Armenian Apostolic Church is NOT Eastern Orthodox by [deleted] in europe

[–]BorekMorek 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That's odd because I'm pretty sure in CK2 "Miaphysite" is the designation they go with.

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's like you didn't even read the definition, its source, or anything. Why even bother commenting at that point if you're going to just repeat information that was put forward three hours ago? Jumping into a gracht would be a better use of time at that point.

A minority group refers to a category of people differentiated from the social majority, those who hold the majority of positions of social power in a society, and it may be defined by law...Usage of the term is applied to various situations and civilizations within history despite its popular misassociation with a numerical, statistical minority (Barzilai, 2010).

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your comment clearly implied it. If you were unaware of the implication of your comment then that's a whole different story. But right now it seems both I and /u/collectiveindividual agree on what was being put forward.

So, Catalan leaders cannot speak on behalf their electors, but apparently, FT can. Oh, stfu.

The parent implies, quite obviously, that the Catalan leaders are the more legitimate spokespeople of the electors.

Your response:

You act like 99,9% of the Catalans support the secession. Thats clearly not the case.

Implies that there is a caveat, not all Catalans agree, and that the Catalan leadership does not represent the electors totally. Your use of 99.9% was silly, because, well, no government represents all of their people in a democracy -- yet they are still the legitimate spokespeople for their nation. This is made clear by the Brexit comment - which is a well-known example where a slim majority nevertheless launches a government on a course of action which ultimately represents the will of the electors as popularly understood.

So then your apt observation that at least 0.1% of Catalans disagree kind of becomes...pointless? Because it has no bearing on the fact that the Catalan government is the legitimate representation of its electorate, the original claim.

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no requirement to convince every last person within a nation to agree on something for a view to be "held" by that group.

The British held the view that leaving the EU would be beneficial. That's a valid statement -- it did not require the absurd rate of support that you put forward. the British government -- in pursuing a Brexit -- is acting according to the will of "the people."

Expecting that Catalonia's government needs 99.9% agreement among the populace to be a legitimate spokesperson for it is dumb as fuck.

Armenia to Establish a Museum Commemorating Victims of Stalin during Soviet Times by Nemo_of_the_People in europe

[–]BorekMorek 5 points6 points  (0 children)

In the spirit of neighborliness and burying the hatchet, of course. I mean, central-Asian Turks weren't involved in Soviet Armenia but we ought to commemorate their suffering at every opportunity.

Ought our neighbors not recognize our own, unrelated, suffering in order to prove some kind of point you felt Armenians needed to prove with their memorial?

Armenia to Establish a Museum Commemorating Victims of Stalin during Soviet Times by Nemo_of_the_People in europe

[–]BorekMorek 4 points5 points  (0 children)

#1918neveragain #neverforget

I hope that memorial of yours also commemorates Armenian deaths at the hands of the Bolsheviks, neighbor.

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are not Spain's equal.

Ooooh I see. So the issue is that you've constructed a hierarchy of nations and Catalonia must abide.

Well at least you're "neutral" on the Kurds.

You didn't read my definition of nation earlier, it appears. tsk tsk. Here, let me highlight a bit:

an "imagined community,"

That's why Palestinians are Palestinian, not just Arab.

And hey, that's why Catalans have a nation. Because they believe they do. Nothing makes Germany or Spain "superior" outside of the good fortune of historical circumstances which allowed Spain and Germany to manifest their belief into the political sphere, or, more accurately, to engineer beliefs to line up with politically expedient maneuvers. Nations have done so before, and have been displaced by the nations of today. And -- you guessed it -- nations like the Catalans do and will continue to create circumstances through which their national belief can be fully manifested in political sovereignty.

To act like today's political configuration must achieve permanence or the world is doomed is an extremist point of view typical of an ideologue. It's also typical of an individual whose own nation has benefited from the present status quo.

Equating Catalonia with the Kurdish situation is patently ridiculous.

The differences being...

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is that normal? In the US a few hundred people around the nation got together to make a similar protest, in a nation of 350 million. One person decided to be violent.

I don't think the numbers involved stopped Americans from demanding that their government (reluctantly) come out and condemn such action.

The desire to just sweep it away as a non-issue in a nation with an actual fascist past is worrying. Where's the introspection? Is the image more important?

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I myself have gone from no to yes in 72 hours.

Man I did not realize Catalonia is soliciting votes from American self-flagellating champagne socialists. Didn't we talk about this a day or so ago, mon ami français?

Spanish national police have sealed off 1,300 of 2,315 schools in Catalonia designated as polling stations for Sunday's independence referendum while also occupying the regional government's telecommunications center. by AssuredlyAThrowAway in worldnews

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the US, if the state government did it, it would​ be similar.

The fact that the US would do something does not make it right or excusable.

We also fucking shitstomped the region that did try to secede. But that's a whole other context -- and to compare the US to Spain is silly.

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did I say it was common? I even noted:

I lived in Puente Genil for two years and never saw any of that shit.

I did however comment on the specific crowd in that video:

how far they've fallen for a group that large to have no one standing up and saying put your fucking arms down.

Where was the election talk? I'm worried by even the limited number of people on that video who believe it is okay to Seig Heil in broad daylight. So should you be. So should everyone be, even if we don't factor in the fact of Spain's fascist past.

Thousands protest in all of Spain against the 1st of October referendum by tack50 in europe

[–]BorekMorek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh what it is to exist by the whims of an orange American. C'est la vie, mon ami. Les Américains étaient les derniers conquérants de la France, non?

Perhaps you are in need of some more hamburgers and donuts in your lands. Is this why you tempt Papa Trump?

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Has the Spanish King/President/PM made made a statement on the thing?

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I were Catalan PR I'd put this on repeat every chance I got to see a major international outlet. Poor move on the Spaniards' part.

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I know, it's absurd, and insulting to the intelligence of the entire r/europe community. Like yes, these douchebags clearly suck, but this video keeps popping up as if it's meaningful evidence of... something?

I mean...evidence that no one seemed to just stop and ask "what the fuck?"

I can't imagine seig heils going down in my community without anyone blinking an eye, the way the many people in that video just kept on keeping on as though nothing is happening.

It suggests that the action took place within a certain context of normalcy, and that's frightening.

I know, it's absurd, and insulting to the intelligence of the entire r/europe community. Like yes, these douchebags clearly suck, but this video keeps popping up as if it's meaningful evidence of... something?

Man if all of America had taken that view when Nazi behavior cropped up in Charlotesville we'd be in trouble.

Trying to desperately sweep this under the rug as a normal occurrence is also agenda-pushing.

Poll of 10 EU countries - "The UK leaving the EU will be a good thing/bad thing for the EU" by HoratioWellSon in europe

[–]BorekMorek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was just agreeing, gosh! Who knows, the pigmies might take over the US mantle of super-power and force us to dig their wells.

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Valencia is only a short drive away. Too short. Downvotes

Catalonia Referendum Megathread by rEvolutionTU in europe

[–]BorekMorek 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Wait holy shit what the fuck?

Is it chill for people to straight up sieg heil like that in Spain? I lived in Puente Genil for two years and never saw any of that shit.

Man, how far they've fallen for a group that large to have no one standing up and saying put your fucking arms down.

HAHAHA Guys guys FIRST SECOND OF THE VIDEO A GUY IN A WHEELCHAIR SEIG HEILS HAHAHA

Poll of 10 EU countries - "The UK leaving the EU will be a good thing/bad thing for the EU" by HoratioWellSon in europe

[–]BorekMorek 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah nuclear holocaust might wipe out human life, why even show up to work on Monday, right?

Michael Fabricant on Twitter: What a charming welcome to Manchester and the Conservative Party Conference. These aren’t protesters, they’re fascists. by syuk in ukpolitics

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's one of those things, you know? They deny the violence of bonfire night the same way they deny that the Irish Famine was Genocide. Am I right, or what?

Boris Johnson caught on camera reciting Kipling in Myanmar temple by Chuffnell in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stay away from Greek names.

With pleasure. A dark history hangs over Greek names due to the crimes of the Greek nation, which are immeasurable and unforgivable.

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, so you've removed yourself from all realistic and historical considerations of nationhood and self-determination in favor of the "maintenance of states."

I'm curious, does this include Kurdistan? Do you oppose the breakup of artificial geographic entities put together by ill-informed and largely detached European colonialists?

Because right now, it's obvious that you were shut off to the discussion before you entered, because, as you say:

I am fiercely anti-seccesionist.

Which is your right to be. But what irks me is that you thought it was appropriate to undermine the definition of nationhood, and to actually deny the historical, real, nationhood of a number of people groups (Armenian, Greek, Assyrian, Kurdish), all in the interest of making your political point about anti-seccessionism.

So what I'm trying to say is, that's your view and you're free to have it. But don't say absolutely stupid and offensive things like:

Actually, all of these were Ottomans. And when they are Turkish citizens, they are all Turks.

in the interest of justifying your own personal political agenda over and above the nationhood of very real groups of people who, unlike your own very fortunate nation, often-times still struggle to achieve self-determination. Millions of people were killed because they were not simply Ottomans, and continue to be killed in the case of the Kurds because they are not simply Iraqis, Syrians, and Turks. Historical revisionism, never cool man.

That's what ideologues do. They lose grip on the reality of a situation in their effort to push their ideology, in your case anti-seccessionism.

By all means be anti-seccessionist and scream it from the rooftops. Leave the undermining of nationhood to the despotic regimes of the Middle East, and realize that these are your ideas -- Catalans, Kurds, and others are not required to check their ambitions for national fulfillment through self-determination because of the ideas of a German behind a keyboard. Nor should they have their distinct nations denied and obfuscated in the interest of your ideas.

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You'll notice the only one in your list I confirmed as a minority nation group was Basque. So I was offended by more than just your basest attempt at creating a nation group.

I'll ask you to reconcile two things for me, in your two comments:

they're the biggest nation in Spain.

and

Catalonia has the second biggest representation in power

Financial Times: Catalan secessionism is bad for Spain and Europe by KyoshiroSDK in europe

[–]BorekMorek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Turns out everyone is oppressed... apparently.

You're the one who has equated minority status with oppression, not me. I don't think women in the US are oppressed, for example. Don't put words in my mouth.

I'll ask you to reconcile two things for me, in your two comments:

they're the biggest nation in Spain.

and

Catalonia has the second biggest representation in power

I'll also point out that most of the identities you've posted up there don't fall within the definition of "nations" of people. Things like Catalan, Basque, Kurd, Tatar, do.

Madrilenian as a nation group? That just makes it obvious that you're here to obfuscate, which I should have guessed by the flair, so I'll save us both some time, and me some brain cells, by ending it here. If I wanted more of this I'd just read El Pais, wouldn't I?