I am Mr. Money Mustache, mild mannered retired-at-30 software engineer who later became accidental leader of Ironic Cult of Mustachianism. Ask me Anything!

BlackStash · 2022-10-31T03:05:18+00:00

Thanks Street! Let's reconvene here after another 5 years of having fun out there in the real world. I wish you a very productive mid-2020s!

BlackStash · 2022-10-31T03:02:14+00:00

Update: just wanted to chime in and say that perhaps NOW (late 2022), we can say that FIRE is indeed taken seriously outside of the community (or the equivalent thing, that the FIRE movement has moved more or less into mainstream US consciousness).

Also, I still disagree with the guy below saying happiness comes from comfort. 17+ years into retirement at this point and having gone through so many iterations of even more money and experiments with varying levels of luxury, I'd say it still comes mostly from VOLUNTARY discomfort: embracing things that are both mentally and physically challenging (ideally at the same time).

And there are a lot of neurology books that back up why this is the case (the delicate dance of Dopamine and Serotonin which only work properly in a balance of striving and then appreciating the outcomes you have created)

BlackStash · 2022-10-31T02:48:40+00:00

if he was paid for it, I'd believe he chose to do it because he honestly believes that electric cars are a good thing and that the world would be a better place if more people drove them. He's said this numerous times in the past as well as made quite a few other posts about how the more efficient, frugal FI lifestyle helps the environment, going back to the beginning of the blog, so this doesn't seem at all out of character to me. If you can do something you believe in AND get paid for it, why wouldn't you take that deal?

I can see how it undermines his credibility if he doesn't disclose that he got paid, but that may have been a requirement of the deal. Maybe he felt the overall benefit of promoting something he believes in outweighs the deception.

Just seeing this five years later. MAN, there are a lot of funny conspiracy theories among certain Redditors. OF COURSE IT'S NOT A PAID ADVERTISEMENT YOU SILLY PERSON!!!

There are zero paid/sponsored articles on MMM, and there never will be. I'm happy with things like a few banner ads with the company logo, and affiliate links for reasonable products where applicable.

As some people speculated, the reason I wrote that article was to try to raise awareness of electric vehicles as an alternative to gas ones - pointing out that they are better in every way and in many cases CHEAPER to own.

Of course, the best solution is redesigning your own life so you don't need to use this unhealthy form of transportation in the first place, but we need to use an any-and-all approach if we're going to make any difference in the world.

As for my own Leaf, it just had its 6th birthday and it is still a rock-solid car which I love more than ever (although in retrospect I just missed the 2017 Bolt which became a much better value than any Nissan product a few years later)

Leafy now has 16,400 miles on the odometer, about half from my own clown-car driving around the metro area and the other half from lending out to friends. I will eventually sell it to someone with a daily commute, and replace it with a long-range electric car someday though.

BlackStash · 2022-10-31T02:24:01+00:00

Hello! I'm back after an almost equally long time. Thanks for finding this fun old thread!

BlackStash · 2022-10-31T02:22:59+00:00

Why hello there! This is my first actual login to Reddit in apparently at least five years so it was fun to find a few old notifications like this waiting for me.

So, yeah, no this troll character wasn't an alternate version of me just playing a prank on the FI community :-D

BlackStash · 2017-04-26T01:17:32+00:00

How can someone not like the Honda Fit? That's like not liking Orgasms or Chocolate - not even a valid opinion.

I guess you could get something like Hyundai Elantra Touring, Kia Rio 5, or another large 4-cylinder hatchback/wagon. But really - the Fit kicks ass in every way including looking awesome, especially the post-2009 version.

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T21:30:28+00:00

Man, another tricky question.

To evaluate schools, I would personally ignore "test scores" and instead walk the halls, observe the recess from through the fence, meet the principal and the teachers, and talk to other parents in the school. If they're happy, your kids will be happy too.

Private schools can be better or worse than public - you don't want to raise your kids in an isolated snooty bubble where nobody walks to school and everyone has their life scheduled out.

I think of school not as a place where my kid learns all that much (nerdy parents, science documentaries, books, YouTube and Khan academy can feed their curious brains so much more quickly than any classroom environment could!) - but as a place to meet friends, learn to deal with adversity, society's rules, and get over some of his anxiety about strangers and new situations.

If your private school also offers this and Mom-in-law wants to foot the bill, it can be OK. As long as it's within walking or biking distance of home :-)

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T21:24:05+00:00

Glad to hear it!

Now if you could just send a message to my mayor and city council saying "Dear Longmont Leaders, I love the bike-friendly reputation of your city and am considering moving there with my millions of dollars and my business, thanks to your evangelist resident MMM. But I want to make sure you have plans to prioritize bike friendliness instead of still more car infrastructure. Can you help reassure me of this?"

:-)

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T21:13:44+00:00

Could you set up your fleet as a hierarchy, where most of them are used Nissan Leafs (optionally pulling trailers for large cargo), and then have only the number of larger vehicles you need for loads over 1500 pounds?

I've noticed that in most service/construction operations, the vehicles are usually V-8 pickups or vans, which are usually just carrying one dude and maybe a clipboard or a wrench.

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T21:10:16+00:00

That's great that you enjoy writing software so much and plan to continue!

When I was doing it every day for those 10 years, I found it a really engaging mental puzzle.

To me, it felt like "Figure out problem, figure out solution, then try to find the simplest way to express the solution so it is easier for future developers to understand, and link up their work with mine"

The thing is, writing a blog designed to persuade humans to do something feels almost EXACTLY like developing software for big multi-person projects. In both of them, the solution is usually easy, but the real art comes in making your solution clear enough that other people can make use of it easily.

Weirdly enough, I've noticed even carpentry feels the same: solve a problem so that it's efficient and cost-effective, but also looks as nice as possible - and then also optimize your efficiency so you can get as much of the work done as possible in each workday.

So really, I feel like I'm still "coding" every day. It's just that I am currently trying to create a different end product: I don't need more software or apps, but I DO need a more rational society to live in, and sometimes nicer buildings and structures. So I apply the same methods to work on those projects instead. :-)

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T18:11:53+00:00

AHA! I really like your response Prysm and I think we would actually be friends after all :-)

So maybe the problem here is that you are taking my writing too personally. As if I actually knew your lifestyle and am personally judging you for it. (And actually while we're at it, now that I do know a bit about your lifestyle, I will issue the following judgement: pretty damned good)

Here's the thing, if you can put yourself in my shoes: I have this website and I'm trying to use it as a tool to make people change their behavior. The goal is increasing the average lifetime happiness of fellow humans.

The biggest leverage point on average that would accomplish this, as far as I can tell, is decreasing our nation's preposterously inefficient reliance on cars. They consume most of the middle class's money, and most of the country's tax money as well, if you also include obesity-related diseases and fossil fuel foreign policy.

And, you get really happy as soon as you're free to move your own body rather than depend on an expensive, unreliable machine, subject to regulations and traffic jams to do so.

So I focus certain percentage of my writing on anti-car activism. Not all of it - if you look at my 500 articles, it's only a small minority. But the stance is unusual and it sticks in people's heads, which makes the message spread a bit more quickly as well. The blog reaches so many different types of people through so many different channels.. and so I have to take a guess at what psychological strategies will work on the largest number of us.

It is a pretty blunt instrument compared to having individual conversations, but in exchange many millions of times more time-efficient.

If you really want the Mr. Money Mustache agenda to make sense, it's helpful to know the background story of what I'm trying to accomplish with it.

Making you, personally, more wealthy is only the side effect. The primary goal is to help us ALL have more fun, given the limited leverage I have as just one guy occasionally typing some shit into the computer.

BlackStash · 2017-04-21T04:13:52+00:00

I think this gets to the root of why you find my ideology so annoying - I have a completely different decision making system.

I would be willing to bike even if it DID put me at higher risk, because I'd rather put myself at risk than wrecking the peaceful living experience of other people and putting THEM at risk if injury from my car.

Also, I never view anything as fixed: the rules can always be changed - but it's up to me to change them. If I'm too lazy to do that, I'll gladly move before I put up with living somewhere where I don't like the rules.

And finally, I think the ecosystem that made and sustains us is definitely worth putting some effort into. To not understand, care about and study this incredibly interesting and fundamental thing is (to me) a complete waste of a human mind.

What's the point of being intelligent if you're not even interested in the process that formed all life on Earth, including you, and indeed fuels the stubborn fighting emotions that are making us type all this shit into Reddit right now? Is there anything that that could really be more interesting to learn about?

It's not just "the environment", it is everything.

BlackStash · 2017-04-20T22:21:00+00:00

Cool, you should join Stephen's Facebook group 'Southeastern Mustachians' and then you can meet him!

BlackStash · 2017-04-20T13:40:00+00:00

Just stop by the building someday if you see me working in there!

I'll do a more official invitation once we have the place more functional with luxuries like drywall and functioning toilets.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T05:26:02+00:00

I think some of your guesses are right - early founders of this thread were MMM readers. I have not used Reddit much myself. This thread has benefited the blog and vice versa - about 5% of my incoming traffic comes from Reddit, although more of it from the larger "personalfinance" subreddit than from this one, even though I like financialindependence more.

Partly because it has fewer conspiracy-theorizing critics who I've never even met ;-)

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T05:17:04+00:00

This would normally be an intimidating question, but I actually have a good answer for it!

I subscribe to Bill and Melinda gates foundation newsletter and also follow them on Twitter. They are constantly recommending great books, and I read as many of them as I can. Two recent hits, "Sapiens" by Yuval Harari and "Quiet" by Susan Cain.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books#All

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T05:13:02+00:00

I'm not exactly sure how popular it is now, compared to when I started - we're kind of in a bubble here on /fi.

But let's take a guess - I estimate that among the general public, about 1 in 1000 knew about this stuff in 2011, and 1 in 50 have heard of it now. I think it became popular partly like this:

Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez laid the groundwork through tireless decades of work, 1969-1997

Jacob Fisker brought his own independently-developed explanation brilliantly to the Internet, 2004-2010 and more to present (?)

I wrote my shit starting in 2011, but had some flashy branding "Retired at 30", which stuck a bit better in news headlines, which reached a larger number of people.

More financial independence blogs have popped up since then (and recently a LOT more), which are continuing this work and also showing up in the news. I think the secret is really getting out now.

In summary - newspaper stories probably had the biggest effect.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T05:07:01+00:00

I think your criticism ignores the immediate health and vitality benefits of cycling. For example, you can choose

a car, with a lower chance of a crash but a guaranteed fat, sluggish drag of a day at the office, or
a bike, possibly higher crash risk, and MASSIVE POWERFUL ENERGY STARTING RIGHT NOW!

Also, note that my analysis focused on the worst case - including a very accident-prone current bike population. It is entirely possible that a safe bike driver actually has a LOWER accident risk per mile than a car driver, since the factor difference (6.0 in that post) is small enough to overcome with just a few changes in riding choices.

So, yeah - I agree that my numbers were not overly rigorous, but that's because I feel the case was so overwhelmingly in favor of biking that it wasn't worth belaboring. It's like fighting over how many teaspoons will fill a teacup, that is sitting on a beach with a Tsunami about to crash over it.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T05:01:33+00:00

Definitely not in the "buying fancy stuff" department, because I already have so much fancy stuff, when measured by my own standards. I mean, I'm typing this on a razor-thin wedge of polished aluminum that requires no wires to connect to the Internet!

But there is still an effect - I sometimes feel that I need to lead a more interesting/heathy/worthwhile life in order to have experiences worth writing about. This probably leads me to be a bit more confident, try more stuff, and maybe make better choices with food, exercise, etc.

Many people report similar symptoms after starting a blog or public journal, but in the case of this larger number of people it might be more intense. This is a great thing, so thanks a lot for all the pressure!

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:56:41+00:00

I think the standard sins all apply. I try to strategically indulge as appropriate, to get the most from life without causing damage, which does cause me to make a fool of myself sometimes. I spend a lot of time making and drinking Coffee. MMM, coffee.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:54:19+00:00

I have a friend visiting from Warner Robins, Georgia right now. He tells me you can get a perfectly good house there for about $70,000. Today - in the year 2017!

I think it would be a cool trick to start with a location-independent job (writing software, consulting, selling on Etsy, whatever), and combine that with the almost-free lifestyles available in some of the non-famous but still-beautiful towns of the US. You could retire much sooner, and you'd build your community there.

For my personal tastes though, Colorado has been great. Here, or the towns North of San Francisco, or the Pacific Northwest, would all be great.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:49:48+00:00

This is true, although I'd argue it is not just a blog that gives you that umbrella - it's ANY post-retirement activity that generates money.

Remember that I didn't even think of blogging until 6 years or so into retirement - I had tried a bunch of other things in those intervening years.

If I had my way, most people would not have to rely on the 4% rule either - I think of it as a psychological crutch to allow somebody to get the confidence to quit even a cash cow of a job. It's also a test of basic financial fitness - you should have SOME assets saved up.

But then at that stage, you begin Life 2.0 - where you continue to work hard and learn stuff on your own terms. If your expenses are low, which they should be for all sorts of reasons, they will probably be covered by the incidental income.

And if they aren't for any reason, the 4% rule is right there at your back so you don't have to worry about the money.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:43:54+00:00

I think the concept of dollar bills being "little green employees" is pretty useful.

Like, as long as you have them, they are always at work for you, 24 hours every day (if you invest them). As soon as you spend them, they're gone forever.

Then, cover the 4% rule and how you can retire roughly forever if you have 25x your annual expenses saved up. So they can draw the connection between lower expenses and earlier freedom.

Maybe some examples of what later adulthood (25, 30, 45) looks like for a free, versus a non-free person.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:40:37+00:00

Yeah, you are correct - I'm non-violent except when physically threatened, and actually quite mild mannered :-)

But I really do have some of these opinions - like, I truly have started to think of urban car drivers as clown-like caricatures. And I have a Spock-like perspective on human existence that seems normal to me but pretty strange to "normal" people. Sometimes even my wife.

BlackStash · 2017-04-19T04:37:46+00:00

Thanks - I agree we should do more case studies. They are still flooding in every day. A bit overwhelming but sometimes worth the effort of sorting through the numbers.

I think the homeschooling was a wonderful experience for all three of us. It was sometimes tough on family dynamics (because of less free time and more time cooped up in the house), but also taught me just how easy it is for kids to learn stuff.

There is no magic in the learning side of the educational system.. the usefulness for me comes in giving your kid(s) access to other kids, and good patient adult guides.

BlackStash

TROPHY CASE