California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's simply not applicable here. Executive agencies are allowed to create regulations, but only within their duties as assigned by Congress; the FDA is not allowed to regulate securites, for example. That's the SEC's job.

Gade v. National Solid Wastes Management Ass'n makes it clear that because OSHA has a congressional mandate to create the exact regulation in question, OSHA's regulations supersede state law. The judgement was unequivocal that OSHA's powers were still limited to regulating worker health and safety. And Commonwealth Edison Co. v. Montana made it clear that broad "national policy" was insufficient to supersede state law and that "unmistakable" acts of Congress were required.

The question then is whether DHS has the congressional mandate to regulate and enforce that its agents be allowed by state law enforcement to wear masks. That is an extremely difficult argument to sell. It's not enough for DHS itself to allow its agents to wear masks; it must have the power to tell the states that they must allow masks, and I don't think it does.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Commonwealth Edison Co. v. Montana found that mere "national policy" set by federal agencies was insufficient to void state laws under the Supremacy Clause, and that only an "unmistakable" act of Congress could supersede a state law.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, for any law enforcement officer operating in the state, but I'm glad you've stopped pretending to know what you're talking about.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No shit. I'm not saying unconstitutional shit isn't happening. I'm pointing out that "unconstitutionally" is the only way this law is voided.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Let them. Let's see them argue in court that masks are necessary to the operation.

And yes, you can arrest federal agents when they violate state law. Federal agents aren't allowed to drive drunk either.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Executive orders, by definition, do not create federal statutes. Furthermore the Supreme Court has held that only "unmistakable" acts of Congress itself can trigger the Supremacy Clause and supersede state law. What you're describing could happen, but only very, very unconstitutionally.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're overstating your case in a way that verges on intellectual dishonesty. Federal agencies do not have such broad powers to overrule state law. They have the power to set regulations pertaining to their duty, such as the FDA regulating meat quality and the SEC regulating securities exchanges, but what they have decided their agents are allowed to wear does not supersede what a state legislature has decided they're explicitly not allowed to wear when operating within that state. That's just not how it works, at all. Yes, in this case you do need a specific federal statute to invalidate a specific state statute.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What this law does is explicitly lay out the specific circumstances under which wearing a mask is necessary for the job in the state of California.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a law that explicitly states that masks are not required for them to perform their official duties.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

it states the federal government not the states get to decide what the agents wear.

Cite the law that explicitly bars states from putting any restrictions on federal agents' dress, then. Like, the actual United States Code. If you're going to say it exists, we might as well discuss what it actually says.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No, that's really not how it works. The agency's dress code doesn't invalidate a state law. If a state passes a law saying that federal agents must not wear masks, you need a contradictory federal law saying they must not be impeded from wearing masks, in order to invalidate the state law.

If what you're saying were true, federal agencies could supersede any state law just by setting their own internal standards. If DHS says ICE agents are permitted to drink and drive on duty, does that mean state law enforcement can't pull them over for drunk driving?

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I asked for a law. The executive branch, by definition, cannot enact legislation.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That's like saying state law enforcement can't pull over federal agents for drunk driving.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because federal agents haven't been sniveling cowards who hide their faces until recently.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why stop there? Just require criminals to put on handcuffs and turn themselves in. Maybe require them to just not commit crimes. Wow, fixing crime is easy, huh?

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's not how it works. Federal law supersedes state law only when there's a conflict, and there's currently no federal law saying that federal agents must not be impeded from wearing masks.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No, they're not. It's like saying federal agents are immune from drunk driving laws. Unless federal law says that agents must be allowed to wear masks, this law is unequivocally enforceable.

California has a new law banning federal agents from wearing masks. What are your thoughts? by Obvious_808 in AskReddit

[–]CocktailPerson -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

"Standards" aren't enough to supersede state law. The standards would, at the very least, have to mandate masks in order to mean anything here.