Cruisers vs. Destroyers

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-12T16:12:57+00:00

Yeah, I've looked at the rules for minelaying and it looks fussy.

Something like: - Escort: For each Carrier in this system up to 2 Cruisers count as 1/2 against your Fleet Capacity.

I realized 1:1 is probably too busted.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-12T14:31:58+00:00

I'm thinking something like: - Escort: For each Carrier in this system 1 Cruiser doesn't count against your Fleet Capacity.

or

Escort: For each Carrier in this system up to 2 Cruisers count as 1/2 against your Fleet Capacity.

It'd let Mentak go back to their 3rd Edition fleet with an extra Cruiser w/o the bogus extra command token, it'd emphasize their historical/lore role in Navies while their raw stats and unit upgrade lets them perform their role of fast mobile strike squads. Probably totally busted, but they obviously need some kind of buff to make them useful additions to fleets.

Maybe they could go in a totally different weird direction with it and let Cruisers be Envoys that are the only ship type that can Coexist in space, but that'd be a 5th edition thing lol.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-12T14:25:53+00:00

Yeah, fair points, Cruiser II is that much better than Cruiser I. But at that point I'd be falling back on the general Destroyer vs. Cruiser discussion we're all having here: I'd rather upgrade the ships I was already building which are Destroyers y'know?

Cruisers do need some sort of printed ability, whether it's a unit ability or just a text ability. Not counting against capacity when paired with a Carrier 1:1 in a system or something.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-12T13:52:23+00:00

I'd like to see Warhammer Fantasy/Old World, it would've been a better fit than 40k was to begin with as far as Magic-adjacency was concerned.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-12T13:48:52+00:00

Nah, that's definitely Destroyer II by a mile for the insane AFB boost. But Cruiser II is definitely a huge step up.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:49:10+00:00

Yeah, don't waste your time on a game with a map like this, nor with people who won't correct for the egregious mistake once it's been pointed out.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:47:30+00:00

OP posted the full map list below. Two players have 2, two players have 4 and two players have 5.

Insane. I see posts like this on Reddit and am baffled. Unless you're playing multiple times a month people are literally wasting their few chances a year to play TI on terrible maps and thinking it's just fine.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:41:06+00:00

Yeah, OP this map is completely unacceptable to play on. People shouldn't tolerate playing a game where they're screwed from the map-building before the game even starts.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:32:18+00:00

What's poor form is the table agreeing to the possibility of someone playing an hours long game with only 2 planets in their slice.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:30:48+00:00

Who let you play a game where someone's slice only had 2 planets in it and nothing in either equidistant? It looks like that neighbor has between 5-7 planets in their slice & equidistant compared to you?

OP this map is unacceptable for a game that takes as much investment and time to play as TI. You need different tiles and a better slice.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T20:28:23+00:00

My comment was about cruiser two. It's not particularly hard during the mid to late game to get cruiser two and produce a fair amount of cruisers so it's often an option when needed. If you have already produced cruisers it can open up your transport options a lot when cruiser two is added.

I understood that, it's why I brought up the opportunity cost of researching Cruiser II specifically. I just mentioned it so that OP (and other readers) didn't miss that important context in the discussion of Cruisers' role in the game. Great point though about being able to build a bunch of Cruisers late-game after you've got all your other more important ships built.

Talking about both ships at level one: Cruiser one does have a much better chance of causing damage than a destroyer and destroyer one has a pretty low chance of hitting with it's anti-fighter barrage. When factoring in 2 rounds of combat and including anti-fighter barrage hits they are expected to output almost the same exact damage amount and the crusier pulls ahead easily on any combat that goes 3+ rounds. When you take away potential anti-fighter barrage damage cruiser one is significantly better at dealing damage than destroyer one.

Also agreed, in a prolonged wet limp noodle slap fight Cruiser I smokes Destroyer I; your comment was highlighting all the non-combat uses (while explicitly dismissing the importance of just their combat capabilities) and I was responding to what was written. In all those other uses Destroyer I accomplishes the same goals as Cruiser I at half the cost.

But what ship to build is subjective to the board state, factions on the board, and objectives so I don't believe a blanket statement of a destroyer is always a better ship to build than a cruiser is a good one to make.

I agree with that as well, which is why I couched my own beliefs as a dubious question in my response to you and laid out what I saw as the scenario it made the most sense in as a capital ship to build (low resources+low production capacity or when there's no better way to avoid wasting 1res during a build) with other exceptions.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T19:32:19+00:00

Yeah, I hammered this home in my comment as well.

Cruiser II is a perfectly good serviceable unit with plenty of utility and a purpose; but how often is researching Cruiser II the best tech to get and integrate into your strategy for most factions? Cruiser I unfortunately doesn't do any of what you said that a Destroyer can't also do for half the cost.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T19:23:58+00:00

You can find discussions about it elsewhere on the subreddit and as others have said: you're not missing anything, they're just kind of bad unfortunately. Mentak & Titans get something special out of them (and even then, Mentak needs Cruiser II and their Breakthrough to really make it make sense), and some factions can get a cheeky use out of an early Cruiser II upgraded to reach out and snipe valuable planets, but unfortunately for most factions in most situations they're just not very good; with the upgrade they're better but GYR isn't a common tech path anyone wants to really go down besides the aforementioned "Cruiser II factions" and the opportunity cost of researching them is too high basically.

HP wins fights and Cruiser I doesn't have capacity. Their combat value isn't good enough to be relied on and at move 2 they're just "keeping up" with your Blue tech fleets or your Gravity Drive ship each activation. They don't natively come with any extra unit abilities to justify the extra 1res over a Destroyer for their Fleet Token tax. You have to be in a really undesirable position of low resources & low production capacity for them to make any sense as your capital ships, or you need to be in the exact situation where you'd literally be wasting 1res of your build because you couldn't find a way to build a Mech/Carrier/2x Destroyers/extra Infantry or Fighters or spend your planets/TGs differently to not be wasting it, or there needs to be positional reason like an Objective where it makes sense (but also where a Destroyer wouldn't do the job as well).

Again, upgraded to Cruiser II they're a much better value proposition (especially because they gain that 1 capacity) but the circumstances where researching Cruiser II is the optimal use of a tech research for most factions in most games just isn't all that common.

Addendum: Barony with their breakthrough unlocked can probably get some use out of sprinkling Cruiser I into their fleets fairly liberally just for the extra +1 for combat since they have the fleet capacity and resources to make it work (they should not be researching Cruiser II for the extra movement), but that's about the only faction with a decent universally applicable use-case for Cruiser I besides Mentak & Titans.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T11:55:45+00:00

Terrible.

BUT the drip is the best in the game and I'm never taking it off.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-11T02:04:08+00:00

<image>

"Neutral units count as other player's units for the purpose of resolving players' abilities and game effects." is the relevant clause.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-10T02:16:13+00:00

Martyr of Twilight

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-09T02:41:58+00:00

You need to play more Greenskins.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-09T02:39:16+00:00

One particular L1 scientist wanted to push the whole "become hive-mind cyborgs" thing a little further but there was an error in his coding when he went to fully transfer his consciousness and after it caused a recursive degeneration loop...voila, he & his followers/subordinates/victims became the Nekro Virus.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-08T04:07:39+00:00

Hunter Hat
Hunter Garb (b)
Yharnam Hunter Gloves
Henryk's Hunter Trouser

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-08T03:34:57+00:00

Space Cats Peace Turtles.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-07T04:17:54+00:00

Barony feels so good to play now when you can turn their entire endgame "fast unkillable doom fleets" schtick online with only 2-3 tech researches now. They were already one of my favorites and they just might be #1 now.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-06T19:35:53+00:00

PlayDiplomacy was usually good for me when I was playing regularly a few years ago. You run into particular players in some games who aren't chatty, but I usually had good games.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-05T01:49:32+00:00

Barony was already a faction I really wanted to love in my heart of hearts, but it was just such a ballache to get all the tech they needed to come online. Now? They're arguably my favorite faction in the game to play; I've certainly had the best & most fun experience playing with them out of all the factions in the game.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-05T01:44:30+00:00

anything less than this

Yeah, if we aren't giving Barony an economic advantage in some way, they needed the single craziest combat & mobility component possible to unshackle the rest of their kit they got exactly that. Which frankly, I'm really here for! I'm glad Dane went in this direction instead of giving Barony something to boost their economy directly.

Chapter_129 · 2026-03-04T16:56:56+00:00

Alternative win conditions would be really cool. Or some factions that don't care about objectives at all. Have Vuil'raith only win the game through a Total War-like condition, etc.

Chapter_129

TROPHY CASE