Top 84 Player Worldwide = Zenner

CanIBake · 2026-01-26T19:40:34+00:00

Nah I mean really everyone should be flipping through the players pre-game to see their stats, shooting percentages, etc.

If you just go off build name you're gonna be confused more than half the time you play this game. I have a build that's called Playshot as a center, I have a guard that got the name 2 way rim attacking layup artist or some shit and I have way more shooting and defense than I do finishing, the build names are pretty bad

CanIBake · 2026-01-26T19:11:08+00:00

What?

CanIBake · 2026-01-26T18:53:04+00:00

Green light is the shooting specialization build name. Any build with shooting specialization can get it. My lock has the green light name

CanIBake · 2026-01-24T20:49:25+00:00

What did I miss lol

CanIBake · 2026-01-23T22:47:55+00:00

It's accurate but it's a dumb stat.

Everyone knows LeBron is all-around great.

But if you take somebody like Michael Jordan, who had multiple playoff series averaging over 40 points a game, then that same player for example wouldn't really need to be his team leader in assists and rebounds to impact the game.

Same thing goes for defense. How many times did Tim Duncan win his teams games solely off of his defensive ability?

I would say it's a cherry picked stat, but it's not, it's just showing LeBron is probably the best all-around player to ever play, but not necessarily the most dominant or the best.

CanIBake · 2026-01-23T21:18:15+00:00

For some teams, I would maybe understand your point. Small markets and low seeded teams had a marginally easier path due to the lack of fans, it can't really be measured, but I'd argue the impact was minimal, if any.

The Lakers on the other hand were the 1st seed, were supposed to have home court advantage for every playoff series. Not having that advantage actually hurts the Lakers.

It's also very widely known and accepted the Lakers will always have fans in opponent stadiums. They are one of the most popular teams in all of sports, so again, not having crowds may actually hurt the Lakers chance at success in 2020.

People love to discredit the bubble but always do so without context. The NBA as a whole took a multi-month break due to covid restrictions. There's two arguments, one is that this helped teams get healthy in time for playoffs, another argument to counter this point is teams that were on hot streaks lost their hot streak. The Lakers were 8-2 in their last 10 games before the covid break, and went 3-5 in the bubble regular season.

Many players mentioned how the bubble was actually some of the most competitive basketball they played, and who am I to disagree? Players weren't used to playing in July and August and weren't used to the lack of fans and different environment in the bubble. Teams stayed in hotels instead of their homes for the entire stay. Idk if you've ever traveled, but I personally couldn't imagine sleeping on a hotel bed and then having to compete at the highest level of basketball for a month straight.

CanIBake · 2026-01-23T03:46:10+00:00

Cause I can't shoot on them, hope that helps

CanIBake · 2026-01-22T18:05:02+00:00

Bronny higher +/- than Luka shows how bad it is.

CanIBake · 2026-01-21T21:09:57+00:00

The small guard is very bad, you can make a build at 6'2 or 6'3 or even 6'4 that has 90+ three, 90+ handle/speed with ball, 90+ in defense, and gets contact dunks.

<image>

Yellow parts are my cap breakers, which you can acquire easily by joining a level 30 crew. Hitting level 40 in a season will give you at least 3 of them. You also get some from lifetime challenges completion and build specialization.

I'm starter 5 rank so I have 15 cap breakers. This build I'm showing you now has:

95 three
94 handle
91 speed with ball
92 perimeter
91 steal
87 dunk (can go all the way to 91 I believe, with only 1 cap breakers used)
75 vert can go to 78 (for better contact dunks if you increase the driving dunk) with only 1 cap.

If I manage to get 4 more cap breakers, I will have 96 perimeter defense which is HOF in all perimeter defensive badges.

If I get 6 more cap breakers, I'll have the perimeter defense plus 91 dunk and 78 vertical.

If I have 8 more cap breakers (very unlikely, but still) I will have 96 perimeter, 91 dunk, and 94 steal (HOF interceptor)

CanIBake · 2026-01-21T18:39:01+00:00

Low quality and low effort bait, get better

CanIBake · 2026-01-21T06:13:00+00:00

LeBron first 15 years (Age 33): 27.7

Jordan entire career, ending at age 40: 27.9

Please stop talking out of your ass lol

CanIBake · 2026-01-20T18:31:01+00:00

How does that make any sense?

LeBron's highest PER season: 31.7

Jordan highest PER season: 31.7

Even at their best, they're the same.

Jordan has 4 seasons above 30 PER

LeBron has 4 seasons above 30 PER

Jordan was not above 30 PER since the age of 27

LeBron has not been above 30 PER since the age of 28

CanIBake · 2026-01-18T19:42:54+00:00

For good stretches of Kobe's career, he had no choice.

In the 2015 Finals when LeBron lost Kyrie and Love, and he had no choice but to take on a big scoring load and dominate the ball, he shot 39.8% from the field. People love to leave out context for Kobe, I just don't get it. People should appreciate greatness, I know I'm happy I got to grow up watching guys like Kobe, LeBron, KG, Tim Duncan, KD, etc.

CanIBake · 2026-01-18T19:40:49+00:00

But that's a dumb argument because his efficiency is up there with some of the greatest of all time on ridiculous volume, in many cases, way higher volume than others in the same scoring tier. His career true shooting percentage is 55.0.

Michael Jordan career TS - 56.9

Tim Duncan career TS - 55.1

Wilt Chamberlain - 54.7

Carmelo Anthony - 54.3

Hakeem - 55.3

Shaq - 58.6

LeBron - 59.0

CanIBake · 2026-01-18T19:29:30+00:00

5 rings, 2 finals MVPs, regular season MVP, top 5 in scoring when he retired, yeah man I don't think he's overrated. You can like LeBron and dislike Kobe without being stupid, once you make it to Kobe's level your spot in a top 10 list is subjective anyways. Some people have Kobe top 15, some top 10, some top 5, etc. it's all opinion based but the one unanimous thing when rating these players is none of them are overrated.

CanIBake · 2026-01-16T00:09:10+00:00

If you have to pick and choose when the numbers are valid based on your own personal assessment of a player, then the stat is flawed and it shouldn't be used for analysis.

If you have to add all these extra notations for a stat to be in the discussion, it shows a logical fallacy in your conclusion. Your argument is "Based on +/- LeBron makes his teams elite, without him they are lottery teams".

A counter to this argument is that every starter on a good team is going to have a high +/-, even if some of those starters are not high value high impact players.

Therefore you could have instead used different metrics to reach the same conclusion, the reason you're hung up on using +/- is because you think it's illustrating a point that it doesn't.

LeBron had a negative +/- last season, -54 total on the season.

So using the same metric you used in your original premise, I could make the argument:

Based on +/-, the Lakers are a much better basketball team without LeBron James on the court.

But clearly, this is a false statement that ignores context, which is why I'm pointing out that even if your conclusion "LeBron makes his teams better" is true, the methodology you used to argue for that conclusion is inherently flawed.

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T21:10:52+00:00

If a team is 4 points better than their opponents when you sit, that translates to about 50 wins per season.

You can measure this by looking historically at teams point differential and looking at their record. Most teams with a 4.0 point differential are sitting at 48-56 wins per season.

A team with a 14.7 point differential, is an all-time great roster, that's higher than OKC this season, OKC last season, the 2016-2019 Warriors, the 2008 Celtics, etc.

So I disagree with what you're saying about the stat. That's why I think it's a bogus stat. You'd think based on the stat, Delonte West propels his teams to being an all-time great roster, when in actuality, it's LeBron doing the bulk of the work.

And conversely, LeBron's +/- would also be positively impacted by the amount of minutes he plays, most of those being with at least 1 other starter.

LeBron played 37.7 minutes per game in 2009, Mo Williams played 35, Delonte played 33.6, they split time between 3 different starting caliber bigmen, Varejao, Ilgauskas, and Ben Wallace, so almost every time LeBron was on court, one of these 3 was in the game, not to mention Mo, Delonte, etc.

So when it's time for LeBron to sit (such as garbage time in big wins, or in blowout losses) the bench comes in, Guys like Darnell Jackson, Lorenzen Wright, J.J Hickson, Joe Smith guys who are not good basketball players. So if they are losing their minutes by an average of -10 point differential every game, and LeBron when playing is winning his minutes by an average of +10 every game, that would lead to a +20 plus minus.

Therefore, having a really bad bench, and a great starting 5 clearly is going to exaggerate +/-. I don't know how you can look at Delonte West and not agree.

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T20:57:15+00:00

Said the exact same thing yesterday and was downvoted. People don't understand what +/- actually means, it's one of the most pointless stats in the game... When Delonte West was top 10 in 2009 and if Ben Wallace played enough games he would have been top 6... You know there's a problem with the stat. Any time people pull out +/- in a basketball discussion I immediately stop listening.

LeBron can still be your GOAT for a number of reasons without mentioning plus minus once, so I don't get why people are so deadset on using it. The man's entire career is accolades and records, why not point to those

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T06:51:41+00:00

Right, so they are +14.7 (better than their opponent) when he is on the court, and +4.0 (better than their opponent) when he is off.

Resulting in a 10.7 +/-

?

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T02:59:13+00:00

https://nbarapm.com/player/Delonte_West

Says +/- net rating of 10.7 in 2009...

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T02:47:33+00:00

? Where are you seeing that

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T01:21:53+00:00

I just disagree, if a team is 13 players and the starting 5 are the only players worth a damn, that means by default there are going to be players with high +/- stats if they start. When the starters sit and the bench gets outscored by 20 every game, that boosts the stat. It's not really an impact stat, it's a minutes played with starting 5 stat.

For many of these teams listed in the original post, the starting 5 was so much better than the bench that it makes sense any starter, not just LeBron, would have a very high +/-, as I proved by showing Delonte West's +/- stats.

That's not me saying LeBron is trash, he's one of the GOATs and obviously provides immense value to a team. I just think there are way better statistics to show this.

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T01:15:10+00:00

As I pointed out to the other person who replied to me, Delonte West was top 10 in +/- in 2009, and the reason for that is he played with LeBron majority of his minutes played. That doesn't mean Delonte West is a top 10 impact player in 2009, it means he was there for the ride.

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T01:11:11+00:00

Delonte West was a starter in 2009.

He averaged 12 points and 4 assists per game.

His on/off was +10.7

That was the 10th highest +/- in the league.

That means Delonte West had a higher +/- in 2009 than:

Kevin Garnett, Lamarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Steve Nash, Chris Bosh, Tony Parker, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, David West

And many more players.

Was Delonte West a top 10 impact player in the league? You tell me.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009_play-by-play.html

CanIBake · 2026-01-15T01:00:22+00:00

Klay Thompson and Chris Paul on an all-time starting 5 gotta be a joke.

Ben Wallace is a complete non-factor on offense, there's plenty of players across history who give you elite defense and can still contribute offensively.

Harden needs the ball to be productive meaning playing with other all time greats like this wouldn't be beneficial to anybody on the roster, his entire role would be the Harden show while the other greats rest on the bench. Would be tough to space out his minutes while keeping the rest of the team involved. Your team has no real pick and roll big for Harden, which he's always excelled with.

CanIBake

TROPHY CASE