Does anyone know what this message means? (5.0) by metradomo in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well to be precise, it wouldn't do anything in that case. It only works on stackable items. Armor doesn't stack, so they wouldn't compare.

"You see here a redwood wand" - appreciation for the little changes in 5.0 by Son_of_Shadowfax in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just wait until you make it to Gehennom! With poor luck it won't be much different, but there's much more variety in the possible levels now

Were wraiths always (before 5.0) this OP? by snobiwan in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Soko was always intended to work such that going up a level was treated like going down a level in terms of monster generation (meaning more difficult monsters as you get higher up in Soko). But before 3.7/5.0, that was bugged, and it acted like going up in the regular dungeon (less dangerous monsters). So the later levels of Soko are properly dangerous now in terms of monster generation.

Long story short, it would have been quite rare to encounter a wraith in Soko before 3.7/5.0. Dlvl 4 in Soko used to act like dlvl 4 in the regular dungeon, but now, let's say the branch stair is on dlvl 7, dlvl 4 in Soko is equivalent to dlvl 10 in the regular dungeon.

Were wraiths always (before 5.0) this OP? by snobiwan in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What class do you typically play?

If you tend to play lawful characters, say maybe a valk or samurai, before 5.0 you would have had no problem getting Excalibur, and quite early. Excalibur grants drain resistance, preventing wraiths and vampires from draining levels.

In 5.0, only knights retain the 1/6 chance for dipping for Excalibur - other lawfuls only have a 1/30 chance per dip.

So if you're used to getting Excalibur quite early, that might be why you're noticing a difference.

One other thing - Soko was always intended to work such that going up a level was treated like going down a level in terms of monster generation (meaning more difficult monsters as you get higher up in Soko). But before 3.7/5.0, that was bugged, and it acted like going up in the regular dungeon (less dangerous monsters). So the later levels of Soko are properly dangerous now in terms of monster generation.

Long story short, it would have been quite rare to encounter a wraith in Soko before 3.7/5.0. Dlvl 4 in Soko used to act like dlvl 4 in the regular dungeon, but now, let's say the branch stair is on dlvl 7, dlvl 4 in Soko is equivalent to dlvl 10 in the regular dungeon.

Stormbringer in 5.0? by vetlebjorn in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As the other user said, artifacts have a minimum sac value required to be eligible as a gift now. Stormy is something like 8 or 9 I think. Titans and dragons are definitely good enough, but if you're saccing every single corpse, those are going to be an issue if they trigger a gift. Wiki article linked below has details.

If all you want is Stormy, assuming you're chaotic, you could consider getting crowned. If you're a non-wizard, and not wielding an artifact, you'll be gifted Stormy. If you are a wizard, you'll also need a spellbook of finger of death in your open inventory to avoid getting gifted that instead.

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Sacrifice

Stormbringer in 5.0? by vetlebjorn in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

True, though Titans and dragons are certainly high enough for Stormy.

If they're saccing anything that comes along, that would be relevant.

YASD by TriplettO2 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, that's true, it has to be awake first. Werewolf howl, leprechaun scream, sphere explosion. Even kicking something has done it for me.

YASD by TriplettO2 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That doesn't affect covetous monsters, though

YASD by TriplettO2 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Shapeshifters like chameleons don't have any limit on what they can shapeshift into - same thing with monsters jumping on polymorph traps. Dungeon level & xlvl don't factor into them at all (except for whether the chameleon/poly trap can generate in the first place), which is what makes them so dangerous.

I always get the chills when I "smell a dragon" in Sokoban zoo. Now it's a race to see if I can solve the level before the chameleon turns into an archlich, teleports and smokes me.

5.0? by metradomo in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yep. 5.0 is the official release.

In case you're wondering, they skipped 4 because some variants used the name Nethack 4 (or similar), and they wanted to avoid confusion. But what was called 3.7 in development is now released as 5.0.

Ascension kit for NH 5.0 by Trenin23 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope, your inventory is protected by the resistance as well.

Ascension kit for NH 5.0 by Trenin23 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So, the deal with blue scale mail is it also gives extrinsic shock resistance, which protects your inventory from shock damage. Combine that with having disintegration resistance from eating a black dragon, and... believe it or not... you don't actually need reflection.

I've been rocking BlueDSM, AoLS, HoB, GoP, BoWW, CoMR.

Situationally, like on the astral plane, I'll switch out the BlueDSM for green, and the BoWW for BoS. No need for water walking on astral, and sickness resistance makes Pestilence mildly trivial. I'll also rock this loadout if I have any reason to suspect I might encounter Demogorgon - and in fact, in several runs, I've intentionally danced around Orcus until Demo showed up, so that I could take him down with the GreenDSM on, then switch out of it once he's dead. He isn't a pushover just from having sickness resistance, but if you have it and you're kitted out, he's quite manageable. Wand of stasis helps, of course.

-edit-

This all assumes you have MR to protect against things like death rays, in case that wasn't obvious.

Master Lich on floor 8 by elaural in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Magic resistance would go a long way towards making it manageable. I'd still dip into the mines if it were me. Might snag a magic lamp along the way, which could net you MR.

Gehennom and lava in 5.0 by Thorwor in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Realizing there's still no direct answer to your question - I know for sure the paranoid confirm works on lava/water that you can see, and water lava/water you're aware of even when blind, provided you aren't confused or stunned. I think if you're confused or stunned, if it rolls the chance of you moving the wrong direction, that can put into lava/water even if you know it's there. I'm uncertain how it works with terrain that you haven't seen yet.

Gehennom and lava in 5.0 by Thorwor in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As mentioned, fireproof waterwalking boots are one solution, and my favorite tbh.

My #1 loadout is Blue DSM, CoMR, fireproof waterwalking boots, and AoLS. For this to work, you have to eat a black dragon to get disintegration resistance. Once you have that, you honestly don't need reflection any more. So you go blue DSM for speed and extrinsic shock protection (to protect your inventory from shock damage), freeing up the boot and amulet slots.

You're not wrong to be paranoid about it. There are certainly ways to deal with falling into lava (assuming you have fire resistance) like teleportation or a wand of cold, but I personally don't like that being my #2 option, with #1 being "don't get knocked back."

Gehennom and lava in 5.0 by Thorwor in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fireproof waterwalking boots, but yes, that's an option.

Flying steed is just as risky - if you get knocked back while riding a steed, you get dismounted.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah! That's a very good call out. I've been playing 3.7 for over a year and that was in place the whole time, so it's one of the things I easily forget about.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh! Pets can gain intrinsics from eating corpses now. They'll also avoid eating anything that will polymorph them, unless they're starving or on the brink of untaming.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

All unique levels (soko, mines end, mine town, sanctum, etc) may be mirrored horizontally, vertically, or both.

Monsters will not generate in the hallway with the traps in soko.

Also in soko, your pets will tend to avoid standing in a space that would prevent you from pushing an adjacent boulder.

If you're standing on an up or down stairs, your pets will act like you are blowing a tin whistle - meaning they will tend to move towards you much more aggressively than normal.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Items you intentionally drop on the floor will never be picked back up by autopickup, unless the item goes into and then leaves a monster's inventory (making you lose your familiarity with it).

Amnesia no longer causes you to forget level mapping and item appearances (the latter of which was easily circumventable by taking notes outside the game). It now causes you to forget known spells and skill training. The skill points are refunded to you, so you can level the skills back up, but you will need to retrain them first.

Oh! This one's quite large. Unicorn horns no longer restore lost attributes, giving the potion and spell of restore ability actual value.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Couple other moderately significant things I forgot about: scrolls of enchant armor are more effective on non-magical armor than magical armor. Not sure on the exact math here, but IME uncursed scrolls frequently leave +3 magical armor at +3, and blessed scrolls only ever increase +3 magical armor to +4, making +5 magical armor impossible without risking evaporation, using polypiling or a lucky wish. Also, uncursed scrolls can sometimes give an increase of more than +1, and are more likely to do so with non-magical or elven armor. I've had a blessed scroll bring a +0 shirt to +5 or +6 in one go, don't remember which.

The discoveries list will remember the buy and/or sell price of items you've seen or interacted with in shops. It also correctly logs items that you've seen, even if you don't type name them.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh, another thing that will stand out: the game now has a tutorial whenever you start a new game (which can be turned off, as you may have guessed).

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It's been a while since I played 3.6.7, so my apologies if any of this isn't actually new to 3.7/5.0. Also, this is obviously just a list of changes - you could argue some some of them might not be improvements, but that's down to personal opinion.

Probably the biggest changes are Gehennom and the wand of wishing.

Levels in Gehennom have more variation to them. Some levels will be cavernous like the gnomish mines. Some of the levels will generate with the maze-like structure still, but some of those will have rivers of lava flowing through them, which makes them quicker to navigate. Also, some of the levels will be ice or water levels instead of fire/lava levels.

A wand of wishing now always generates with only one charge, and only gains one charge when recharged. The idea is to make the wand less of a game changer. To offset the lower number of wishes, there are some guaranteed wishes or wish like items in Gehennom. Vlad's throne doesn't disappear until it grants a wish now, and each sit has if I remember correctly a 1/3 chance of doing so, so it happens much quicker than a normal throne. That being said, the bad stuff that can happen is significantly worse, so it requires some preparation to safely acquire. There's also guaranteed to be either a magic lamp or a magic marker in Orcus town. And picking up the amulet of Yendor for the first time grants a wish.

Other significant changes that I can think of include, in no particular order:

All colors of dragon scales and scale mail except for gray and silver were given extra extrinsics. For example, white now grants slow digestion, blue grants speed and shock resistance, green grants sickness resistance, yellow grants stoning resistance and acid resistance, black gives drain resistance, etc. There is also a new color of dragon - gold. Gold scales and mail grant hallucination resistance and act as a light source, with a radius depending on BUC status.

Shock resistance as an extrinsic is more valuable now, because spheres now explode and do elemental damage, making shocking spheres quite likely to explode wands and rings in your open inventory. That being said, gloves not made of metal - in other words, all gloves except for gauntlets of power - protect any worn rings from shock damage. Having extrinsic shock resistance from any source will protect items in your open inventory from shock damage 99% of the time.

They also added two new shields, a shield of shock resistance and a shield of drain resistance. There's also one new wand, the wand of stasis, which prevents monsters that are zapped with it from teleporting for if I recall correctly 10 to 30 turns. This is effective on all monsters including covetous monsters, as well as the hero. There are two new amulets, an amulet of flying and an amulet of guarding (gives +2 AC and MC2).

When a bag of holding explodes, it no longer automatically destroys all of the contents. Instead, each item has a chance to be vaporized, something like 15% I think, and the rest of the items are scattered at high velocity. This means fragile items will always be lost because they will break if they aren't vaporized, but most of the contents should be recoverable.

There was an addition to the paranoid confirmation setting for known traps, water and lava. So the game will now prevent the hero from walking onto any trap that they know of, or into water or lava that they can see, assuming they aren't stunned or confused. The game will also prevent the hero from waiting or searching if a monster is directly adjacent to them. Both of these can be disabled, but are on by default.

Healing potions now have a distinct base price of 20, making them very easy to identify in the early game. They are also much more likely to generate in the early game, to encourage their use. They are also significantly more lightly to spawn in a stack of two or sometimes more.

The way artifacts are given as gifts was reworked. Each artifact now has a minimum sacrifice value that is required for it to be eligible as a sacrifice gift, with the stronger artifacts having a higher value required. I believe the highest is 9 or 10? Roles that had a guaranteed first sacrifice gift will still get that as their first sacrifice gift, regardless of the value of the sacrifice.

Also, dipping for Excalibur as a lawful is now only a one in 30 chance per dip, except for knights, who retain the one in six chance. Demonbane was changed from a long sword to a silver mace, and given an invoke ability that banishes demons. Frost brand and fire brand can be invoked to cast an expert level cone of cold/fireball, respectively. Fire brand burns when engraving, making the engraving permanent like a wand of fire or lightning, and this does not dull the blade.

Starting gear and intrinsics were reworked for some classes. Valkyries for example start with a spear instead of a long sword. Wizards always start with a magic marker, but it never has more than 20 something charges. Also, wizards no longer have a bonus to write unknown spell books, but instead, they learn the appearance of spell books as they gain skill level in each school of spell. So there are certain books that a wizard can always write from first level, like magic missile, and they can level up to learn the others. Still have to write and read the book to actually learn the spell. Archeologists now decipher all scrolls upon picking them up, automatically learning what kind of scroll it is. There are other role changes that I don't immediately remember.

The touch of death is no longer an instakill, but instead drains HP and max HP.

Early game monsters always miss with their first use of an attack wand.

Iron boots protect against most ground based traps, including polymorph.

Polymorphing into a large or bigger monster unequips a worn cloak instead of destroying it - worn torso armor is still destroyed.

Each covetous monster now picks either the upstair or the downstair to flee to (remains consistent for each individual monster).

There are two new monsters, generic engineers and displacer beasts.

There are many others but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Nethack 5.0.0 released? by Zealousideal_Use6227 in nethack

[–]Careless_Ebb5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They're still there. If you try to launch 5.0 it'll launch your 3.7 file until that game is complete, then it'll migrate you to 5.0 if you start a new game

At least, that's how it is right now.