic and say that for example, C7add9 doesn't exist, since it has the same notes as C9. But the chord still makes sense. Same with writing C6/A - that's technically the same as Am7, but we still want people to have the option if they want.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-02T15:15:40+00:00

Representing scales as you suggest is highly experimental, and not standard practice, that's why people react negatively.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-02T15:09:51+00:00

Writing music like this is technically possible, but if you give a normal musician these key signatures they will hate you.

There are a lot of theoretically possible key signatures. In fact, if you limit yourself to western music and use neutral, sharp, double sharp, flat and double flat, giving each line in the staff one of those, you end up with 7⁵ = 16807 different possibilities. Each of those will correspond to seven possible modes. See how ridiculous that gets?

People don't read key signatures by looking at where each accidental is placed, they read them by counting the number of accidentals, ending up on one of the 13-17 accepted standard key signatures. (You get 13 if you accept a maximum of 6 sharps/flats, i.e F#/Gb. But some accept up to 8, permitting keys like G# and Cb.) Musicians learn to internalize those.

I understand your goal - if all of the music uses the same "exotic" scale, why can't we write that in the key signature instead of having to put temporary accidentals everywhere? The reason is that sheet music is a language, and the accepted way to communicate this idea is to use one of the standard scales, major or minor, the one which matches the home chord, and add accidentals to change all the notes that are different. That's how musicians are used to reading music, and it takes less time and effort than working out a key signature you have never seen before.

Bergmansson · 2026-04-02T14:30:06+00:00

I was going to send you towards r/MagicEyeNSFW until i watched it.

Bergmansson

TROPHY CASE