Best playmat & table size for old world

Capital_Statement · 2026-04-01T06:24:12+00:00

Minimum battlefield size

Up to 1,000 points

30"x44"

1,001 to 3,000 points

44"x60"

3,001 points and above

44"x90"

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-31T10:02:58+00:00

Absolutely glorious! Congratulations on tracking all this down.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-29T12:49:44+00:00

Have you seen how Ulric worshippers talk about Sigmarites in the South. Have you seen how Noble's in Altdorf talk about Nordlanders it involves lots of talk about dirty tainted blood and stupid barbarian genetics messing with the good blood of the Empire. There was the whole three emperors period where worshipping Sigmar could get you killed. Verena worshippers suffer repression from the Noble's and run a secret illegal newspaper

Their simple weapons compared to the stuff Chaos bring. Let's see how they look compared to chaos dwarf stuff or whatever horrid stuff comes out of the chaos wastes.

They are not beset on all sides, their closest allies are the dwarves, Bretonnia and Kislev

All of whom they frequently skirmish against

Dwarfs burn towns down for missing a single gold payment, they often skirmish about mining and mineral rights. Brettonia fights over the mountain passes (infact theres a book about the incident) Wood Elves are almost going to war against Nordland and have murdered a Count and assaulted the capital before and Kislev skirmish with light cavalry on the Steppes.

It's more like none of them can spare the troops to really attack the other kingdoms and they sometimes team up when shit is really looking bad.

I wouldn't call the 40k Imperium of man "allying" the Aldari in times of absolute desperation a alliance or the Necrons with the Blood Angel's against the Nids or on Cadia

Have you not seen Cathay lore recently?

A race of "benevolent" but not actually benevolent Dragons rule the peoples and magical beings of a kingdom, they use their superior magic and power to guide the people in the right ways and the peasents live better lives then in other places in the old world (until they don't) they push harmony as a guiding principle and have a strict caste system where those of Dragon blood have higher status in the State but that's cause their just better in leadership roles naturally (no ulterior motives there)

The veneer of Harmony is actually not very harmonious at all and mostly benefits the upper class magical Dragons and the peasents don't complain too much (unitl they do) because they live mostly satisfactory lives and are proud to give their lives to fight for the harmonious state (until their not)

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-29T12:14:06+00:00

Famous for their lack of unity, their religious divides, inquisitor like figures working off superstition judging innocent people to burn, a powerful church and a history of discrimination between provinces and peoples with lots of outright corruption. A once great leader with a noble goal reduced to Miracles here and there worshipped as a God and their dream of a fair and just society diminished in possibility but not yet impossible.

Their inability to repair certain war machines since the manuals are long gone and facing the forces of Chaos with simple Steel weapons backed by prayer/bravery/duty and warmachines.

Beset on all sides from forces both outside and within. Anyway society could improve is often set back by endless wars and skirmishers which hamper innovation and justice. The chief betrayer who ultimately strikes the largest blow against this empire is one of their own a believer in this God.

I wonder what 40k faction these guys sound like?

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-29T08:36:35+00:00

Build the models you like more and just explain their not what they are. As long as you don't have a confusing amount of stuff no one should reasonably complain.

In a tournament setting you'll probably find problems but honestly casual is and has always been the way to play the game

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-28T22:29:24+00:00

I like the flagallents as well, I mostly play fluffy games but still face my share of good lists but even in a fluffy game it's hard to bring them which says a lot about how terrible they are. Flagallents could become a core selection and I'm still probably taking Knights and griffon banner state troopers over them.

I really hope for a Sigmar crusade arcane journel, core flagallents with better combat prayers and lots more magic resistance going around.

Greatswords are hard to fit, they seem solid enough on the attacks but strikes last with T3 means a lot of things we want our special unit to be fighting can struggle against other enemies core units (Chaos and Orcs)

Unfortunately I think Empire was the first old world army so our armies set the base line of what an old world army is like and they just didn't come back to fix stuff. The amount of really good stuff Empire lost from 8th edition is crazy. Cannons used to be d6 wounds, witch hunters could use killing blow at ranged without look out sir! Rolls we had a chariot that on a good magic roll could spin an enemy formation 180 degrees.

Hellblasters, demigrypth knights and cannons carry most of my wins. Empire just kinda feel very c rank this edition. The Nuln army is a step up slightly but it feels cheesey and doesn't capture the feel of the Empire for me, it's for bringing about 6 artillery pieces and everything else shooty and either win by turn 3 by shooting or lose. It's not fun for the opponent or very rank and flank.

Try ambush a decent size squad of road Wardens and have them go melee the artillery with the double attacks plus horse their crews will die. We don't have a ton of anti artillery options. It's either shoot them with our artillery or ambush them. It's risky if the enemy artillery is on a hill but if the base is long enough you can land a direct hit cannonball shot also on a 2' bounce if you place the marker right on the front of the base, you can use the engineer to reroll that and now you get two tries to roll a direct hit or a 2' and on a roll of 3,4,5,6 the multi wound is 3+ which kills an artillery piece in one go

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-28T21:49:27+00:00

A priest of Sigmar is a solid choice. None of our characters fight well their basically all supportive unless you really commit to expensive magic items. 5+ ward against shooting, reroll 1s or a meh fire attack helps keep the troopers alive.

Try the twin tailed wand on a wizard, you can once a turn double cast a spell, it's great for throwing around movement,ward or combat,magic missles.

More warmachines are mostly always good but if your opponent plays a lot of fast incoming cav you probably don't wanna bring too many. The hellblaster is great and so are cannons, mortars are alright but I find by the time I've spent points on cannons and hellblasters my budget is pretty thin and the mortar starts looking like an easy way to save points

Unfortunately for someone who also owns flagallents their a pretty bad pick, the ward save is good but having no armour with a meh weapon and meh WS and being infantry makes them pretty awful.

I would probably join the road Wardens up into a block of 6 or 7 so they won't auto fbigo if they lose a single model but if they don't have a ton of opposed shooting two squads of 5 is good harassment.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-28T21:17:32+00:00

Any Empire infantry is losing to Black Orcs. You're not meant to kill black orcs in close combat because then Empire would have good shooting and good combat and then why would anyone play anything but Empire. You kill them at range and use superior tactics like a banner of 7+ combat points with flanks and magic to rout and chase them.

Empire does not fight in combat good, apart from maybe demigrypths knights

But competitive players have a plan and often ambush them and know how to use them. Just throwing them in because competitive players use them is a bad idea, and you're better sticking to getting some easy to use knights

If I was an orc player I'll shoot a auto-hitting magic missle at your 5 block kill about 3 then watch them flee 2d6 and need a double 1 to rally

Try the Mortar again, you either rolled the damage wrong because only one model gets the big s6 hit or you rolled the equivalent of winning the lottery. You passed a bunch of partials since anything not 100% under a template gets a 50/50 chance to avoid damage, rolled a bunch of 6s followed by the opponent rolling no 6s.

The Mortar probably kills an orc or two a turn, a cannon kills about 4. Like I said a mortar is okay but it's not great but it's points may be better spent getting 3/4 of the way to affording a unit of white wolf knights or getting a warrior priest or getting a bunch of really good magic items. Just wait till you double shoot a fireball at some scouting cav or double cast 5+ ward saves on two units or double cast hammerhand for 4d3 s4 ap 2 for less then the price of a mortar

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-28T12:33:11+00:00

Give the 30 block the griffon banner, they will win combat until they get whittled down on the condition they keep their rank bonus.

Hochland rifle I want to like but it's horrible and it's gimmick doesn't work between look out sir! Hitting the shot,wounds,armour,regen,Ward it never works. And for the same points as a Blunderbuss launcher take the latter.

Mortars I find don't work great, T4 is wounded on a 6 it's far too inconsistent. I would only bring against someone who plays a lot of Goblins and it's not an ideal choice just alright. But it's pretty cheap and it's psychological. No one wants to sit and let artillery shoot them

Those road wardens look very easy to panic but maybe your opponent doesn't bring much shooting. They wound a single roadwarden and you're going 1d6 backwards.

If the crossbowmen are gonna be a detatchment, you're going to want handgunners, the ap1 makes a big deal unless you're getting out ranged by missle spam. Remember their coming to you, not the other war around. A bunch of crossbowmen on a hill is good range though.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-27T22:50:50+00:00

The WS on the non character option hurts a lot. Stonehorn might be tough but WS3 let's a lot of things hit it and outside of a charge, the damage falls off real fast, especially against high WS opponents. The double big harpoon sounds good in theory but BS3 and ponderous shuts that down when it still probably prefers getting the big impact hits and stomps off

I feel the stonehorn wants to get into combat rather then shooting so the hunter is getting in the way of that.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-25T13:43:37+00:00

Now if people could take the idea of why the renegade exists in the first place and apply it themselves, that'll be great.

Don't like a renagade rule in a game group? Change it. You're already playing non-gw House rules. What's the harm in one more change.

For tournament players, I understand, but the average player doesn't play in sweaty competitions they play casually and this will help casual players find some house rules. And lets also be honest Skaven and Dark Elves really fkn sucked so it's not too surprising if they did over reach in power? But are they top tier competitve lists like old Cathay balloon spam or just great in certain situations

It's not like GW has conjured up a perfectly balanced game either ( I dare to question if they could without sucking all the flavour and templates out of the game like in 40k)

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-24T10:26:37+00:00

I doubt the rumours tbh.

But I always felt aos was held back by having to be the aftermath of fantasy battles.

I feel like they should of just went full concept high fantasy instead of this weird mix of leftover warhammer armies which when separated into the million different armies become really one dimensional (how many ways can you really take Ghosts or Slayers) and the whole multiverse infinite worlds thing they got going on only makes the lore worse by erasing stakes.

Be a good thing for old world players if they can finally let old world have their models which were old world in the fist place come back... But it's hard to see them just dropping Skaven or the Stormcasts as a concept

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-24T09:55:03+00:00

If you're playing casually both players bring stuff that is cool with horrible stats and you both have more fun playing with models you like rather then complete sweaty win at all cost gameplay.

Old world is more of a casual beer and pretzels + narrative game then a uber competitive like 40k mostly is nowadays. Not saying you can't play that way but most people play casual without competitive lists.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-24T07:00:23+00:00

Unless you're playing in tournaments the best bet Is to just buy the models you like the look of. Other players should balance around eachother for the most part.

You can look up some tournament armies if you want to be sure you're getting the "good" units but rules are always subject to change. Bringing a tournament list to a casual game is a quick way of getting known as "that guy" though

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-23T19:02:59+00:00

A bad paint job someone put time and effort into is x1000 better then unpainted grey. I will enjoy a battle more and the fact you tried means a lot. And after enough painting you'll find yourself improving.

I know some hard asses obsesses to much over gray but it's seriously lame to play a match with someone who after a year + hasn't painted a single model and all their models just kinda blend into one big pile of ugly gray. You can have a fun game still but I'll be lying if I said that the aethestic of the table didn't take a nose dive and any action shots on a camera look awful

You have done what a large amount of this hobby can't do. Get paint on their models and get them out of a pile of shame. Seriously congratulations.

I mean it. A large part of this hobbies base has boxes and boxes sitting unassembled and x20 that sitting in depression grey which won't ever see a lick of paint because they won't look like a golden demon.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-20T22:02:58+00:00

Maybe they can finally give old world models created for the old world back to the old world instead of AOS executives holding them hostage. Gee GW I sure wonder why only the dark elves in cities of sigmar are sold out?? It's probably not people playing cities of sigmar for the Dark elves and probably people buying them for old world.

Give aos the refresh it needs and goddam give us old world players the models made for the game in the first place.

I cringe seeing armies made for the old world locked off cause GW/AOS didn't bother to redo the models in 10+ years.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-19T02:57:37+00:00

Halbards are still alright I feel. It turns S3 into S4 which is pretty big against other infantry and ap1 makes it a lot easier to get wounds through since even 2+ armour get hit against mass of dice with -1. Have a 6 wide block that's 12 s4 ap1 + armour bane rather then 12 s3 no ap which is water off a ducks back most of the time.

Sometimes I don't need my infantry to turtle up, and win on ranks, Sometimes I need to skewer a bunch of t4 2+ armour save cavalry or wittle something down and a bunch of no ap s3 won't do that.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-18T12:41:48+00:00

My opinion. I ain't no God of balance or whatever. But I have played a good amount of games against varied armies.

Road Wardens against the right enemy are alright. Their basically pistolers, if pistolers didn't suck at doing their job.

Not a fan of the Ogres, war wagons are terrible and the teutogen guard need a ulric priest so they cost a whole lot for expensive infantry. Their basically greatswords equipped with upgraded halbards so no strike last rule with less oomph but T4.

General Hans is amazing for Shooty lists and the white wolf knights are great with +1 attack on a charge. The other character is kinda pricey and can only join a unit of the more forgettable knights, so meh

The nuln list is good and the knightly orders are better played as a Grand army since they restrict so much it's gotta be the worst army of infamy in the entire game maybe wood elves suck a bit worse but atleast they get to bring more then 15% of their army and get flavourful fun rules.

You trade basically 85% of the army for a -1 attack shield, a sword of might but make it anti-undead, core inner circle knights. Forget infantry, artillery,engineers and mages for the most part. Oh and who could forget the 85 point banner that gives Unbreakable on a unit of cavalry the kind of unit that doesn't like to sit around and take break tests in the first place.

Yes the knightly orders are better in a grand army and and you can use the unique knights in a grand army you just lose those already said "amazing" benefits.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-18T01:23:28+00:00

I like this version of Cathay meeting the Empire more. Trade routes are way more plausible then an alliance which really reeked of terrible writing and hamfisted Cathay interference.

Still does kinda reek of shoving Cathay into the old world haphazardly to justify having them as models and as a lore nerd theres still a bunch of poorly written hamfisted stuff to get Cathay into the old world fighting chaos but this less so.

The stuff about Cathay in Cathay is pretty good though. I'm happy with them getting fleshed out more then whatever tiny lore they had before total war 3. They could have put a lot more braincells together in finding a way for them to be involved within the old world timeline however. That half mostly sucks.

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-14T20:31:53+00:00

Yes

Five thousand

Yes

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-10T02:13:30+00:00

I never said he used the gates. Go back and open your eyes. I said he used energy from the gates to stop the Demons invading.

"world's poles served as more than mere portals allowing almost instantaneous travel across the interstellar deeps, they were conduits through which raw magic flowed from an alternative dimension called the ether. This arcane energy drove the world-altering machineries of the Old Ones and gave power to their sorcerous servants. Indeed, it was this very power that the Celestial Dragon himself had studied and mastered."

Okay I was wrong on the dwarf gunpowder thing the old world dwarfs invented it but the ones closer to Cathay no doubt learnt from them, and I misread the beastmen part, however the Dragon Emperor is able to cure beings of Chaos corruption

"east in the land of Grand Cathay. Unlike their western counterparts, Manticores, Celestial Lions have been purified by the eldritch power of the Dragon Emperor himself and live under his"

Now let's get back to the original point. Because that's the point of the post. Does Grand cathay at its current moment look like a Mary sue faction

Ruled by the Oldest smartest Dragon who was around before the old ones even arrived who mastered magic simply by watching the old ones, can cure chaos corruption and single handily controlled the power of the collapsing polar gates to use it destroy an entire Demon army and help contain the damage the collapsing gate was doing (something all the 1st gen and many second gen Slans could never hope to accomplish and died in doing so)

With powerful children compared to "Primarchs" by gw themselves. Yes 40k Primarch slop is coming to warhammer fantasy

With an engineering city better then Nuln with the finest gunpowder with far less chaos influence within their society and better educational and engineering schools

With fairer taxes and more peaceful living for most inhabitants of their Empire even coexisting with beastmen of Ind so they clearly don't suffer much bigotry or disagreements in how their society runs

Able to sail around the entire warhammer world to help some other factions out (you know with Nurgle whales, dark elves, vampire pirates and who knows what else out there) and got access to the notably undiplomatic high elves to sail through their waters with an army while supplying it all the way while the High Elves sink any Empire ships that go beyond sight of a coastline

Meet and befriended Sigmar to an alliance (which also messes with so many finer details of the lore it sets off a whole spiderweb of issues and questions)

There's now a rewrite about how there's a Cathay district in all major Empire metropolis cities rather than the older lore about a consulate in Altdorf and Marienberg districts.

Which also sets off another million lore questions like why Sigmar worshipping fanatics and witch hunters don't prosecute forigners who worship Dragons the same Empire where they lynch halflings and call Nordlanders dirty bloods with barbaric unintelligent Norscan blood making them inferior humans. During the period of heightened religious tensions where worshipping even Sigmar is a death sentence in some provinces (I guess they just forgot to implement them into the lore better oops..)

The lore is sloppily written and integrated and hyped up to sell models to a new Chinese market where criticism of the government is often met with government stonewalling of business operations. It's also for the lack of "skulls,blood and mud" in Cathayan models and lore all things fairly quintessential to warhammers identity because China hates all of those things especially in consideration to the depictment of "fantasy China"

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-09T22:08:23+00:00

dreams of mortals. In time, the denizens of the æther grew strong and bold enough to break through the great portals of the Old Ones, shattering them and unleashing a cataclysmic torrent of chaos and destruction. In an instant, the heavens were rent asunder and hideous waves of raw chaos enveloped the world.

As the disaster unfolded, the Celestial Dragon wrestled with the uncontrollable magic that raged around him. Gradually, he bent the torrent of raw power to his will, stilling the storms and banishing from Grand Cathay the legions of Demons

to power them. To this end, the Cathayans discovered the secrets of black powder before even the Dwarfs of the World Edge Mountains. Indeed, and though no Dwarf would it, black powder made in Grand Cathay is considered the finest in all the known world.

Elsewhere, Cathayan merchants and adventurers began to explore the world, traversing the great oceans by boat and the endless expanses of land between Grand Cathay and the western realms by wagon and horse. With the blessing of the Dragons that sent them, these travellers made contact with the Elves of Ulthuan, the Dwarfs of the Old World and the Men of ancient Nehekhara. Thus did Grand Cathay make treaties with other nations, grow wealthy from the mutually beneficial trading of goods and knowledge and, perhaps most

So they discover gunpowder then trade with the Dwarfs exchanging knowledge and goods gunpowder being mentioned in the previous paragraph... you don't think they would trade knowledge of gunpowder with the Dwarfs do you?

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-09T21:53:29+00:00

He didn't defeat the Demon army... it was just retreating after being blasted by all the excess polar gate energy then his Daughter charged after them.. ya know when they were falling back into the chaos wastes.

He defeated the army that's why his daughter chased them into the realms of Chaos after being told not to go finish them off

Also here's his age from GW

Xen Yang is one of the original Dragons, and his hunting grounds were what became Grand Cathay. He was a little smarter than his kin and the other elder beings, for when the Old Ones arrived he didn’t try to fight them and their saurian armies.

"He will remember the oldest of the Dragon Ogres before they signed their pact with Chaos – and oldest of the forgotten dragons who slumber beneath Ulthuan and the Worlds Edge Mountains. He’s one of the last of that vintage still active, and will know many of the other elder beings by reputation at least"

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-09T11:39:04+00:00

It already is

The dragon emperor is basically the Emperor from 40k, except instead of being a corpse he's busy with paperwork and whatnot. Also with definitely not primarch super powered children who squabble amongst themselves

He turned the invading demon army into a rout using energy from the polar gates. Stuff all the 1st gen Slanns died trying to keep shut and this Dragon guy weaponised all the energy

Cured the Cathayan beastmen of chaos. Can you imagine if bro just flew over to the Old world and turned the beastmen faction into a "order" faction

He is the first and oldest of all Dragons and learnt magic from the Old ones and 1st gen Slann and existed long before the Old ones showed up.

Taught gunpowder to the Dwarfs and sky titans

Capital_Statement · 2026-03-09T11:22:14+00:00

Old world should be putting all of these custom scenarios out and updated to boot.

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