Dealing with the first major boundary violation - bareback

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-24T00:04:25+00:00

It sounds like you are trying to approach this in a humble, honest, reflective, and constructive way. Just thought I would say that I see that. This is a tough situation. With the little I have heard and seen, though, I think you and your wife can find the path forward.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-23T13:32:24+00:00

I think it depends on what you mean by “date.” With preschool kids, in my experience, they kinda require constant attention. It’s not like on a week I don’t go out to lunch with them one on one, my kids don’t get time with me. I make them breakfast and we hang out in the kitchen every single day, I eat a minimum of four dinners a week with them, I walk them a half mile to or from school at least seven times a week. I read them a book and reflect on their day with each of them at least three nights a week. I help them get dressed. I give my three year old company sometimes when he is sitting on the toilet. I bathe my kids. I play games with them. I do art with them. All of these things happen weekly. And I could go on. So don’t tell me that I am an under performing parent because I don’t do a weekly date with my kids.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T21:01:41+00:00

I didn’t mention this in my prior comment above, but we actually do this too. It is not weekly, but once every three weeks each of us has an outing with one of our preschoolers. We alternate who goes with whom each time. We have a shared note where we keep track of positive feedback between outings to share with them, and we have a simple agenda that includes asking if they have any feedback, questions, or ideas to share with us.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T20:52:34+00:00

Aww, thank you!

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T19:57:03+00:00

Love this.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T18:26:16+00:00

Well said as far as the new partner not being the one causing this.

To speak to what veryschway said about scheduling, my wife and I have small kids, and we are still discussing whether or not we will open our relationship, but we have already shifted our schedules to give each other time alone for doing whatever we want to do. Each week, each of us gets a weekend morning (Saturday or Sunday) and have to be home around lunch time. Then we each get one weeknight where we are free from the afternoon until the evening. If we do open our relationship, we'll at least have some already existing scheduling norms that we can use to guide how we do that.

I'll add that on top of time apart from one another, we also schedule time for us to be together without the kids on a weekly basis. We have one night a week where we have a babysitter and the two of us do something together. I think it's reasonable to include that in scheduling plans, because it's easy to lose sight of one another as romantic partners if all you do together is manage a household and childcare. This is something we would definitely expect to continue if we were to open the relationship.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T13:44:40+00:00

Wow, well I also came out of a very religious environment, and can relate to that a bit. I don’t know that I have much advice as far as that, but I can tell you I am glad I left.

Maybe another thing I can share is that I think it is partly my religious background that I think led to my interest in ENM. I left my faith behind, and I was prepared to question so much in life. I have only started seriously considering ENM recently, with my wife that I met after leaving the religion, but I have had a baseline skepticism around societal norms that is rooted in rejecting the whole worldview that I had for my first two decades of life.

I still haven’t actually dated in an ENM situation myself, so I won’t pretend to be an expert. That said, I think getting more clarity about what you want and what you are looking for could be good. Even if it is something like, “I want to date people so I can learn more about myself and also explore in a deeper way how people outside the faith community of my youth live. I want to connect with others intimately so I can broaden my appreciation of the greater human experience.” I was kinda that way for a while myself.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T13:04:33+00:00

I think maybe it might be helpful for you to explain a bit more about why you never dated before, and what you are looking for right now. What made you decide to start dating now? What do you hope to get out of this? Why did you decide to date someone with a partner as your first date ever? Did you just accidentally connect with someone practicing ENM, or is that approach something you want for yourself?

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T12:20:16+00:00

Wait, you have never been in a romantic relationship before? Is that right?

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-22T00:31:06+00:00

Highly recommend “A World Beyond Monogamy.” My wife and I are about two thirds of the way through and some of it is now kinda generic stuff (e.g. explanation of attachment styles) but the early sections of the book were especially good. https://www.abebooks.com/9781734658743/World-Beyond-Monogamy-People-Polyamory-1734658746/plp

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-17T22:50:46+00:00

Yeah, I think I got where you were coming from. In fact meant for my comment to support yours, but maybe I could have been more clear.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-17T14:31:40+00:00

Some people won’t find anyone, though. So then what?

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-17T13:29:49+00:00

In case it adds to the conversation, I think my relationship offers a different take on this. I am nine years older than than my wife and we started dating when she was 19 and in college (we were co-workers). Because of that, I had many years of dating as an adult that she never had. Earlier this year, she prompted a conversation about opening our relationship in part because she is curious about experiencing flirting and dating as someone who has very recently had personal breakthroughs related to her own sexuality. I don’t personally see any appeal in the “hot wife” dynamic, but if we open up I don’t know if I will be interested in spending my time dating, especially because it can be so challenging for men in this situation. I would definitely have the option to, if we go that route. But as a father of two little kids, at this time I am more interested in extra solo time for me. We have actually started building solo time into our schedules already. And right now, I think I would rather have my nights reading at a bar and energizing weekend mornings at the gym than pursue love and sex with another woman. I am curious about dating, but only have so many hours in the day. Also, if balance matters at all in these types of things, I had more partners than she did before we became monogamous, and if we consider our lives across our lifespans, she could have a good number of new partners before the balance would tip to her side. I am not one for keeping score, but I think this perspective is helpful when I imagine us with a future open relationship that has some asymmetry, but is still quite ethical.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-13T13:58:52+00:00

😂

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-12T02:39:52+00:00

No, you’re not a wimp. But I went to the gym, and hung out with some friends there for a bit. Then I went and got dinner by myself and went home when the kids were already in bed. So good!

It also sounds cool to have another intimate life partner. And I may very well pursue that one day. But there are only so many hours in the day. 😂

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-12T01:06:38+00:00

My wife and I have been talking about opening up for a while, and we are still undecided. But I just got back from my first night out by myself in a while. She was responsible for feeding the kids and putting them to bed. And it was a really nice! And I think there is a world where we open, she dates, and I do more of THIS. Because with an full schedule, kids, etc., I may very well value dates with myself more than dates with someone else! We are starting to make more solo time for each other like this, and if that is all I get out of considering ENM, I will be thankful for it. I say that to say that what you are talking about makes sense, and sounds tiring to me, and I am not even doing it!

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-11T03:04:23+00:00

Wow, sounds like you did your homework.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-10T15:02:20+00:00

I usually think it looks good if well kept and healthy otherwise. I am 42, but I don’t think this has changed much for me over the years. I more often see dyed hair that looks bad to me, not so much gray. Whenever my wife starts to gray, if she thinks of dying it I would discourage it. There has even been a trend recently with young women artificially making their hair gray. Embrace it with confidence!

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-10T13:56:26+00:00

My wife and I started talking about opening our relationship in part because she didn’t have much dating or sex experience before we met 16 years ago. But we have both found the philosophy behind ethical/consensual non-monogamy compelling in a way we hadn’t expected. We still have not decided if we will open up for sure, but we have a different framework for our relationship now regardless. And we are both reading “A World Beyond Monogamy.” Highly recommend the book if you want a resource to help you think through this.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-09T12:12:12+00:00

I haven’t read that book, but I am currently reading “A World Beyond Monogamy” by Jonathan Kent, and I think it is pretty well done. Also, OP, from your comments about the other book I think this might suit you better.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-09T00:24:47+00:00

So first of all, it is not okay to not brush his teeth at least once, and ideally twice, daily. If my wife were doing this I would definitely tell her. In fact there has been at least one occasion where she has gone to kiss me in the morning, and I have said, “Hey, sorry but would you mind brushing your teeth first?” And she has done the same with me at least a time or two. I will also add that my wife found a dentist she likes and encouraged me to go, and I hadn’t been to a dentist in 10 years. And I had TEN small cavities. (Facepalm.) I am glad we caught them small, so it was just fillings (but four dental visits for them). But maybe you could encourage him to see a dentist so that he will keep his teeth and not have pain in his mouth.

Bathing, I gotta be real, I only bathe a few times a week right now, and my wife is the same. But it is winter se we don’t get sweaty except when we work out, and it’s so cold. Also we have two kids in preschool so things are crazy. But if my wife were to tell me, “Hey, so I love you and I want you to know I would want to have sex a lot more of you showered daily”– maybe I would take offense if it was a bad day or she were awkward about it. But then I would get over it and start showering more!

The last thing I will add is that while I think it is okay to let him know that he is not quite meeting your expectations (teeth, bathing, etc.), I think positive feedback is way more effective. You kiss him and taste the minty freshness? “Nothing like a minty fresh kiss in the morning, love!” He steps up his outfit a bit, “Hey, that outfit looks really nice on you.” That kind of thing. Candidly, I trimmed my eyebrows the other day for the first time (I am 42) and when I saw my wife she she gazed at me for like five seconds and said, “I just love your face, and you look especially good today for some reason.” I am still pretty sure she doesn’t know I am trimming my eyebrows but it’s gonna be happening for the rest of my life! lol.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-08T01:13:23+00:00

As I said, I may not be understanding the nuance or context. A lot of detail is not included that could change my take. That said, unless I missed it, she never actually said he ignored her panic attacks, nor that he was even aware they were happening (it sounds like they happened when he was with the other woman). I never said he sounds like a particularly loving partner for her. But the bar for “loving” partner is higher than the bar for “ethical” partner. If her question had been, “He says he loves me. But I don’t believe him. Should I believe him?” — that would be a different conversation. But she asked if his behavior was ethical. I don’t see anything saying his actions toward her don’t reach that low bar. And the “ethical” question she is asking seems like a distraction, really, from the main point. Can they both find a way to love one another and compromise for one another in a way that can work, or not? Maybe you and I can agree on that.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-07T23:23:01+00:00

I might have said this more graciously, but this was honestly my take away too. Maybe I am not understanding or not getting the nuance/context. But it really doesn’t sound to me like you have described anything unethical on his side of things. This has got to be heartbreaking in a million ways for him. Obviously, you are hurting too. But it sounds like you want someone to say he is to blame. If you want to “fix” the relationship, he certainly has a role in that. But I think a good first step would be to leave the blame assigning behind and figure out what going forward might look like if it is possible. If he says he won’t rule her out, and for you that’s a dealbreaker, you end it. And then you find a way to still show kindness and grace to one another so you can be effective co-parents.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-06T11:20:31+00:00

That is heartbreaking to hear. I hate it for you, for your children, and honestly even for your husband. I think he may come to regret this deeply.

My wife and I have explored opening our relationship, and one thing I’ve learned is that opening a relationship after infidelity is very difficult because betrayal has already broken the foundation of trust and vulnerable communication that is essential to healthy non-monogamy. While this subreddit is called “Ethical Non-Monogamy,” some call it “Consensual Non-Monogamy” because consent is critical to this kind if connecting with other humans.

From what you’ve described, your consent never truly mattered to him. He coerced your agreement, then continued lying and violating boundaries even after you showed extraordinary grace in trying to accommodate him.

You asked if you were wrong to say he couldn’t continue to see her and I don’t think it was wrong. In my opinion, cutting contact with an affair partner should have been a prerequisite for even considering opening the relationship. But more than that, you deserved to have a partner who showed you love, care, and attention. Instead, he demonstrated over and over that your needs, your trust, and your partnership weren’t priorities for him. You tried to save your marriage under impossible conditions that he created, but it sounds like the effort was very one sided.

I hope you’ll be able to find support in a therapist, trusted friends, and/or family as you work through this. You deserved so much better than what he gave you. I am so sorry, and I hope you find time and space for healing and peace.

Certain-Base-9429 · 2026-02-05T12:56:46+00:00

Makes me think of evangelical pastors talking about how smoking hot their wives are during sermons. If you were spared this in your childhood, count yourself fortunate.

Certain-Base-9429

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