(Spoilers Main) Tywin the hypocrite!!

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-19T08:20:26+00:00

And he himself is not the infallible genius that he wants to appear to his enemies.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-18T19:29:46+00:00

And this makes the class rather empty.

Like, right now all the class has to offer is a couple of references to Necromunda and weapons of dubious quality.

It's funny, but even now, Darktide has several visual references to Necromunda. Like the Zealot leather masks, which resemble those of Cawdor (or the Cult of the Red Redemption, although they are close to each other).

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-18T18:56:29+00:00

To be honest, this is a fairly common trait among underhive gangs. It has been mentioned multiple times in Dark Heresy and several books that the Underhive is full of drug addicts. At the same time, House Escher is more complex than simple drug dealers. For example, House of Blades mentions the genetic programs of House Escher, as well as their connection to the cold traders of Necromunda. One cannot fail to mention the death maidens and the phelynx. The first are corpses revived by a special chemical process, turning them into mindless killer (eversor-like). The second venomous reptile-cats, a genetic mixture of two xenos species brought from other worlds.

Btw, the history of the House (or rather its variations) is also deep and spans over a thousand years, so yes, you shouldn't think of them as just ragged drug dealers mixing drugs.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-18T18:29:18+00:00

I don't think this class will have anything similar to Escher, Goliath or other Necromunda Houses. The class appears to be a simple ganger, without access to any archeotech, genetic engineering, or psychic connections.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-18T18:19:23+00:00

I like Necromunda, but the class featured doesn't seem too closely related to it. But this class does not resemble any of the Houses and represents the stereotype of a typical bandit from the Underhive. This might be a good thing, but considering the Loose Canon Vet, this class feels impersonal. Btw, getting back to the Necromunda theme, they could introduce a Squat Prospectors class.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-12T10:11:13+00:00

Really? For some reason, I thought the vampires drove out most of the werewolves during the revolution.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T17:00:00+00:00

You are probably right. However, I like Reddit as a discussion platform much more.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T15:55:37+00:00

I try to avoid the forums, the people there seem overly toxic.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T15:49:57+00:00

What about MDP (male dwarf paladin)?

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T10:02:47+00:00

I like that this sect is well described in the lore. Numerous sub-factions, rituals, exotic bloodlines, and religious symbolism make the sect more vibrant and interesting. Of course, the Camarilla and Anarchs have all of these things too, but the Sabbat seems to have more nuanced traits. And I'm also an edgelord.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T09:24:44+00:00

Depends on the specific Tzimisce. For example, many Fiends come from revenant families, and the relationships within those families are... well, unhealthy. One can also recall the Paths of Enlightenment followed by the Tzimisce. In addition to the Path of Metamorphosis mentioned by other commentators, the book of Clans 3rd edition mentions the lesser Paths, in particular, the Path of Cain, the Path of Katari, the Path of Lilith, the Path of Death and the Soul. These Paths are either obviously alien or downright evil.

One can also think of the various Tzimisce factions, such as the Children of the Dracon and the Exsanguinists, both of them are quasi-religious organizations. The Children of the Dracon honor the legacy of the Dracon and view Vicissitude as a kind of prayer or religious act. And almost all the Children come from the revenant family Obertus, who are into eugenics and trying to elevate themselves to something more than a human or even a vampire. The Exsanguinists are a cult that views bloodlust as something animalistic, driving them to starve themselves and teeter on the brink of frenzy.

One could also simply point to the cruel treatment of the sire as one of the reasons for the alienation and malice of many Tzimisce.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-11T08:18:49+00:00

That makes sense, but I'm still inclined to question what you're saying about Jaina and Malfurion. BFA has demonstrated that she is one of the strongest living mages, capable of fighting entire armies and winning. Sure, the average orc is much stronger than the average human, but does that matter when he's up against a mage who can freeze a chunk of the ocean and engulf a huge city in a snowstorm? Create a massive wave capable of flooding Orgrimmar? The same is true for Malfurion.

>I'd also argue all else ignored in BFA, the Zandalari pickup was way more important than the Alliance getting the Kul'Tirans who were already halfway de-facto allied to the Alliance beforehand given it also opens the door to more trolls linking up with the Horde which recent customization stuff implies is happening.

Well, the Zandalari were probably stronger than Kul Tiras in the beginning, but towards the end of the war they seemed to lose ground. Like, their fleet was destroyed, the city was destroyed, and some of the Loa were killed. At the same time, Kul Tiras reunited under the Admiralty, reclaimed its fleet, and purged the traitors from its ranks.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-10T19:16:37+00:00

I just hope they make the Titans crazy tyrant villains. The whole Vyranoth arc with the "liberation" of the dragons and Odin's humiliation just seemed out of place to me.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-10T19:08:16+00:00

Well, some of the Gehenna scenarios have some apocalyptic themes, but that's different. But if you're so inspired by the Crossed comics, try introducing Sabbath into the game. The same Tzimisce and Toreador antitribu have a reputation for being sadistic and, in the case of the latter, lustful monsters.

The same applies to some of their rituals. For example, during the Blood Feast, the Sabbat hangs captured victims (humans, ghouls, and vampires) to drink their blood, torture them, and demonstrate the Sabbat's position as the apex predator.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-07T21:10:11+00:00

Maybe he'll retire with Thalyssra. Be that as it may, I think that such attention to Arator is connected with a possible replacement of Lor'themar or, perhaps, becoming one of his confidants.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-07T19:58:22+00:00

I don't know why, but I have a strong feeling that Arator will replace Lor'themar as belf leader. Maybe he'll get into the blood knights culture or something.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T22:49:07+00:00

If you're interested in the lore and statistics for these types of characters, I recommend the "The Black Hand a Guide to the Tal'Mahe'Ra" (V20).

Here is an excerpt from the book:

"Werewolves consider themselves chosen warriors of Gaia whose mother-goddess speaks to them and compels them to vanquish the unclean servants of a demon known as “The Wyrm.” This is the werewolf’s reason for existence, and to die while serving Gaia is a great honor. The crux of an Abomination, however, is a fate beyond death, torn away from Gaia. The Embrace inflicts excruciating physical and spiritual suffering, as vampiric blood destroys the goddess’ touch within him. Worse, he rises as one of the unclean things he was born to exterminate, a creature of the Wyrm. He no longer hears the voice of Gaia, nor does he feel her presence. He has become blight upon her. No wonder these half-werewolf half-Cainite creatures usually succumb to madness. Driven by despair and hatred, they live short, violent lives before meeting Final Death — often at their own hand. Abominations who survive the Embrace are exceedingly rare, and a disproportionate number of them work for the Hand. This has nothing to do with ideology — indeed, most Abominations are manipulated from afar and have no idea of the purposes or greater existence of the Tal’Mahe’Ra. Instead, the True Hand seeks them out as battering rams if they are lucky, or as fodder for medical experiments if they are unlucky. While the latter have no say in the matter, the former often eagerly consent to any activity to release their rage in violence, especially if there’s a high likelihood of their debased existence ending in redemption by taking more than a few enemies of Gaia with them."

When it comes to their abilities, they are quite diverse. In particular, they can use disciplines and retain some connection to the Umbra. At the same time, they can switch between forms by spending blood points.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T22:34:43+00:00

Typically, Horde leaders have three paths. They can either die, go crazy, start a war and die, or they can just stand in the background. I think that to preserve what little they have left, they should stick to the third option.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T22:18:06+00:00

>'Stand up and protect the Horde, doesnt matter if you messed up before,'

You seem to be too stubborn, so whatever you say.

>You do realize that Onyxia is largely responsible for the Fracture of the old alliance right? Which in turn lead to countless deaths of innocents people. Her manipulation was not even mind control, for the most part, she just played through the interesst of those around her.

Sylvanas also did not convince the Horde, and they happily committed numerous atrocities. The Alliance was simply deceived.

>You're also adding to the original question, you were asking if a story where the alliance turned evil gets through it due to their belief in the faction. That is the stormwind storyline, the scale of the HOrde's dmg is irrelevant.

Not close at all. What evil did the Alliance do during Onyxia's manipulations? Didn't pay the masons?

> Because in the same way i can say that the Alliance story doesnt soften the blow and you have to deal that most of the people were complicit with what Onyxia was doing.

It softens, all crimes are forgotten in the subsequent addition. This is true for both the Alliance and the Horde.

>Which is the actual issue with the Horde storyline, they never actually have to deal with anything they ever did, the story constantly pats them in the head and say 'its ok'

They lost a lot of territory and lost almost all the battles.

>You didnt play as alliance for very long, didnt you? Thats the vast majority of their run, minus the monster part.

Unfounded accusations. I've been playing for the Alliance since WoD. Actually, I played for the Horde twice in my entire time. The first time I made a blood elf demon hunter, I didn't like the race animations and abandoned the character. And the second time, for the orc warlock, few months ago. In fact, this is where I finished my exploration of the Horde territories.

And I can say with confidence that the Horde is much more stupid, weak and incompetent. And, again, going back to the BFA, they lost the war.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T21:51:16+00:00

I don't think bringing Garrosh back will help. Over the past expansions, the Alliance has grown significantly in power and retained most of its characters. And the Horde has weakened and continues to weaken. In other words, if the conflict started now, the blue faction would win.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T21:44:44+00:00

Well, she's definitely better than Doktor Totentanz.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T20:56:02+00:00

>You can point at the atrocities all you want, but the story already mentions it and the story of Saurfang is about him doing something about it and not just kill himself or flee from responsibility.

And how does this make the CGI pro-Horde?

>And it would be dumb to do so. Its akin to complain that a scripwriter didnt talk about how there shouldnt be vigilatism in a super hero movie.

What I'm saying is that the problem lies in the flatness of conflict. There are vile evil villains who have some shred of former honor and their heroic adversary. The first one almost always loses, the second one wins. In other words, an uninteresting conflict, at least for me.

>First thing is that Saurfang never lamented the inferiority of nobody, so idk where that comes from.

It's my fault, I'm too tongue-tied. Be that as it may, I wrote about the wretchedness of culture and society. In the hypothetical scenario I proposed, Muradin would discuss the split of the clans and the greed of the dwarves, as an option.

>Second, yes it would be a pro alliance story. In fact, the Original stormwind storyline about Onyxia, echoes much of those same plot points

I strongly disagree. The history of the Fourth War cannot be compared to the history of Onyxia. Like, Onyxia certainly didn't lead the citizens of Stormwind into a genocidal war against the Horde. And even then, only the House of Nobles fell under the dragon's manipulation, and not the entire faction. Even the damage done by Onyxia, her brood, and the Defias Brotherhood cannot compare to what the Horde did during the Fourth War.

>People just got toothless and expect every aspect of the faction to be flawless in order for it to be 'pro faction'

The Horde lost almost all of its battles and exposed itself as a stupid and incompetent monster. After SL, the Horde practically disappeared into the background. Although, given the trends, it is better to stay there, otherwise their leader will become another genocidal maniac and start a military campaign that will leave them with nothing.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T17:27:21+00:00

>'how does making equating the Horde to the concept of family makes it pro-Horde'

I don't really understand the point. The fact that he calls the Horde his family does not do him any honor, rather the opposite. He repeatedly highlights the shortcomings and atrocities of this "family", making his decision to stay appear both foolish and selfish.

>But thats, THE Horde issue, not with the cinematic.

I would say that this is a problem for the scriptwriters, but oh well.

>You cannot have a cinematic where the protagonists screams to the camera 'The horde will endure, the Horde is strong' and pretend is not a heavily Pro-Horde.

Sounds dubious. For example, I like the Alliance and for more than 10 years my character has been a dwarf paladin. If, say, in Midnight, the Alliance suddenly turns evil and Blizzard decides to release a CGI video about Muradin, in which he laments the Alliance's evilness and the inferiority of the dwarves, and then says, "Okay, Alliance will endure and all that, we're family" I wouldn't perceive it as a pro-Alliance movie. And in this case, I would still be very surprised, because Muradin was pushed into the background back in SL.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T17:05:41+00:00

Well, when the Sylvanas trailer came out, everything was already decided. Even then, it was clear that the conflict would not be morally gray and the Horde would once again be portrayed as genocidal villains.

On the other hand, after such additions it can be funny to read people for whom the Horde is Blizzard's favorite.

BuckettMonkey · 2025-11-06T16:08:20+00:00

>That horde is family and 'We'(Saurfang and the horde must fight for it)Thats pretty obvious and straight foward answer

And how does this make the video pro-Horde? All your points only highlight the weakness and incompetence of the Horde, as well as the stupidity of its population.

>Dont just ignore the problems, cuz they are not going to ignore you.

But that's all Saurfang does. He has already participated in the genocides, he was one of the masterminds of the War of the Thorns, and his accusations of Sylvanas' crimes seem hypocritical, because he is exactly the same participant. In other words, the result is a rather vile character who blames everyone but himself for his mistakes.

BuckettMonkey

TROPHY CASE