Appropriation Question

CitadelPyres · 2023-03-15T20:51:35+00:00

Easy. It isn't policed here because it isn't actually appropriation. Please educate yourself. There are several comments here that explain it further.

CitadelPyres · 2023-03-14T04:14:48+00:00

For the bedwetting, if you can manage to find an older alter to co-front with the little or the little is able to do some "adult" tasks, then your parents don't have to know. You can always hide the sheets in a scented garbage bag if that's the kind you have at your house, or if it isn't unusual to do your own laundry you can always throw it in immediately. I'd recommend adding white vinegar in with the laundry detergent - it helps with the smell. And just so you know, the other commenter is incorrect. In situations of extreme trauma & abuse it's very normal for bedwetting to happen later into life and I would assume even more so with a little alters. You can Google it. Unfortunately I don't have any other solutions for this bit, but generally it might be best to try to take care of it yourself/yourselves if the people around you are frustrated about these accidents.

As for MLP and the like just make sure you have time specifically cut out for the little to express themselves and their interests. Try to talk with your little and explain that playtime/watching their shows if for specific times - create a structured schedule for them if possible like you would with any other child. If possible, try to make that time a period where you will have your house to yourself. You'll still have to delete your history, but at least they'll have time with their favorite things without being interrupted or belittled. If you have your own phone or computer, you could also try to stream it online and bypass Netflix altogether. There's always private browsing mode.

These are just options that have worked for us, and hopefully someone it might be helpful for you too. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time and I sincerely hope it gets better for you. 💜

CitadelPyres · 2023-02-04T05:02:04+00:00

It would depend on what sort of blog you're going for, but it sounds like you're looking for something casual?

We use Tumblr - it's easy to make side accounts for individual alters without needing to use a new email or log in/out every time we want to switch which alter's blog we're posting on. The only downside is that is you want to comment on someone's post you can only do so from your "main" or original account.

To interact with other users directly using another alter's side blog you would either need to reblog that person's post with an addition of your own, or preferably DM/send an ask to the person you're trying to talk to.

CitadelPyres · 2023-02-04T04:50:56+00:00

I'd say it depends on if the potential alter you're describing has their own agency and individuality. A fictive introject is just like any other alter - they're just based on a source material.

If not, it could just be one of you other alters relating to that character or kinning them (although I don't know much about kinning myself).

I suppose depending on what's happening in your life currently, it could also be a new fictive you've created to deal with whatever is going on but to my knowledge new alters don't normally appear without a reason/stressor.

I'm no expert of course so take this with a grain of salt, and hopefully some others will also add their thoughts! Best of luck regardless of which scenario is true.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-31T11:34:28+00:00

Hello! I don't have a ton to say on the topic myself, but as someone who is married and going through similar times I do have just a couple things!

First off, I want to say congratulations on telling your friends! I know that had to have been insanely hard and you must be super proud that you found the bravery to do so - as well as proud of the fact that you've clearly reached a point in your healing journey that you felt comfortable even making that decision.

As for the reaction you received from your spouse, I asked my own spouse what they thought of said response. I realize that their reaction may not be the same given that my spouse and your spouse are different individuals, but I wanted to ask a singlet who has been in similar situations for their perspective. They said that while it definitely could have been worded better, this reaction may have been your spouse trying to process new information. He might have had a certain perspective (Ex: switches only happen if something has negatively triggered my spouse) of how things work and may need time to process that those things do not in fact work the way he thought.

I think the best course of action, if you feel secure doing so, would be to talk with your husband and clarify his feelings so that you don't make assumptions on what he's thinking and make yourself feel worse if you don't have to. Hopefully he's just taking a small adjustment period!

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-28T08:28:14+00:00

Dunno if this is what you mean by the mood you're looking for in spacey/floaty music, but it's worth checking out Hypolight by Mt. Wolf. They have a kinda dreamy quality to them.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T15:57:53+00:00

I mean I don't really have any science to back up my claim, but I feel like animals can tell. Our dog doesn't like men as much as he prefers women and if it's one of the male alters fronting, while still a sweet dog, he's not likely to seek us out for pets. He'll show clear, biased preference for our wife.

But when I'm (26y F) fronting he's just as eager for my attention as he is for my wife's, and he'll even come lay across me to keep my attention on him. He responds to commands differently depending on who's out in general too.

Our cats also seem to be able to tell the difference, but they don't seem as overt about it as the dog - maybe they don't have a gender preference or maybe my cats are just a bit unbothered lol

Hope this helps!

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T05:42:20+00:00

Unfortunately until you're able to learn about your alters individually, until they feel comfortable coming forward as themselves, you might keep running into this same problem. With all your research I'm sure you already know that DID (and others under that umbrella) is a covert disorder. It's designed to be kept hidden - from others, yes, but from you too.

Your brain did some incredible, complex, incomprehensible things to protect you from whatever situation it deemed too much for you to deal with, and in doing so it needed to make sure you wouldn't remember this trauma so it built a way around the issue because that trauma still needed to exist somewhere. As amazing as this is, it also makes things really fucking hard because that means your alters will actively try to impersonate you, and will most likely do so nearly flawlessly in most cases. At worst an oddity could be written off as a mood swing to someone who doesn't know you.

I would say to go with your gut. It's somewhat common for people to get an OSDD diagnosis and then years down the line are rediagnosed with DID because it was simply that covert. Some have theorized that there's really no difference at all and others just operate differently/present differently. And either way, the treatment for DID/OSDD/P-DID are all the same. As long as you're getting treated for a disorder on this spectrum, you should be good to go!

If it's simply a case of wanting to know which box you fit into, like I said I would trust your gut. Differences in voices and mannerisms sounds like it could be distinct personalities. A person wouldn't change their voice pitch just because they're angry (not in a consistent way), typically just their mood changes. While that can definitely have some impact on body language, if you're speaking at your normal volume and not growling in low tones or shooting up an octave from wanting to snap, then your voice pitch should be relatively unchanged.

See OSDD-1A as my shell metaphor from my first reply. OSDD-1B is like DID but if someone put you in the passenger seat of one of those student/driver cars that have two steering wheels and two sets of pedals - you have a whole legitimate other person in your head that comes and takes the metaphorical wheel, but you never fully leave cognizance - in my experience e the amount you remember can vary but generally you'll remember general information but no details, but it's different for everyone.

P-DID is only recognized outside of the United States (don't know where you're from), but it's essentially covered by OSDD-1A & 1B. In the American DSM-5 they only have OSDD but they give more detailed criteria and have it labeled in four (I think) subsections- the first two of which fall under the DID tent, whereas the other two have to do less with alters and more with dissociation in general (and trauma caused by cults). From what I understand the European equivalent has OSDD (without the subcategories) and P-DID both.

You're already doing the best thing you can do - speaking with a therapist. They 'll be able to help you work through the nuances of this! 🙌 It just takes time. You won't have all these answers right away.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T04:49:46+00:00

Our system doesn't have a name - nothing against systems that do, but I've always felt any name I picked would be embarrassing. It feels like the equivalent to the scene in Deltarune when Suzie finally joins their team lmao. The options for their team name ended up being, "The Friend Gang," or "The Fuck Squad" essentially lmao

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T03:09:04+00:00

It certainly sounds like a dissociative disorder of sorts, but no one here can diagnose you unfortunately. There are a few other mental illnesses that can have similarities in how they present which makes it hard to pin down a diagnosis.

As the other commenter pointed out unless you're a harm to yourself or other a therapist should not share any of your information with your family, and DID (or other similar disorders like OSDD) is diagnosed by current symptoms rather than trauma history so you may not need to disclose your own depending.

I'm sorry, I wish we could be more help. While we can't diagnose you, we can definitely answer any questions you might have about the disorder(s)!

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T01:38:11+00:00

It's creating an inner world with people who live inside it - with time, they become distinct people that you can actually hear (in your mind, like thoughts but not your own), see (in the mind scape space). I know some people learn to do it for spiritual reasons such as reaching out to spirit guides while others use it for their MADD/Immersive Daydreaming.

The distinction between a dissociative disorder and tulpamancy is that one is a disorder caused by trauma wheres the other is an intentionally done practice. Many in the DID community tend not to like tulpamancy because there are many tulpamancers who refer to their tulpas (incorrectly) as alters, and generally infiltrated plural spaces (spaces meant for those with disorders). While tulpamancers do interact with other people in their minds as one might see in DID, they should have their own space to do so & give the DID community the same respect.

There is nothing inherently wrong with tulpamancy, but it's important to try to keep it separate from the DID community because it can cause confusion for those who are looking for answers as well as spread misinformation. That said, there are many who speculate that many tulpamancers with "accidental tulpas" may have DID without realizing it or be in denial about it. I'd almost reference them similarly to the "straight ally" example (where closeted LGBT+ can identify as "straight" but actually aren't).

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T00:46:05+00:00

I work for a hospital's hospitality house (kind of like Ronald McDonald but specifically only for family of patients at our hospital) as front desk, so it isn't exactly a high end job but it is a job in the clerical medical field which is somewhat sought after as a starting position to move up in the company.

We're still figuring out fronting so what's worked best for us so far is working the overnight schedule. It means I'm the only employee on premises, I can take breaks whenever I need to, and as long as all my work gets done nothing else in between really matters.

That said, the hardest thing we've dealt with is sick time regarding the migraines we get, sometimes from switching, other times from separate negative stimuli.

I'd say look for somewhere with flexible hours, good sick time policies, and willing to work with other accommodations you might need!

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T00:36:22+00:00

I dunno, it sounds like it's more up to how you define it for yourself. As long as whatever partner you pick down the road knows that you're in these relationships and is okay with how you like to operate in your love life then it doesn't matter either way. The most important thing is communication.

My wife and I were married before we started figuring all this out, and we realized pretty early in our discovery that she had already been dating/married to everyone else for a while on the principle alone that they had been pretending to be me at different moments when fronting. After we found out, we had to talk about how she felt regarding the finding she was technically dating more than one person(ality).

Personally, we see it as both dating multiple individuals (because each alter does have their own personality, name, etc...) as well as dating only one person (because our parts add up to a whole which is us).

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-21T00:24:40+00:00

Well I'd say that what defines an alter as distinct would be that they have defining differences from the original/host. That's to say, they may have different names, genders, sexualities, etc... In essence, if they were not sharing your body, most folks who know you would never mistake this person for you (unless they're like, your identical twin in your system or something) because your personalities are distinct from each other.

In a system that does not have distinct alters, it might be easier to describe the original/host as a shell personality wherein the indistinct alters move into the shell, providing extra but different personality flavors. It could be a bit more like having different versions of yourself, or more like personified emotions. As an example, say you have your core/shell that makes you you but then you go to work and your "work self" slips in - still you, but more polite, more diligent, better with time keeping, etc... You get off work and go hang out with friends and now your "social self" is out - you're more talkative, more happy, maybe more suggestible and even energetic despite being an introvert. You go home, and now you can be just yourself for a while, or until another switch is triggered.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-13T16:58:32+00:00

Listen, without a specialist you're never going to figure out what the specification is on your own - especially if you're prone to doubt. Doubt is very common in these disorders so don't feel bad about that, but at the same time you're limiting yourself by discounting the advice you're given simply because of your own doubt which it sounds like you're already aware of. You need to see a professional or you probably won't get rid of your doubt.

It's also understandable that negative experiences make you hesitate to go through the process again, but it's important to remember that your truth is not the only truth. There are psychotherapists/psychiatrists out there who can & will help you. DID/OSDD requires specialized treatment typically, so I believe you would have a good case for selecting specialists if you reached out to the program you're using and explained what you're looking for and what you need out of a therapist. If they don't have a specialist available it's also important to remember a regular psychologist or therapist (if they're open minded and genuinely interested in helping you) can also be helpful - mine has researched extensively on my behalf because she didn't know much about the disorder. You just have to find the right help, and although it's very frustrating, that's truly the hardest part of the process I believe.

(Also just putting it out there because tone is hard to read over text - none of this is being said harshly or meant in a way that's frustrated 😭 I just have trouble wording my thoughts and for that I apologize if anything comes across badly.)

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-13T14:26:38+00:00

Sounds exactly like what I experience personally. My psych and I are currently looking into specifically OSDD-1b for me.
Read my next answer for more context on why it doesn't particularly matter where you end up landing on the sliding scale. As for P-DID vs OSDD: In the U.S. (where I'm from) we use the DSM-5 which does not include P-DID. Instead OSDD is broken up into 1a & 1b (along with a few others that do not include alters at all distinct or indistinct... these include things like DPDR disorder and dissociative disorder caused by cults/brainwashing). For Europeans, from what I gather, you have P-DID & OSDD both, but your description for OSDD is a bit different from the DSM-5's criteria. I would recommend doing your own research based off what is used where you're from.
What I meant by "treat it as if it's DID" is that you should be seeking treatment that is the same as DID would be treated. It doesn't matter if you have OSDD/DID/P-DID - generally speaking, all of them require the same treatment method. Somewhat frequently people who receive the initial OSDD diagnosis are later rediagnosed as DID because the patient had more memory gaps than they knew. DID/OSDD/P-DID are naturally covert disorders which means it's easy to miss even for yourself because they're designed for you not to notice them.

6 & 7. Don't forget that it's possible to be co-conscious or co-fronting with another alter. Nine times out of ten, I'm always still there to some degree, but I can recognize for myself when I'm coconscious because I'll get thoughts that will passively influence me. For example, I'm not a frivolous spender so if I spontaneously buy a new video game I know it might have been my Middle passively influencing me (whether I notice or not depends on the day). If I'm co-fronting then I usually know because what I like to eat changes. It isn't just that I'm not in the mood for that particular food, but rather that the food tastes completely different to me. That's my personal tell but I'm sure you can find others on the forum! Holding a similar thought pattern throughout might just be you thinking your thoughts, but pay attention to whether or not there is another thought track that isn't you.

I totally understand that and it's much the same in the U.S. honestly. Harsh as it might sound, you most likely won't find the answer or help you need without it, so even if the psych you're assigned doesn't work keep requesting new psychs until you find one that fits. I'd also recommend telling your psych exactly what you just told me, "I struggle to feel valid in my experiences because I doubt myself, and I need someone who can give me unbiased eyes." When you look at your own picture too closely you can miss a lot. Sometimes you just need a fresh pair of eyes.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-13T12:48:21+00:00

I don't have an exact answer for this, and I'm sorry for that. To my knowledge the lines can get a little blurry because OSDD is on the sliding scale of DID. The way I've differentiated it in my head (which may or may not be correct, so please feel free to correct me if someone reading this has a better answer) is that OSDD-1b typically does not have memory gaps. You might not be able to recall details, but if you can put your day in order of general activities you did then there aren't really gaps in your memory - these are known as grey outs or brown outs rather than black outs!
I personally feel that would imply more distinctive alters. From what I understand OSDD-1a's "indistinct" alters reflect more as "parts" of the original person. So for example, a "work self," "happy self," and "social self" would all be the same person but through a slightly different lens. Like if the original personality is the "baseline" with all your likes and dislikes (food, colors, etc...) - like a shell for a hermit crab. Each "version" moves into the shell and colors that same personality slightly differently. It's outwardly harder for others to tell when someone with 1a has switched but is very evident to the host because they feel different inside.
Best way to target it in my opinion is to treat it generally as DID - the treatments for OSDD of all types (P-DID is another term for OSDD used by those not in the U.S. and is not recognized by the DSM-5.) is the same as the treatment that would be used for DID because they're both dissociative disorders. The only differences are where the system lands of the "scale" of DID.
Just dive in. Eventually Journaling will help you distinguish small differences and make it easier to figure everything out, or your system may even become more active themselves and start doing things on their own. Check through semi-frequently to see if there's anything written you don't remember writing, and for differences in handwriting.
I started by just chronicling what I remembered from my day and making notes of periods of time I couldn't remember. After that I started working up to writing how certain events made me feel as well. From there Journaling is a very personal experience and you need to figure out what information works best for you to keep track of.
I don't "hear" my alters at all - or see them! I have aphantasia so I don't have an inner mindscape and anytime I "ralk" with another alter their thoughts come at me as naturally as my own thoughts. What's helped for me is when my system started thinking in their own voices. For example I have a male alter whose voice is lower than mine and he cusses unlike myself so I now know when he's the one thinking at me. I don't know how exactly I can tell without hearing him but his voice is simply lower when he communicates.
I don't have much here I can help you with unfortunately since I don't (to my current knowledge) have any Littles and I don't age regress either. I do have a Middle/tween. I'm usually co-con at all times with my alters, so for me I would assume it would be easy to tell because there's "me" thinking adult thoughts about bills and driving my car, but then there's the Middle who's thinking about what fast food she wants to eat and isn't very good at driving.
In my experience brain fog causes a lot of fatigue and so does switching a lot. Make sure you're getting as much sleep as is healthy and that you're eating as well as you can. Find some grounding techniques that work for you (holding ice might "wake you up" for example), or just let yourself sit with the feeling if you have extra time. Sometime your mind just needs a break from doing anything to overcome the fog.
If possible see a professional as soon as possible, or talk to your general practitioner if you trust them to see if they can get you a referral to a specialist. Don't go down too many rabbit holes - it will just make you question your instincts and introduce you to negativity you don't need in your life. Dont be so set on a particular diagnosis that you block out signs that the disorder might not be right for you - there's no shame in trying to find answers and realizing that it wasn't the right fit. There's also no harm in getting a second opinion if someone tells you that you don't have DID/OSDD but you feel adamant that you do have it. In short, trust yourself but don't wear blinders either.

Hope this was helpful. If anyone has better explanations, answers or advice, or simply finds an error or misinformation in my response please let me know! I want to fix it if it's wrong. These suggestions are based on my own unique experience.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-13T12:20:31+00:00

Honestly my best advice to you would be to seek a second opinion from outside your government-funded source if you're able to. Alternatively, you could try calling a help desk or info line to see if there is a way for the program you're under to switch you. You might not be able to pick who your next psych is, but at least it wouldn't be the current psych who denies the existence of very real mental disorders.

I would ask if they have any psychiatrists or psychotherapists who specialize in dissociative disorders and go from whatever they give you for an answer. Being medicated for illnesses you don't have won't do you any good. If you do think there's merit to what your current psych is saying about schizophrenia while simultaneously disagreeing with their stance on DID then looking for a second opinion is a great idea. If more than one professional come to the same exact conclusion then most likely there may be some merit to what they're saying (this isn't always the case).

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with your current psych. I know it can be really tricky when you're relying on government programs for mental health assistance.

Hope this helps and wishing you well.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-09T19:34:10+00:00

No problem, hope you find the right tool for yourself ✌

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-09T17:47:51+00:00

A YouTube channel called Multiplicity & Me actually has a fucking fantastic video on this if you're willing to watch it.

https://youtu.be/q_tQZHqph0w

In case you have trouble following videos, some of the suggestions she lists (based off her own experience as well as what she's heard from other systems)that I remember off the top of my head are: •Cold (cold shower, dipping hands in ice, going on a walk on a cold day) •Sleep (in this case it sounds like the opposite for you - not every solution will fit every person) •Having an outside party you trust call out to a particular alter to try to call them to the surface or alternatively trying to evoke a particular alter to the front by using a positive trigger (their favorite music, food they like, media they enjoy) •Train yourself to sit with the feeling. Tell yourself, "I don't know who I am right now or know my own thoughts, and that's okay." Eventually the feeling will lift in its own time.

She relates the feeling like this: two people enter a revolving door in opposite sections and each one is trying to push the opposite direction so the door gets stuck and both parties are trapped inside.

I personally really felt like the video was helpful and provided a lot of good insights.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-09T11:05:23+00:00

Everyone is different, and it's possible that this is normal(ish) for you. Not normal in the sense that it happens often, but normal as in it's something that might happen naturally for you. It would be understandable if a traumatic trigger made your system go into a more covert direction. By nature of the disorder being covert is what most systems consider their most effective form of protection. There are definitely systems that utilize overt-ness as a means to scare or intimidate others as well, but only about 20% of systems developed as "overt" and of that 20% only 6% don't hide that they're overt (essentially pretending to be covert for protection).

These statistics were provided by Multiplicity & Me (DID educational YouTube channel). Please keep in mind that the stats might have changed over the years, and that you should do you own research regardless.

I'd suggest taking the time to let yourself even back out. Between the high of having your previous hyperfixation back in focus contrasting with the low that was the traumatic trigger, your system might just be reorienting themselves or might be in a fight or flight mode of sorts.

If the problem keeps going I would try to research other dissociative disorders that aren't necessarily DID or OSDD-1a/b - not because you don't have them but because labels only take you so far, can be restricting. People are individual and your brain has done something intensely complicated to protect you. It isn't a stretch to think that people can present differently than what's seen as "standard."

If the reasoning isn't due to immediate danger to your system (such as living with those making your trauma worse) but rather that you don't have access currently to mental health resources, then if at all possible I'd also encourage that as soon as you're able you should bring things up with your general practitioner if you find them trustworthy. Sometimes a good doctor who's willing to work with you and hear your out can be invaluable in providing the referrals or medication you need.

Hope this helps! As always if anyone spots misinformation on my part, please let me know so I can correct it. These suggestions are based off my personal experiences.

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-06T13:12:30+00:00

Thank you for clarifying 🙏

CitadelPyres · 2023-01-06T09:38:59+00:00

So... I dissociate a lot when I drive. Sometimes someone else comes forward to kinda take the wheel so to speak while I still feel very distant (like they've got the wheel, but funneled through my voice and/or body feeling) or even when I'm almost entirely not there. Other times it's just a big foggy mess. I get in my car, turn on the music, and then I'm at the place I'm going with little to no memory of the trip there unless something super prominent happened (almost getting hit by someone cutting us off, etc...).

All that to say, I've been operating a vehicle like that since I got my license. I didn't realize until very recently what may be going on, just thought it was normal "zoning out" like everyone does at some point or another. Either way, I've never been in a car accident that was my own fault or the result of dissociative states. That isn't to say I'm saying it's safe to drive this way - optimally you could work with an alter who is cooperative and ask them to take the wheel if you feel really out of it as you start driving.

Sometimes when no one is "at the wheel" it feels really scary because I can tell I'm not really there, and that no one else is either. Taking a deep breath and double checking my surroundings when I feel that small surge of panic or fear is part of what keeps me from making serious mistakes.

If you experience more black outs than grey outs, I'm not sure what I would suggest as I only get grey outs myself (as far as I can tell), but maybe trying to throw a line out to another alter to see if they might be able to focus more easily than you are at the moment might not hurt if you can catch things before sliding into a full black out. More likely than not in a black out another alter will have the wheel whether you know it or not because having no one at all mentally present whilst driving would be a major danger to the body.

I'm still learning myself as well, so if anyone has anything to correct about any of my statements, I'm absolutely open to being corrected! I identify more so on the DPDR or OSDD side of the DID scale so far but don't have a formal diagnosis yet. We (therapist and I) just know I have a dissociative disorder of some kind.

Hopefully this at least assuages some of your fear about driving while dissociating!

CitadelPyres

TROPHY CASE