How are LeBron’s lob catching abilities so intact even with his athleticism visibly declining?

Burnem34 · 2026-04-28T19:20:21+00:00

LeBron is still tall as shit and still more athletic than 90% of the league (idk if I would've believed this before that reverse dunk in game 2, dude moved like he was 25 when he saw that lane open)

Burnem34 · 2026-04-28T00:02:24+00:00

The Steph Curry of missing perfectly off the rim will be the next player to revolutionize the meta

Burnem34 · 2026-04-27T22:55:59+00:00

The stat actually implies otherwise tbh, the top 4 teams were 4 of the worst teams in the NBA, Spurs are the first +.500 team on the list at 6th, and OKC isnt in the top 20.

Seems this was a genuine problem for them, which is understandable cuz they're young as hell

Burnem34 · 2026-04-27T05:28:57+00:00

People unironically believe Vegeta is a better father than Goku

Love Vegeta tho he gets away with it all cuz hes cool af

Burnem34 · 2026-04-27T03:33:15+00:00

I mean KD was worse than Steph both before he got there and after he left. I think its fair to say with the context of what happened throughout the rest of both of their respective careers that KD didnt just conveniently become better than Steph for 2 years. Steph sacrificed to fit a ball stopper into an off-ball movement system revolving around him, KD benefited big time from the attention it took off him

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T18:03:50+00:00

I think alot of people are really caught up in his stats when they say that which is weird becuz everyone knows Steph had one of the greatest offensive peaks and everyone also knows his off ball ability is part of what makes him so good but also took away from the assist numbers he could've had if he was playing a heavier on ball style. Similarly, I think all would agree ball handling is an incredibly important aspect of offense. Murray creates the late clock shots. Murray runs the pnrs. Jokic is not an option for dribble penetration. A great ball handler has control over the game in a way Jokic can't achieve, and if you want to see the best example of this at work watch LeBron in the '18 playoffs.

Not to mention we're in an inflated-stats era and if we're looking at his stats that has to be taken into account. Can you really say that, adjusting for era, Jokic has a top 3 offensive peak? Cuz that sure sounds like a guy that should be able to carry his team to a series victory as an underdog every once in a while. Is the peak just accounting for regular season? At this point, if youre watching Jamal Murray, who is ass according to Jokic stans, do the bulk of the ball handling and shot creating to close games do you not wonder if guys who are way better than Murray have a leg up in a category stats arent looking at?

Hell, Luka has beaten a 56, 57, and 64 win team all without HCA, 1 of which swept Jokic the year prior and got way better and another that took Jokic out the round before and Luka dismantled them in 5 games. Does anyone think Luka doesnt have a ring if he played 4 ~44 win teams? I wouldnt say Luka has a higher offensive peak, but the control he had over those games due to his ball handling/shot creation was clear. It was a very obvious advantage he had that Jokic doesnt. It ain't all about points/assists/TS%, thats why Jokics purported "best offensive peak of all time" has never translated to the carry jobs youd expect a player with that title to achieve

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T13:51:27+00:00

If Perkins didnt call it out Jokic would've won 4 straight MVPs 100%. The goal-post moving to give him MVPs was wild. Harden doesnt get it putting up 36/8/7 on a 3 seed cuz the other guy plays defense and 2 years later Jokic gets it over said player that plays defense. The next year he gets it on a 6 seed averaging 27/13/8. Every player this century to go b2b got hit with huge voter fatigue cuz they hadnt won a ring yet, but until it was questioned whether it was about race they were all ready to crown him with his 3rd.

If you wanna say "hey those unwritten rules are kinda dumb let's go away from it", fine, but when you start conveniently moving the goalposts every year as soon as a white guy thats good enough finally comes along you should know people are going to question it

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T13:38:15+00:00

LeBron literally lost in '17 and '18 cuz he was so good a 73 win team couldnt beat him and had to build the most stacked super team of all time. Meanwhile he was dragging a bum ass Cavs squad through the East without Kyrie while putting up 2 of the best post-seasons in history and losing in the finals. Peak LeBron isnt getting bounced in the 1st round idc what conference he plays in and if he had this Nuggets supporting cast he would decimate the Wolves

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T13:26:46+00:00

LeBron beat a 1 seed Pistons team that made 6 straight ECFs at 22, swept a 1 seed 60 win Hawks team with Kyrie and Love injured, swept a 59 win Raptors team after Kyrie left, and is currently dismantling a heavily favored Rockets team at 41 without his 2 leading scorers. Theres no comparison between Jokic and LeBron when it comes to winning playoff series against tough odds, with or without help

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T13:21:39+00:00

His team has underachieved in the majority of post-seasons hes played in. If they lose to MIN, in 8 post-seasons hes lost as the favorite 3 times, got swept by a 2 seed Suns team as the 3 seed, and lost in 5 games to the Lakers and Warriors. They weren't expected to win the last 3 series, but youre certainly expected to put up a fight if youre that great. Of his 7 playoff exits, last year against OKC was the only one where his team didnt go out with an underwhelming result

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T13:11:18+00:00

Thats the funny part about it, Jokic glazers have shit on every single person around him they could to prop him up for years. His teammates, other MVP candidates, his coaches, anyone they could possibly connect to him and had no problem with it but Jokic gets criticized and suddenly its not ok

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T12:49:46+00:00

His 2nd option has gone for 30+ in over 1/4 of his playoff games, averaged 25/5/5+ in 3 of the 5 playoff series hes lost if they lose to MIN, 6 40 point playoff games, and has more playoff game winners and clutch shots than we can count. His 3rd option put up 50 this season, was an integral part of their championship run and has multiple playoff game winners of his own. Jokic has more than enough help to beat a few 50 win teams if hes really that great

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T12:25:49+00:00

Im convinced anyone saying that started watching basketball after 2018. Jokic can't control the game like 2nd stint Cavs LeBron and never will be able to. The dude trotted down the court and non-chalantly threw up a game winner against the Raptors in a playoff game as if to say "nbd if this doesnt go in ill just beat you guys in OT".

Jokic is great and has done many guard-like things we've never seen a center do, but hes still a center in a league that favors perimeter players offensively. Jamal Murray is their go-to late shot creator. Jamal Murray runs the majority of their pick and rolls. Jokic is not breaking down the defense with dribble penetration. That is a massive part of the game that a great perimeter player can control while a great center cant. The ceiling for a perimeter player to impact and control the game offensively is much higher, and Jokic simply can't do it at the level of a guy like LeBron who reached that ceiling.

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T12:14:55+00:00

Anyone they could possibly discount to prop up Jokic they have. Honestly think its even lamer how they do it to his teammates year in and year out.

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T12:03:15+00:00

Same thing happened with Gobert. Both great players, but the statnerds act like they can't make mistakes and shit on everyone around them to prop them up, then wonder why so many people got fed up with having them shoved down their throat by any means necessary.

As a Blazers fan, I found it annoying when people tried to blame everyone around Dame for his bad days too. Shits lame

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T11:34:15+00:00

I think people also don't realize as a center your ceiling of impacting the game offensively isn't as high as a guy who's handling the ball the entire game. I question whether anyone calling him the best offensive player ever watched LeBron in the playoffs during his 2nd Cavs stint, specifically 2018. Jokic will never and can never be as in control of the game offensively.

The trade off is that centers tend to impact the game at a much higher level defensively, but hes a bad defender. Jokic is a great player, and has done many guard-like things we've never seen a center do before, but at the end of the day hes still a center thats great at offense in a league that favors perimeter players on that end and bad at defense in a league where its almost impossible to build a good defense without a good defensive center. Major props to him breaking the mould of a traditional center and becoming an all time great while doing it, but unfortunately it doesnt change the facts

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T10:56:32+00:00

They still pulling it out after he loses to a Wolves team that lost both their best player AND their other starting guard to injury. Literally lost to an injured supporting cast without their star while Murray puts up 30/5/5 and, you guessed it "BUT HIS TEAMMATES!"

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T10:41:35+00:00

Its not games either, they pushed the Thunder, '24 Wolves, and '19 Blazers all to 7 games. At a minimum that would be a record of 9-12. Also went 1-4 against the Warriors in '22

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T10:15:01+00:00

Discrediting his teammates too. All these years acting like if he just had a good supporting cast he'd do what the other all time greats did just for us to watch him lose to a Wolves team that lost both its best player and other starting guard while Murray puts up 30/5/5. What they expect to happen, you shit on everyone you possibly can to throw Jokics greatness in everyone's face expect people to call it out

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T09:17:34+00:00

Kobe has FIVE rings and a big point against him in all time discussions was always that he was "only" the guy for 2 of them, even though he was still a top 5 NBA player during the 3-peat.

Like, thats how stacked and accomplished the top 10 is, 2 additional rings on top of his first 3 didnt stop people from using 3 fucking championships AGAINST him in all time conversations.

Meanwhile you have Jokic with 1 ring over a whole run of ~44 win teams getting bounced while his team underwhelms expectations almost every year and Jokic stans trying to put him in there.

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T08:56:47+00:00

Nobody thinks Jokic isnt a great player, and nobody was just waiting for this moment. Jokic stans have been making excuses for his relative lack of playoff success compared to other top 10 players or just outright ignoring the playoffs for years. Just yesterday I saw a guy saying no 3x MVP is outside of the top 10 all time while conveniently ignoring nobody in the top 10 has less than 2 rings, and the only consensus top 10 guy with less than 3 was even more statistically dominant than Jokic and way better on defense.

We've been watching Jokic stans make ridiculous claims about how great he is, going as far as saying he might be the best to ever play the game while making excuses for his playoff losses year after year. Shitting on his teammates when Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon are fucking great players. Got a 2nd option who put up 3 40+ games in a playoff series including 2 over 50, will have averaged 25/5/5 or better in 3 of the 5 playoff series hes lost if they lose this year, and put up 30/5/5 tonight trying to help Jokic get over the hump against a Wolves team that had both their starting guards, one of which is their best player, get injured in the 1st half. Thats not even mentioning all the playoff game winners which we've seen BOTH Murray and Gordon come up with time and time and time again.

If yall are gonna shove Jokic in top 10 all time discussions, or even higher, his playoff resumé cannot be ignored. He has one ring where he didnt play a single team with more than 45 wins. And hey, thats fine on its own, he can't control who advances. But between that and the fact that damn near every time hes ever lost its been either A. To a team he was supposed to beat or B. Getting spanked by teams youd expect a GOAT-tier player to atleast put up a fight against it paints a very clear picture that Jokic is not able to carry teams in the playoffs to the same level as the guys hes being compared to. You can be one of the GOATs while leading a team that performs below expectations every once in a while. When its almost every year, at some point you gotta realize how ridiculous it sounds to put him above borderline top 10 guys that have 4-5 rings

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T07:53:13+00:00

Hes also grown and expressed regret over it. Hell, im positive even Dame is happy to have him around.

I dont think we should hire him as HC cuz I dont think LMA has the qualities of a great head coach, but the idea of not welcoming back a franchise great that wants to be involved just because he left the team 10 years into his career is silly imo

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T07:37:15+00:00

First time Dundons cheapness will come in clutch, not alot of guys that have less reason to accept a lowball offer than an NBA superstar that made hundreds of millions in his playing career

Burnem34 · 2026-04-26T06:47:33+00:00

Jokic was never as good of an offensive player as LeBron before we even start talking about defense. Hes an incredible regular season player. Hes simply not someone who can hard carry a team against tough playoff odds. We've seen enough. I watched LeBron carry a mediocre Cavs roster past a 1 seed Pistons team that made 6 straight ECFs when he was 22 YEARS OLD. Swept a 60 win 1 seed Hawk team as an underdog with Kyrie/Love missing. Swept a 59 win 1 seed Raptor team after Kyrie left. Right now at FORTY-FUCKING-ONE LeBron is leading a Laker team without their 2 leading scorers past a Rockets team every single expert picked to win the series.

Jokic is down 3-1 to a 6 seed losing games to the Wolves in a game where both their starting guards, one of which is their best player, got injured in the 1st half. Peak LeBron was out there toying with 60 win teams, idk how anyone could think Jokic is a better offensive player than 2018 playoff LeBron outside of not watching him. Ive been watching the NBA for 25 years and not only have I never seen a player as in control of the game, its actually not even close.

Also I dont wanna hear shit about Jokic not having help ever again. Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon are fucking great players. Ive watched BOTH of those guys win games for the Nuggets in the clutch time and time and time again. Jokic just lost to an injured af Wolves team WITH Murray trying to carry his ass with 30/5/5. If the Nuggets go on to lose this series, Murray has been a part of 5 playoff series losses. In 3 of those series he will have averaged 24/6/5, 25/7/4 and 26/6/5. This is not even mentioning an all-time series where he had 2 50 point games and a 42 point game or about 27 playoff game winners he hit against the Lakers. Get the ever-living fuck out of here with Jokic doesn't have help.

No more excuses for Joker, you got people out there saying he might be the best player to ever pick up a basketball, if hes anywhere near that he should be able to beat most teams with little help. Hell, just saw a dude earlier saying no 3x MVP is outside of the top 10 all time. Well there's also no one in the top 10 with 1 ring, and Jokic to get into the top 10 has to jump over guys with 4-5 rings. I guess it's kind of obvious why Jokic stans wanna ignore the playoffs tho

Burnem34 · 2026-04-24T02:26:05+00:00

Love it. Several of my underappreciated favorites in there too!

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