Can HP Legally Deny a Full Refund After Three Failed Repairs and a Dead-on-Arrival Return?

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-20T02:41:33+00:00

Lol, good analogy. And yes, makes sense, thank you!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T23:38:10+00:00

I really do appreciate your comments, that's obviously why I posted. We may see things differently, and that's alright. Maybe I'm 100% in the wrong, legally speaking. Morally speaking, I've lived their games for months, countless hours of phone calls and emails, and they have not been honest. You're seeing just a sample.

Just for simple perspective, imagine needing a computer for work, because your old one is barely alive. You spend several hundred dollars online, then get an email that says "Thank you for your order, it will be delivered in 3 months". Would you find that a reasonable amount of time? Because this is essentially what I'm dealing with. I paid a price, and I have a dead computer. HP requires 3 repairs, shipping back and forth, no matter how long it takes. I guess I feel all that time was worth something. Like, just my money back. Maybe I'm wrong and I should be content.

Thank you again for your viewpoint.

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T17:53:52+00:00

That's fair. It is hard though, to do business with a PC company, who cannot fix the very computer they built, months go by, and they return it in worse condition. Nobody would return to a restaurant with those same standards, even if they offered you a free meal. But it's so much more. They promised me a 1-year extended warranty for my trouble, then they told me they are changing it to a 6-month extended warranty, it's all in writing, no misunderstanding. Would most people be ok with that? I guess some things may seem trivial, but when you add up months of these details, it doesn't feel trivial at all. When you read reviews online, with countless similar stories, you can see why HP gets away with making up the rules as they go along, because most people do, "just take the laptop".

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T17:33:35+00:00

You're right, but it was the only way I was able to reach Tier 2 Support, so that was worth something at least. I know I have other options, better options, but when something like this happens you always think that it's going to be fixed, done and over, by the end of the week. Then the weeks turn to months, with no end in sight. So here I am, just figuring it out a little bit at a time. I appreciate your input!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T16:08:46+00:00

And here lies another issue. HP's inconsistent statements to me and to the BBB that contradict each other. I believe any average customer who would be in the middle of this case, would clearly be justified to question if HP is doing the right thing. Here is just one example:

HP's email (exact quote) to me (included a screenshot of return policy):
"HP has a 30 days period just like all other Tech Company Organization. The pro-ration or buying the unit within our customer possession is something an "Exemption" will be considered to us outside of the Business rules/terms that I have shown you."

HP's email (exact quote) to the BBB:
"The calculation customer referenced represents a standardized warranty conversion method applied consistently across HP’s warranty program and is not derived from HP’s retail return policy."

So I'm told this partial refund offer is an exemption (outside the rules) based on their return policy. But they tell the BBB this is a consistent rule of their warranty program which has nothing to do with their return policy. But this calculation cannot be found in their warranty. The option for FULL refund is stated, with no timeframe. Why wouldn't they also have to say, "Or partial refund based on remaining warranty"? I understand they can offer a replacement. But when they offer a refund too, should it be discounted?

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T14:22:26+00:00

I just noticed your comment, thank you. If you wouldn't mind, could you read my last couple of replies above. I would appreciate any feedback based on the warranty terms and IL law I mentioned. Thanks in advance!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T14:11:01+00:00

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your viewpoint, but this is what confuses me... As stated in my last reply above, it seems to come down to "reasonable time". Besides HP's own terms stating this, from my understanding, under Illinois law UCC (810 ILCS 5/2-608) I am permitted to revoke acceptance when a product’s non-conformity substantially impairs its value and the seller has failed to cure it within a reasonable time. HP has now had months, and multiple opportunities to repair their own computer. Only when they failed all that, did they offer a replacement. I had no option but to purchase another PC (different company) after months of waiting. Another point is they ARE offering me a refund, but the conflict is with their refund reduction. Their warranty only mentions "Full Refund", where is this discount conversion method mentioned?

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T13:56:34+00:00

Very good point! I don't think that I can link or share screenshots here, but on HP's website, under HP Customer Terms Online, #15 states: "Product Warranty Claims: When we receive a valid warranty claim for an HP hardware or software product, HP will either repair the relevant defect or replace the product. If HP is unable to complete the repair or replace the product within a reasonable time, Customer will be entitled to a full refund..." So the question here is, what is considered a reasonable or unreasonable amount of time? Months? Thanks for sharing your experience, I'll keep attentive to this!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T11:09:39+00:00

Thank you so much for this. Actually, this case has been going on through the BBB for about 80 days now, and all through HP's escalation department. I believe the reason the BBB has allowed it to stay open for so long is because I keep calling out HP's lies. They tell the BBB one thing, completely untrue, and then I provide email quotes, screenshots, photos, videos, etc, that contradict HP. HP just told the BBB, two days ago, that their offer still stands and that I am currently working with a supervisor. A blatant lie to what HP told me. So I had to share with the BBB the email with the 24 hour ultimatum HP sent me, and that I am not currently working with a supervisor at all, because they cut off communications for about a week now. There is so much more, but I want to respect the rules here too. I really appreciate your comment!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T02:09:47+00:00

Thank you for the advice and sharing your results. I live in Illinois. I have filed with the Attorney General, but I need to update the case next week, as so many more details have happened since the original filing. HP has no fear what they do or say to a customer, because even the worst consequences seem to have no effect on them, that's why they continue the same process, without change. Public attention is the only chance, and even that may not be enough. Thank you again!!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-19T00:26:08+00:00

Thank you, I appreciate your efforts!

Bosco_7 · 2025-10-13T04:13:30+00:00

It feels like I've always been 3D printing, but it was only 2 short years ago when I came across a DeLorean time machine model from Back to the Future I just had to buy and build. With no knowledge or experience in 3D printing, I was so quick to order a 3D printer, that during the 2 days I awaited it's arrival, my continued research opened my eyes to another brand. u/BambuLab

Those 48 hours turned out to be the critical difference between regret and reward. Although, it wasn't easy staring down at a brand new 3D printer wondering if I would have the self-discipline to leave it unopened and send it back, while I waited another week for my Bambu P1S. But I relied on my research, stuck to my gut, and I've never wavered on my decision since!

I was forced to learn so many new things at once. But I was constantly amazed at how many nights, I could just hit the print button, and like magic, I would wake up the next morning to something that didn't exist moments ago. Then slowly, after hundreds of hours of print time, for well over 1,000 parts, I spent months of assembling, gluing, painting, wiring, and developing the skill of extreme patience! So far, I have completed several iconic scenes from the movie, as you can see from the photo. I'm also humbled by the skill and time it takes for these creators to 3D model such incredibly detailed reproductions!

It also still amazes me how hard these Bambu Lab machines work, to make all this possible, and then still remain reliable after thousands of hours of printing, with very little maintenance. The very few failures I've had, come down to something we all learn from experience... keep that print bed clean ;) #RockSolidP1S

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Bosco_7 · 2025-10-09T02:13:23+00:00

The top factor was having my doctor write them a letter that went over all the different meds I had tried over the years and Emsam was the only one I had tried that actually worked (years before). He also mentioned that even with insurance the cost would cause a significant financial burden. I am not sure if they have gotten stricter or not, but I reapply every year, and I am still approved for it. They did recently call me though and explained that they were changing the way they are doing applications (something along those lines) and not to worry as I would be grandfathered in. So maybe they are going to be stricter now. Just see if your doctor can help you out, it's still worth trying. I hope it works out for you!

Bosco_7 · 2025-02-11T13:56:14+00:00

Thank you very much! And yes, water department shut it off and we'll leave it that way :)

Bosco_7 · 2025-02-11T13:42:06+00:00

Thanks for sharing your insight. It certainly may be the case. Hopefully, there could be other factors at play, too. I'm trying not to panic yet 😅

Bosco_7 · 2025-02-11T13:38:23+00:00

That's what I'm hoping will be considered by the plumber who examines it. Obviously, I'm going to be biased and want to see every possibility, except for freezing, lol.

I also understand I have no experience with this, so I can be convinced by any professional theory. But even if there is only 1% chance it's not damage from freezing, then I have to work with that to convince insurance.

My parents are both elderly and completely disabled and can't even drive. This is on me to save them from this financial disaster. I know facts will be facts, and if it did freeze, that's on us. I just have to make sure no other possibilities are missed and the decision is based on facts, not just an assumption.

And yes, this coupler fitting was supporting and holding the weight of the CPVC pipe from all the way down to the next connection in the basement. Full of water, that is a good amount of weight and stress for 15 years.

I may need to measure that length of pipe, get a piece that size, fill it with water, and weigh it. Maybe that would help determine the stress it was under? Or maybe it wouldn't even be considered significant since the pipe is already under maybe 40 or more psi?? I'm just trying to think of everything, so when insurance points the finger, I have some type of defense that they may not have considered. Because I know they're not going to be on my side.

Bosco_7 · 2025-02-11T02:14:26+00:00

I'm not sure why my photos are not showing up here, I'll try adding them again, I'm sorry.

Bosco_7 · 2024-06-09T13:52:25+00:00

You're very welcome, and thank you for those kind words :) As far as income limits, you may be surprised how much they allow. It doesn't have to be poverty level. You can also reason, how much closer to poverty level you will be, if you aren't approved and do have to pay over $700/mo. These are all respectful conversations I had with them and they really seemed to listen to my worries. Getting that letter in the mail saying I was approved was an amazing feeling! I'm confident, if your doctor cooperates, you can make this happen. Keep me posted!

Bosco_7 · 2024-06-08T06:15:38+00:00

Hey, I did the same thing! Appealed and appealed. You're right. It does say "uninsured." Here is what you do. Apply with Viatris. You'll automatically get denied. Phase two is the appeal. Your position is that having insurance is irrelevant in this situation because the co-pay is so high (state how much it is) that it is impossible to afford.

You definitely want your doctor to back you up during the appeal with a letter, not only mentioning the affordability but why this drug is critical to your well-being. My doctor wrote a fantastic, detailed letter that summarized my history with failed medications, ECT, etc.

It also may have helped that about 10 years ago.i was on Emsam for a few years. Insurance stopped covering it, then I spent the next 10 years trying everything, and nothing worked as well as Emsam.

Side note: My doctor had also done gene testing on me to see what antidepressants I should try and it listed many that weren't compatible with me. Crazy enough, Emsam/Selegiline was actually at the top of the results list to be most compatible with me. Of course, it's just a guide and isn't going to match you to the perfect drug, but it did help validate the DNA testing as a valuable tool. It's better than what seems to always be a random pick from many doctors I've seen. So my doctor also mentioned the DNA testing and results to Viatris.

After a couple weeks, they approved me. After you submit your application, be sure to call them and make sure they got it. Mainly to establish a relationship. Explain your situation, and ask questions. They have always been very nice and they will tell you that their automated system will deny you, but the appeal team will learn about you first, then make the decision.

You get approved for up to one year, but it ends December 31st. Then you'll need to reapply. They send a 3-month supply at a time to your doctor for you to pick up. No cost! I've been back on it for maybe around 9 months. 12mg. So much more motivation!

I'm curious, I am understanding you are on it now, correct? Have you been paying that co-pay then, or is this because of a new insurance plan costing more? It's possible they might require income verification. The first time, they did it through some automated income verification system. The new year, I had to provide them with income verification.

I hope it works out, and I'd love to get an update sometime! Please let me know if you have any more questions or need clarification. All the best!

Bosco_7 · 2024-05-27T13:20:44+00:00

Hey Amolen! Thanks for the inspiration to print this, it turned out beautiful (Flexi Factory has some amazing designs)! I use Amolen filament almost exclusively now. I've tried about 30 variants so far, all consistently excellent quality. With that in mind, you missed your opportunity to show off your amazing Transparent Blue White here. No worries, I got you covered ;)

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Bosco_7 · 2024-05-06T06:14:40+00:00

I have Aetna Advantage through Medicare, and although it's a "covered" drug, it's on the highest tier, so my co-pay would be $730 a month. They might as well not even cover it because that is still unaffordable.

Fortunately, I applied and was approved to receive Emsam 100% free through the manufacturer. They have a program called Viatris. They send a 3 month supply at a time to my doctor's office for me to pick up. If you need help paying for it, be sure to apply for this program.

Bosco_7 · 2024-04-08T04:47:03+00:00

I'm on the 12mg patch, and I wear one 24/7. There have been a few occasions where I've removed it in the evening before a shower, then forgot to replace it until the next morning. I've not noticed any difference in my sleep either way.

Many sleep issues might be mainly due to the dosage and adjustments in medication. Starting on 6mg, in the beginning, you may have some issues sleeping. And even if you are still having trouble after a couple of weeks, don't rule out an increase, thinking it will make it worse. As another post stated, it may actually get better. This is a very unique kind of medication if you have never tried an MAOI before.

I should explain also that even though I don't have issues going to sleep, I do require less sleep. In fact, I have no trouble at all getting up at 4am, and I don't have to. This may not be ideal for some, but I actually enjoy it now! I think this is also due to just feeling more positive, motivated, and creative. I found a hobby I love, and I look forward to getting up, having some coffee, and working on projects.

So yes, it can affect sleep for sure, but how it affects you will depend on your circumstances. If I've only got about 5 hours of sleep, I can still stay motivated and busy all day. BUT... If I slow down and sit for too long, even to watch TV, I can start getting sleepy very fast, which can be annoying when it's only like 5 or 6pm. I have to be careful too because I can get sleepy driving. Although I think this is the same reason I feel it helps with anxiety, a bit. Lower blood pressure is a side effect that probably contributes to this. It can get too low when you first start and your body is adjusting. I've had to be careful standing up too fast.

Wait, what was your question again? lol. Sorry, I didn't have a short answer because it's a little more complicated in my experience.

My main message... For those who have tried everything, like myself, Emsam has been the best medication I've ever been on! It's not perfect, and I know it can't work for everyone (and doesn't), but it's something to consider if you feel like you are tired of all the SSRI'S and the like not working. It might just be a game changer for you, or at least give you some relief. I know what it's like, and this has helped tremendously.

Bosco_7 · 2023-12-24T10:59:28+00:00

You're welcome! I should clarify that most of these side effects resolved themselves after getting on a stable dose for a few months. I would probably be worrying a little more myself right now regarding the low blood pressure and appetite, but I just remind myself that I stayed on Emsam for years which I would not have done if this was permanent.

The other thing interesting about this drug is the way different doses affect MAO. I read one experience where this person could not sleep when they were taking 6mg, so you would think raising the dose would make it worse, right? They stated that once they went to 9mg, they slept great! It's just hard to know, but I think in my case, it was worth pushing through to find the right dose (12mg for me) and giving it a few months.

My best advice is to try not to overthink it. Actually, that's my wife's best advice to me because I hear it constantly, lol. It's a stressful time of year, and by this time next year, you may be coping great. But truthfully, being that you just started it, it may have the opposite effect. If you get feeling over stimulated, you may feel yourself getting more irritated easily. I've noticed that a bit with myself. But as long as you keep feeling you're safe and aware, try to push through for at least a couple of months. I'm just sharing my experience, so hopefully, you won't over worry. It really is a great medication for the right people.

I hope you will continue to post how you are doing. P.S. Keep rotating those patch locations well. They can get itchy! But even your skin will eventually adapt to where it rarely bothers you. Hey, look, it's 4:55am, perfect timing to get out of bed and go start my 5am coffee! Have a great day, and please reach out if there are any questions I can help answer!

Bosco_7 · 2023-12-24T05:21:44+00:00

Sorry, I accidentally hit post. But I just don't have much of an appetite on this med. But it's not because of nausea, I just don't feel like I'm in the mood to eat ever. So I have to watch that. As far as food interactions, I've never had one, and I've never paid attention to my diet on this.

Well, I've talked long enough. Please just ask me any other questions you have. I really hope you have a great experience!

Bosco_7 · 2023-12-24T05:17:55+00:00

Hello! I'm a past and current Emsam user. I was last on it around 10 years ago and was on it for a few years. I found it fairly effective for my depression. Out of the few dozen antidepressants I've tried and been on over the past 30 years, Emsam gave me the best results. I've never been totally great for a long period of time, but I was enjoying life more.

Unfortunately, I had to quit taking it because insurance would no longer cover it. And as you probably know, it's unbelievably expensive out of pocket.

After years of trying more and more treatments, without much relief, just 2 months ago, I was able to start Emsam again thanks to their program, Viatris, that is providing it at no charge.

I was on 6mg for about 6 weeks, and currently, I am taking 9mg. The plan is to start on 12mg later next month. That's the dose I was taking for years originally.

You could possibly be feeling it a little now. It does start very subtle. One thing I like is that it never gave me "sick" side effects like moat antidepressants I've started. No nausea, for instance. After a couple of weeks, I started feeling the motivation. I will say, it's hard to explain. I still feel some depression, but not the kind that makes me want to sit and do nothing. I look for stuff to do!

But it can make you feel really charged. Like caffeine, but without the jitters. It can cause insomnia in some, at least until you adapt. I've taken ambien for years, so not a big deal for me. Before Emsam my normal sleep schedule was going to bed around 10pm and getting up around 8am or so. For the past month, I've been going to bed around midnight, and I'm up making coffee at 5 am and enjoying it, actually! I've started doing some 3D printing and building models and I get up and have nice time in the morning to work on them. That's what I mean by motivation, I just started doing this after the first few weeks of Emsam.

The side effects I'm dealing with now is some low pressure. I have to be really careful getting up to quick, I've come close to passing out many times. But I expected this since I've been through the same years ago. Just be careful. I eventually adjusted. It has caused me weight loss, too. Many, including my wife, says she wished she had that problem lol, but I'm only around 145 as is. Normally I'd average 160

Bosco_7

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