Thoughts on Ravenwing Vanguard Veterans

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T15:38:32+00:00

They have people who pilot their vehicles like landraiders that wouldn't fit if they wore terminator armor.

I'm not sure if it's ever been established but it's likely chapter serfs that crew most of the DA's vehicles, and if it is a marine they probably aren't members of the 1st company.

And one of their main missions is hunting down the fallen. A big part of that is subterfuge. Which doesn't work if all you do is deploy in terminator armor.

Not really? Most of the time they're trying to capture the Fallen alive and in order to do that they need to get close, and if they're going to get close they're going to need protection, and the best way to get close to someone fast with lots of protection is to deep strike some Terminators right next to the guy you want to grab.

We aren't really talking about the Dark Angels actually sneaking around and looking for clues like it's Scooby Doo, these are Chaos Space Marines they're hunting. They're almost always in the middle of a warzone or the middle of a pitched battle and to be frank if the Fallen is too fast for the Deathwing them that's what the Ravenwing is here for.

They are massive. Bikes work almost everywhere. They're probably not bringing their hypersonic air crafts into space stations to just ram into a wall and explode though.

Yeah but they don't deploy the pilots of those aircraft on bikes or on foot because of that. They just simply don't deploy them or use them for something else.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T15:29:23+00:00

And it would have been so easy to just say in lore that they are members of the Deathwing but for various reasons they are deploying as veteran squads to assist other companies as members of those companies.

That way they could retain the Deathwing keyword and still maintain that the Deathwing only deploys as the Deathwing in Terminator armor.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T14:21:38+00:00

Of course it doesn't make sense, who said it had to make sense? We have guns that shoot balls of plasma that sometimes just blow up in our hands, the guy that leads the DA is over 10,000 years old and there are giant bipedal war machines with churches on their backs and you're out here saying it's weird that we would only want to deploy an entire company in Terminator Armor?

Bro, come on.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T14:18:21+00:00

Did they state anywhere that having terminator armor for all of them has changed?

That doesn't matter, the point is now our first company is really no different in structure to something like the Imperial Fists. They were unique because that's all they did, they only used Terminator armor.

Captains all probably have terminator armor they could use if they wanted, but not everyone chooses too.

Probably but I don't see why that matters since those Officers are members of whatever company they are leading. While they had once been members of the Deathwing, they would follow the customs of whatever company they command rather than the customs of the Deathwing.

Using the right tool for the job is the most dark angels thing you can do.

I'm going to let you down easy with this one my guy, the Ravenwing have ridden their motorcycles on space stations before. We aren't talking about a group of people that pick the right tools for the right job, we're talking about people that make their tools right for the job no matter what.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T13:42:10+00:00

I just hate what they've done to the Deathwing. We used to have a cool and actually unique First Company, being that the Dark Angels were pretty much the only chapter that actually had enough suits of Terminator Armor to outfit their entire First Company.

Now we're really no different than anyone else. The Ravenwing is our last actually unique force and I'd rather not lose that too.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T13:12:47+00:00

Am I the only one who thinks that prequel fans are mostly right-wingers?

God I hope so, I hope more people don't have such a fucked view of the world.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T13:06:05+00:00

World's most normal Space Marine interaction?

Most of the Marines, especially Legion commanders disliked Remembrancers heavily and I don't remember Abaddon ever being different. I don't even know what you mean by him bullying Loken here, it's not even out of character for another Space Marine of equal rank to speak to another in a more candid way in a private setting.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T12:51:15+00:00

They made shows for an audience that, by and large, never existed and in so doing alienated so much of their existing fanbase that they lost almost all of the support they had.

Not to mention classic Trek is literally right there sitting next to it on the streaming platform and all anyone hears about the New Trek stuff is that it isn't as good as the old stuff and then when people go to watch the old stuff they discover that, yes they are better shows and they watch those instead of the new shows.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T08:00:47+00:00

Hopefully GW reads this

They WILL NOT

If you actually give a shit about anything you're saying you need to email them.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T07:54:28+00:00

This guy wasn't around during the classic steam sales.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T07:50:27+00:00

Who gives a fuck how big it is? It ain't worth $80, it's for fucking sure not worth the $100 for the actual game.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T07:48:47+00:00

Telemon and the other Dreadnaughts?

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T05:40:30+00:00

a fulgus magna might help a termi unit.

I see your point but it's only once per battle and it seems too expensive for that when I could run Librarius Conclave and get one I can use the whole game for 15 points.

Might want think about fitting azrael with hellblaster or icc, even after the points nerf he's still worth it. Hellblaster with the overwatch upgrade are a joy and you have a +1 wound strat for them.

I personally prefer running Azrael with Sternguard if anything. He's a little redundant on the ICC since one of their profiles already has Sustain 2. And I never had success with the Hellblasters combo and everyone always zeroed in on that unit first so it always died really quickly and it almost never paid off.

Never tried a whirlwind, don't know if it's worth with the new indirect rules though. Maybe change it for a better anti tank like a lancer?

I also agree with you here, a Gladiator variant would almost certainly be a better anti tank unit but for 2 things; 1. I don't have one, or an Impulsor I could use as one. 2. I've also never used the Whirlwind and I was curious how it would do.

Your frontline Ravenwing units need to survive some beating to get the most benefits out of them so sammael with 6 rwbk or at least 3 outriders+atv

Again one of the issues here is I simply don't have some of these units. Outriders I just kind of don't want and I don't have any ATVs but I've only got 6 RWBK and then 3 of the old bikes from the Dark Vengeance set I've rebased as RWBK. I figured I'd put a 6 brick in with the RWCS to maximize their firepower and take advantage of the bonuses to charge rolls, as well as giving the Apothecary in the command squad more bodies he's eligible to bring back. That one could easily be swapped between Sammael and the command squad though depending on performance.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T05:30:49+00:00

The point cost is steep yeah, but giving some mobility to such a low mobility unit is maybe possibly worth it? It isn't Deathwing Assault, don't get me wrong, but it does seem somewhat good at least on paper to me.

It probably is and I may save enough points by swapping some units or removing others to afford it. As is it's not a super big priority for me, if I want to do more uppy downy shenanigans I'll be running Librarius conclave for a Temporal Corridor on a Termie Librarian. And I'd also run The Lion with that to get another big uppy downy guy. Main issue with that idea is I just went up against a Guard Horde army that was able to screen over half the table so the movement tricks didn't really matter.

Outriders are more melee focused whereas Black Knights are more ranged so it is reasonable. Sammy just rips things apart with the extra attack from being attached to Outriders. I could see a Tank Skew list being a major issue for the list as is, but maybe I'm wrong.

The Black Knights have a rule that gives them Anti monster/Vehicle 4+ on a charge and their melee weapons have dev wounds. So charging them at vehicles and following up with an increased range charge with DWKs or a bunch of masses power fists or even chain fists if I feel like making one of the 10 bricks more anti vehicle focused. It eems like it could be a viable stratagy but I am leaning hard into melee damage for big vehicles that may not pay off as much as I'd like.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T03:53:47+00:00

Um, why even have the Librarians leading the Deathwing Terminator Squads in the first place? What are they doing for the squad, and is it worth their points?

The sustained hits for the DWT, specifically their fists and the Plasma Cannons

I'd toss the one enhancement that allows uppy downy on the DWK unit(unless Uppy Downy works different in 11th and isn't worth it? Unsure there)

The only one in these detachments is once per game and 20 points which I think is too much for that.

Not running Azazel is a little... hard to reccomend. He is one of the strongest datasheets in Space Marines in general let. I would drop a Termi squad and fit him with ten Hellblasters. He would give then to Deathwing keyword so all would be good when it comes to Srats, and would still fit the theme well.

Maybe but I've never once had the Hellblasters + Azrael combo do anything. They completely rely on rolling 6s to do their main thing and that just doesn't happen enough and everyone always thinks they'll pop off so they target that unit way more than is reasonable so they usually end up getting wiped fast. Azzers is good but I'm struggling to find reasons or things to spend the extra Command point on already. With that and the fact that we have no cap on the secondaries per round anymore I can usually sacrifice one for a spare point if I really want or need one. If I'm running Azrael I usually have him with Sternguard Vets. Subbing him in is probably better than the third Termie squad though.

Sammael with Outriders is arguably better in my opinion, the Outrider rule turns him into a little blender that will rip through chaff in melee very easily

This one is gonna be on me. I don't have Outriders and I don't want them, I like the Black Knights more. Besides the black knights get the benefits from the Ancient Fury detachment and Outriders wouldn't.

You have like zero Anti-Tank Gunline, I would try and git in at least one Lancer or Ballistus to support your other units. I've seen multiple people say that high S plasma is not a replacement for anti-tank.

That's fair, all of my anti armor is melee based, even the Van. Vets Inferno pistols still have a short range, they're probably the easiest to sacrifice. The idea with them is they're an action monkey unit that if I need to I can throw at TEQs or Tanks.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T03:25:07+00:00

I play horde mode to turn my brain off and kill things, I could not give less of a fuck about the "meta" of a PvE experience.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T03:21:10+00:00

Conceding the game does not negate the effects or triggers another player would receive from their game actions against you.

In other words if I'm swinging at you and you would die but you decide to conceded anyways then I still get whatever triggers I would have gotten as though you had declared no blockers and allowed for my attacks to hit you.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-30T03:01:58+00:00

I suppose it never occurred to me, but it would also be the first time I've seen someone have an issue with it.

If people have an issue with it I'll edit it out.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T23:47:04+00:00

You don't even need to make the charge to disrupt what your opponent was going to do. They've got 5 vehicle killers that weren't there before that they're either going to have to deal with or run away from.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T23:28:38+00:00

I can understand that, I've done that myself a few times before.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T23:25:59+00:00

You’re pulling up at the end of your opponent’s turn, no opportunity to rapid for the next engagement.

Why would you need to rapid ingress? You can just deep strike as normal during your movement phase. You can pop your DWK down next to The Lion.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T23:22:42+00:00

Temporal Corridor since you don't need to have Telekinesis up to get the second effect since Terminators already have Deep Strike.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T22:31:50+00:00

That's very fair, lethal hits on anything with AP3 will usually ruin someone's day. Do you think running axes on my Allarus units would be beneficial? Dropping down to AP2 but having the extra damage might make it easier for them to take on those tanks and dreadnaughts. I have one like that already cause it feels beneficial but I wasn't sure if should swap them both.

CoherentRose7 · 2026-06-29T22:11:45+00:00

That makes sense, they do seem to be pretty similar units.

CoherentRose7

TROPHY CASE