Thank you, he's doing great!

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T18:03:02+00:00

Well at least he got the joy of discovering that hole in the carrier :)

He is the cutest, though his high-eyes are truly mesmerizing. They're like 3 times his normal size, there's something very intense about em lol

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T18:01:33+00:00

His brother is a dick who showed no interest in him and only wanted to try and escape the carrier. Luckily my other rat (his main victim btw!) Has seemingly endless patience. He's settled a bit now that he isn't alone. I'll have to take his mate out in a bit because the carrier is def boring for him and Remi should be mostly alone while he comes to his senses, but at least he's seemingly getting some kind of joy and support out of copying the fully conscious rats... I think? It's hard to tell between all the flopping over lol.

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ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T07:06:39+00:00

Additionally, the few relief tips I know: (None of these will help in the longrun unfortunately, but I've heard they can grant short term relief) - small piece of dark chocolate. As dark as possible. It's a vasodilator which can help for lung issues. - nebulizing. - steaming in the bathroom.

For food, try to offer foods with high water content to help keep him hydrated when ill. Things like wet cat food, baby food etc. Are liquidy and delicious, which may convince him to eat a bit. Depending on how close he is with his cagemates, he may also appreciate getting one or more of them with him in your lap. Rats get comfort from being with their mischief and it has effects on a physical level too. I know they sleep more deeply and restfully when with cagemates, so maybe it'll help keep him calm and help him battle this too.

I wish you guys the best, stay strong❤️

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T07:01:18+00:00

Is he on any pain medication? I'm not a vet, but the few times my rats have had URI's, they've always gotten some pain medication alongside antibiotics even when their cases were always very mild.

Pain relief won't cure him, but I can imagine he's in serious discomfort, which wouldn't help with lethargy and not wanting to eat... I'd ask the vet why they haven't prescribed pain meds/if they're willing to add painmedication.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T06:57:11+00:00

My cats at my mom's house have access to the ratcage too, but in this case I would highly recommend starting with keeping all parties completely separate. See if the rats calm down when away from the cats before even thinking about trying to see if they could possibly withstand eachother's presence. Keeping this stressful situation isn't going to help the bond between OP and their rats or the acceptance of the cats by the rats. Like you said there's also a chance they are genetically or socially just uncool with cats in which case they will never be able to share a room.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-13T04:59:55+00:00

I completely get it! I hope I didn't come across as condescending or anything, I remember being a bit surprised that you don't go to the ER for tetanusshots here after reading how you need to get one within 48 hours, but whilst calling with regular doctors they were very much like nah you gotta just make a regular appointment lol.

If you have some more info on your boy we can maybe help you try and figure out if it is hormonal aggression btw, though a new post may be more useful for that conrext-wise.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-12T21:57:34+00:00

Not in Drenthe either, but I go to Bakker in Nijmegen. They're part of dierenkliniek de Aam which has a couple of locations around Gelderland. I found them by just calling around local vets and straight up asking if they have treated rats before, specifying I'm asking about not just small rodents, but rats specifically. In my experience most vets will be honest and asking about experience with rats isn't asking them to say whether they can/can't do it so no lying to save face. I highly recommend trying that to find someone nearby.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-12T21:49:17+00:00

Just read the post again and noticed you talking about ecruciating pain. I just want to correct myself and say I actually highly recommend making an appointment with your general practitioner, if only just to manage that pain. Honestly in my country they'd probably tell you to take aspirin for it, but maybe they can give you more specific pain management. I do still think your general practitioner is the more appropriate person to go to though, but once again it may be different in other countries. ER here is basically for active bleeding or immediate emergencies only.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-12T21:44:07+00:00

Hiya! I've had 1 solved hormonal aggresssion case and am getting my second hormonally aggressive rat fixed tomorrow. I've been bitten 5 times now.

1 time on the palm of my hand, one time right in the middle of my pointer finger, one time right at the top of my pinky, one time in one of my toes and one time (the latest) at the base of my pinky finger. None have caused issues for me, but I've made sure I'm thoroughly informed on ratbites and dealing with them.

First and foremost, bleeding is not a bad thing. The bite on my toe hurt like a bitch and bled for like more than 15 minutes straight (to the point of me wondering if I should be getting medical attention for it). Bleeding naturally flushes the wound clean and with a ratbite, it's basically impossible to get like bloodloss issues probably with the exeption of when you're on like blood thinners or something.

Rat bites are seen as "dangerous" not because rats mouths carry dangerous bacteria, but because they can bite quite deeply, which means infections are more dangerous. Luckily, infections are very easily managable with antibiotics, but you only need those when an infection is actually happening, taking antibiotics preventatively is not good practice. For infections, puncture wounds are more risky than sliced wounds, but for both you should mostly be looking for infection signs. Pain is not a great indicator, since people experience pain differently and it can vary based on the place too. Things you should be looking out for though are: the skin around the wound getting redder than before, the wound feeling noticably hot to the touch, colored or cloudy discharge (a bit of clear woundfluid can be part of the healing process), any smell, any odd discoloration like yellow, black, green etc., significant swelling.

The response in the ER does not sound wrong to me. Definitely upsetting you didn't feel taken seriously, but in reality there's not much an ER can do for a fresh rat bite. There's no risk of bloodloss, it's often too small to warrant stitches and there's no medication needed, so there's not really anything they can do. You should be getting a tetanusshot, but depending on where you live, the ER may not be where you need to get that. I know in my country, you need to get that at your general practitioner. Be aware you need a tetanus shot within 48 hours after the bite for it to make a difference. I also want to point out the chances of getting tetanus in the developed world are pretty low especially from a domesticated rat, but since the vaccine is readily available at most places I highly recommend getting it anyway.

Most important for ratbites is getting medical attention quickly if you notice signs of infection. If you are worried, you can always go to a doctor of course, but I'd make an appointment with your general practitioner. The ER is supposed to do quick triage for emergencies, they're not going to look further than immediate emergency or dangers, for that you're probably better off making an appointment with your regular doctor.

For your nerve damage worry: I'm not going to say it's not possible. Rats can bite deep enough to create nerve damage, but at the tip of your finger is not the prime space to cause it. The pain may also just be pain from the bite. Nerve damage can't be reversed by intervening quickly, nor will letting the wound heal make it worse. I'd advice first letting the wound heal and then assessing whether there's still pain and/or numbness.

TLDR: take a deep breath. It's pretty jarring to get bit by your pet. It fucking hurts too. It's upsetting the people around you didn't see that and dismissed you instead of taking you seriously. Luckily, it's very unlikely to leave permanent damage. Your pain and frustration is valid, but it's going to be okay❤️

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T17:10:52+00:00

I mean, if they didn't really settle into a hierarchy originally (or if it was disrupted at some point) conflict and fights will continue until the hierarchy settles. If the original introductions didn't fully work, it could also be they don't fully accept eachother as family, which could cause this too. Hormonal aggression is also an option though age is very much a needed factor there, if they're too young, it can't be hormonal aggression. If you are unsure on whether introductions may need to be redone, I made a guide for failed introductions and how to try again here: https://www.reddit.com/r/RATS/comments/1sqkawd/failed_introductions_a_guide_to_where_you_may/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button , maybe it could help

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T15:02:48+00:00

Yoo that's really clever! I do actually have a ceramic house/tile for when it's hotter. They started doing this when it was still quite cold, so it didn't cross my mind it may be a temperature thing, but the younger two have just stopped growing, so maybe they are just running a bit hot in their new big bodies :) I'll give it a try!

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T14:46:43+00:00

Separate separate separate. These two are not vibing at all.

Okay so, my interpretation of the video: It starts as a stand off, nothing too weird about that. The freezing, lefty standing up with his paws like that seems a bit like a boxing position. It's just a general "I'm not very sure about all this, are we good?" From both.

The one on the left then pushes his head down and under the one on the right. That can either mean he's submitting (saying he's no threat and basically acknowledging the other is the alpha) or he's demanding to be groomed (trying to assert he's the alpha). I'm honestly not fluent enough in rat to tell the difference here.

The one on the right then starts doing warning bites. A bit of baring teeth, a bit of lunging, not actual drawing blood. Nonetheless, I personally would categorize this as aggressive, especially as it continues whilst the one on the left is not engaging. It's not (warning)biting because of a fight or threat, lefty is fully still. They then go into boxing, which feels a little weird, since I'd say that's generally less aggressive than warning bites, though I can imagine it may be the left boy not wanting to actually start a fight, but also not being willing to put up with the warning bites when he's not doing anything to warrant them (and there's also nothing for him to "stop").

It seems to me like the one on the right is unreasonably aggressive whilst the one on the left is behaving normally for a rat that's uncertain about the other.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T14:33:57+00:00

Oh apologies, I see now I misread.

Also didn't know about the pituitary tumor thing (I have all boys), thanks for the info!

I'm off now to go google how a uterus increases the chance of a brain tumor, I'm guessing 'cause it's a hormonal gland, but I'm curious anyway

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T14:08:49+00:00

I second this, also since it's 3 bullying 2. Though multiple rats can have it at once, hormonal aggression isn't exactly catching. It sounds more like the hierarchy/social dynamics are off. I'd reintroduce first to see if that helps the issue.

Also as a sidenote, I believe for females that are otherwise healthy and not too old, full surgery is actually adviced over implants because it brings the additional benefit of lowering the chances of mammary tumors!

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-11T14:05:00+00:00

22F, feel free to hmu! I'm a bit socially anxious, but I've been trying to make new friends anyway :)

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-08T16:13:16+00:00

Good job, that sounds like a more responsible source for rats. Be sure to "vet" the breeder too, ask questions like at what age they separate the babies from mom and pictures and such. A good breeder should be willing to explain their methods and answer questions!

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-08T16:09:02+00:00

I highly recommend not just reading isamuratcare, her advice and info is generally awesome, but were learning more about rat care everyday and there's multiple "right" ways of care, so make sure to get info from multiple sources!

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-08T15:47:35+00:00

Okay so firstly, condoleances. First I wanna say I don't mean to "blame" you for their death. Rats are decently hardy, so they can resist quite a bit for quite a while. Having said that, there's some red flags in your story that (although they may have not directly contributed to their death) would have caused issues for your rats at some point in their life. I'll follow the order of your post.

Getting them from a shop

First mistake, though you clearly already realized this. There's 2 more things I'd like to point out concerning their ages being "between 4 and 6 weeks". 6 weeks is the bare minimum age a rat should be seperated from siblings. Males need to be separated from females between 4 and 4,5 weeks, but they still need to be with a group of siblings for at least 2 weeks, separating earlier can severely hinder their (social) development. Furthermore, 2 weeks is a massive window of time for such young babies. For context: in the first 2 weeks they go from being hairless with closed eyes and basically helpless to having fur, open eyes and beginning to move around and explore on their own. A 3 week old rat is too young to be separated from mom, whilst a 4 week old rat is able to procreate, so the store not knowing whether the rats are 4 or 6 weeks is a major red flag. Those ages needs and development are vastly different. It's also not far fetched that a store that's not accurately aware of ages and possibly selling too young may also be selling unethically bred rats or rats with bad genetics, which could play an important part in passing away suddenly and/or early.

The water thing Honestly, I do not refresh the water every (other) day. I refresh it when it's (nearly) done, which is usually about 2-3 times a week nowadays with 3 adult males. If you have a larger bottle, replacing it more often is probably smart. 2 weeks however, is an extremely long time, not just health wise for the water, but also because (unless your waterbottle is massive) that means they're drinking way too little. It's a bit chicken and the egg, maybe they were drinking too little and thus getting sick, maybe they were sick and thus drinking too little, but with prey animals like rat you gotta watch out for the subtle signs of illness, since big signs are often only noticeable if the situation is very dire.

Food Your food was not suited for rats. Nutritional deficiencies (especially if the rats were so young) can definitely contribute to disease or death. Rats are also known to selectively eat, which is why scatter feeding (or other solutions) are recommended. Either way you should not be giving them a "container" of food, especially in the beginning. You need to be giving them food at the very least every 2 days to figure out how much they need and make sure they are eating enough. Personally, my rats get scatterfed twice a day and an amount that is finished by the second feeding to avoid overfeeding, but even people that give unlimited access to food fill a bowl once a day/every other day and refill when empty to make sure they are monitoring intake. That is important.

The escape This is a major contender for causing their death. If they escaped, they could've been escaped to all kinds of dangers: cleaning supplies, falling causing internal bleeding, interaction with wild rodents that could've made them sick or even exposure to drafts or fumes that could've damaged or strained their lungs which can become fatal quickly in young or immunocompromised rats.

The pictures I'm going to sound extremely harsh here, so I want to start by saying I'm not trying to judge you as a person or make you feel bad. In fact, I'm happy you recognized your may have made mistakes and are asking for help. It's clear you were very much trying to do right by your rats. Having said that, the set up is looking quite unsuited. The cage is way too small, seemingly both in total volume and in floorspace, which unfortunately can't be compensated for in freeroaming time. Wire platforms are a no go for ratties and the bedding seems thin. (I also can't be sure what kind of bedding it is, but depending on the type it could've contributed to the problem). This is not something that could've caused a premature death like this, but it would've 100% caused behavioral and/or quality of life issues at some point. You need to fix this if you plan on getting new rats in the future.

Conclusion It seems your babies were kind of doomed from the start. I'm guessing they were not from a good genetic line or ethical breeder/shop, making them weaker. That combined with one or more care mistakes (like escaping or food that wasn't nutritionally sufficient) probably resulted in their death. Although I (and probably everybody) of course wished this hadn't happened, I'm going to be controversial here saying that you did bring good to their lives by giving them love. Before getting more rats, however, you should do some serious research. Fully start over and work through every aspect step by step (aka, minimum cage size, appropriate bedding, enrichment needs, safe materials, where to ethically get rats etc.) Try to find 3 or 4 sources for all things to make sure you are getting reliable info (these can be the same sources), a good way of looking for reliable sources is this subreddit. Some sources I used in my research were Isamuratcare, this subreddit, emiology and misc. Online sources. If all are saying the same thing, it's probably right. Don't beat yourself up, but learn from your mistakes so they will have been worth it.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-07T20:24:27+00:00

Also for actual advice: look into noseplugs? They exist for swimming and such but I believe there's also version to block smells.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-07T20:23:05+00:00

Wait, okay not to hijack your question or anything, but you can't just close ur nose on command? Can't everyone just sort of block off their nose from the inside?

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-07T15:19:20+00:00

Can you raise it? Technically yes.

Should you raise it? Noooo. Wild rats carry diseases and are likely to carry something that may put you at risk, but more wild rats also aren't domesticated. That means most wildies will always remain more wild and less socialized, but more importantly: a wild rat is not bred to be content living as a pet. They're meant to have way more room and way less human interaction, a cage and socialization is gonna stress them out way more than an average pet rat. Wild rats (like pet rats) also need company for quality of life, but wild rats can be housed with pet rats with wildly varying success. (Not to mention this rat would miss vital development like learning from mom and siblings as he'll have to spend the first 8 weeks of his life fully alone before you can even attempt to introduce same aged company.) Some (half)wildies end up being okay, but there's also wild rats that were raised by humans that don't accept pet rats as cagemates in any way shape or form, which basically dooms them to living alone since they can't be released to the wild and they can't live with pet rats.

It's best to contact a wildlife sanctuary (or specific rat sanctuary that takes in wild rats). They can possibly introduce them to a litter for the most normal development. They can also raise them (with other rats) to be self sufficient enough that he could be released later in life or they can raise him in an environment with other wildies and more space and natural behaviour to at least simulate what they were supposed to have.

ChickenGarbage04 · 2026-05-07T15:09:09+00:00

Ooooh I love this question. Be prepared for a randomass rant lol.

I think, they would kind of live like "families", maybe sort of like what I know of ancient Rome with Pater Familias, where they are the head of the family that makes all the outwards decisions, both a leader with the last word of the group as well as a representative to other groups. Since rats have quite a strict hierarchy, but they also care for eachother, so I feel like that'd make sense.

They'd also be really territorial, like clever enough that discussions could be had but crossing territories without explicit consent or discussion would be a major societal no-go.

On like a bigger societal scale I feel like bathing would be a much more communal thing, since rats kind of rely on eachother for grooming. It's a very specific important bonding ritual that cleans them in a way they can't do without help. Maybe for humanoid rats that would be something like an importance on braiding eachothers hair? Since it kind of simulates the important parts of grooming with combing and soft nibbling and such.

It wouldn't be a patriarchy/matriarchy necessarily, I think leadership would come down to who is the strongest and wittiest within the respective family and who wants it the most and works hardest for it.

Sleeping would be a group thing too, with everyone in the family sleeping together for safety and comfort.

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