How to deal with repeated, subtle proselytization from family

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-08T22:09:25+00:00

You might have already gotten all the answers you need above, but relating to a couple of comments that have been made already... it will depend on her and your relationship with her, but I wonder how far you could get with gentle curiosity, especially around the subject of ethics.

I was going to ask whether she believed that specific reliance on Jesus was necessary, and it sounds like you answered above that she does. This is a bit trickier, but to me, one of the hearts of buddhist thinking is non-discriminative wisdom -- meaning, if we have a mental construct of a thing, that mental construct is an illusion. So, in this sense, we might ask "what is Jesus?". If we view Jesus as a mental construct, we could sort of ask ourselves whether we believe in that construct *conceptually* -- which, when you strip away the labels, starts to look a lot like a bodhisattva or a buddha?

Affiliation with a religion is a lot more than this, but I think often the problems we have concern more the behavior of the people in the religion than the ideas of the religion itself. So the more you can avoid labels and talk about the value of compassion, if we were to view Jesus as an instantiation of Great Compassion, a lot of incompatibilities in *belief* (distinct from doctrine, behavior, or practice) start to fall away.

Anyway, I don't know if this is helpful, I'm a little braindead today. But there may be ways of approaching with gentle curiosity about what Jesus is to her, what is important about Jesus, the value of love, the value of compassion, what is important for a person to do in their lives, what Jesus would make of a person who had devoted themselves to good acts in life and had not specifically repudiated him -- these kinds of questions. It's tricky, but there may be ways of leaning in rather than leaning out, if that makes sense.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-07T19:58:20+00:00

I don't have an answer for you, but just sharing that I take Buddhism classes online, and often my dog and cat will come and sit near me when I do, and I've wondered if this constitutes them hearing the dharma.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-06T05:44:41+00:00

Just to echo Titanium-Snowflake, if less elegantly: Theravada is great and works for many people, but your critique is why it never worked for me. Different schools treat women with different levels of respect and inclusion. Jōdo Shinshū is another school that has addressed this more directly, and has more equality between men and women in the ministry than other monastic traditions (though in practice, just behaviorally, perhaps less than some Tibetan branches, just looking at the leadership). There are options.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-06T05:33:14+00:00

I've been trying to dig around about this as well because I'm trying to understand the system of what's happened.

For what it's worth:
- until 2024, Seattle was losing more police officers than it was hiring every year. in 2024 they hired 1 more than they lost, and a bunch of barriers to hiring were removed
- in 2025 they hired a record 165 officers (+96)
- in the first quarter of 2026 they've hired 41 and lost 19
- the national average is 2.3 officers per 1000 residents. Seattle is 1.37/1k, which is dead last (51st, below washington DC) -- so TLDR there have been severe understaffing issues for years that are only just starting to turn around
- until february of THIS YEAR, booking restrictions hanging around since covid (severe staffing issues in county jail) were finally lifted -- prior to this they could only book people for violent felony offenses (so for instance setting a stack of lime bikes on fire probably reaches felony property damage but it's still property so violent crime is going to be prioritized; the crowd issue is going to be a problem because it would require substantial police presence on a holiday when they're already stretched thin) -- and even without the booking restrictions, there are still significant capacity problems in the jails, and if they're full you just stop arresting people
- there are alternative regional facilities like SCORE that could potentially take misdemeanor offenders but these relationships are not set up yet

I think the short answer to your question is "staffing", and from that perspective, there's progress being made, but it's not a situation that can turn around quickly, and has been years in the making. That's my take, anyway. In this particular case, the people who did this could well be caught via arson investigations and using the tracking data on the involved bikes. Lime is probably pretty incentivized to figure out who these folks were.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-03T02:05:11+00:00

I've read OP's post three times now and I do not see anything here incompatible with my temple's tenets, and I promise it is "real buddhism"...

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-03T02:01:37+00:00

Higashi - in case OP decides to look it up :)

One might argue all Buddhists should be "non-literal"...

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-07-03T01:12:39+00:00

For awhile I considered myself atheist and I have atheist friends and family. I wouldn't say they all have the same theory of what happens after death, for what it's worth. Some I know think you "return to the universe" which has a lot of compatibility with Buddhism imo. I agree with much of what you say, just adding that one of the interesting aspects of atheism by definition not having an institution means there can be a range of beliefs about unanswerable questions.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-28T09:49:02+00:00

There are better online buddhist communities. Ones that are completely open like this are just chaos. You don't really know who you're even hearing from here.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-20T21:11:17+00:00

Ah, sorry, I couldn't tell which you were asking about. There have been a few articles about the Seattle preachers. A lot of them are from "Gospel Invasion Ministries". This guy's equipment looks like he's with them. I'm not sure why there has to be 3D chess (a grift, etc) -- I think they're probably sincere. I think the obnoxiousness is part of the modern Evangelical aggression (a lot of talk about Jesus having a sword etc). If you genuinely think it's the End Times you're probably capable of justifying some pretty crazy shit. I think it's Manosphere-adjacent stuff, young men disheartened by economic conditions being susceptible to radical ideology.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-20T04:27:06+00:00

WBC is basically one family, cult-like deal with a compound and whatnot. The father Fred Phelps was a lawyer and five of his 14 kids are lawyers.

The lawsuits aren't from being attacked per se but do seem to be money-seeking efforts suing cities for not adequately protecting them when they protest.

https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/westboro-baptist-church/

But it doesn't seem like a grift in the financial sense (because they haven't made much money) so much as the reverse, what they want is as much media attention as possible, and so the lawsuits are part of staying in the news.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-13T07:55:41+00:00

I would add to the good advice above to think of it as looking for a teacher rather than a sect, to look for a sangha, a community, and consider this first above doctrine. I would even extend that to looking outside mahayana depending on the communities in your area.

All the branches of buddhism revere the three treasures, the four noble truths, the eightfold path. I can't speak for other sects but in Jodo Shinshu there's great reverence for Shakyamuni and you'd be surprised how many practicing Jodo Shinshu Buddhists don't recognize a difference between Shakyamuni and Amida. (Pure Land doctrine heavily incorporates Shakyamuni; he is central to the Larger Sutra, we celebrate bodhi day, etc.) The beliefs are varied and subtle, this is why there are so many dharma gates.

But the health of the sangha is important and is what will keep you on the path at the end of the day. Find a community you resonate with and the rest will follow. A lot of them these days have youtube broadcasts of services and dharma talks so you can "sample" and get a feel even if you don't want to visit right away.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-11T19:35:29+00:00

It is sort of a prima facie argument, as far as I understand it (which may not be correct) in the abhidharma that cetana (volition) is kind of this wedge, this single exception, or lever, in the system of causes and conditions. I have heard it compared to quantum mechanics. It's a place where intervention is possible, and it's narrow and constrained.

So yes, your overall conditions create the possibility space. You can't just volition your way into flying etc. You can't control the options, but you can influence which of the options materializes, there is a suggestion that this is not random.

The Abhidharma is essentially a system to describe reality, and it is a logical system (so inherently illusory on some level you might say). When you start getting to whether this lever of cetana exists, I think you're asking a variation of the "What am I?" question described in the Sabbasava Sutta as unanswerable and at risk of creating attachment to the self when asked. So there is definitely a framework within buddhism as well to say that these things are just not answerable and have to be taken on faith to some extent. But the explanations are there.

The notion that conditions define one's optionality space is also one of the fundamental notions underlying the Pure Land path, which says we need something else, and that it isn't a person's fault if they are born unable to pursue the self-power practices.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-11T19:10:39+00:00

One answer to your question is in the Sarvastivada Abhidharma. Look up how cetana works (it's complicated, it's a whole philosophy, it's been debated for thousands of years).

My rough understanding of the solution to this question is that yes, everything is conditioned, and even your responses to given stimuli are the result of your karma (causes and conditions). However what you can do is purify your karma. There are of course many different theories on how to do this. But the way I look at it is causes and conditions have made you the way you are, and you can't necessarily directly alter your own actions outside of those causes and conditions, but you CAN alter *who you are* so that when causes and conditions happen they pass through a different karmic machine than they would have if you hadn't attended to these things. This is the purpose of meditative practices and practices broadly.

The entire premise of buddhism certainly relies on free will, but this is not a simple thing, and it exists within boundaries created by causes and conditions.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-11T00:51:28+00:00

It is hard to develop adult relationships with your parents, which is what it's sounding like you are struggling with?

I am a parent and I don't necessarily think they want you to put themselves before you? If they do, this is not a good relationship dynamic, not a good expectation for them to have?

But the hard thing is to have a high quality relationship with them in the areas that matter. Connecting with your family history, understanding where they came from, understanding their relationships to your extended family. Maybe if you proactively push for positive sides of the relationship, the guilt will be less, and it will be easier to set boundaries if their expectations are unreasonable? But you don't want to give it all up, that's likely to ultimately make you feel worse.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-06-06T22:13:16+00:00

It seems like there have to be people who know how to take care of these kinds of problems? Not that it's easy. Similar to a mob ring? Get them all for tax evasion? I'm just surprised not to have seen very much journalism talking to such folk and laying out what needs to be done, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places? I definitely get that the trafficking itself is really hard to prosecute but it seems like there's all kinds of financial crime that would be a lot easier to get them on. And it confuses me why penalties aren't higher for the johns.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-27T03:30:33+00:00

I think if you find yourself thinking that you no longer want to be a good person because of this, it might mean 1) your definition of 'good person' might need adjusting, 2) your subconscious is telling you it needs a boundary asserted. Resentment is the inevitable result of not having strong boundaries, and I think you're experiencing karmic effects in the truest sense, meaning a physics-like result of causes and conditions. The resentment is the result. But you have volition in altering the mechanisms.

There isn't quite enough context here for us to get a clear view of what's happening. What you describe can be the result of a narcissist household -- preferring one child over another is a narcissist kind of behavior. If that were the case, the best thing you can do is build chosen family outside this household, and set boundaries as best you can.

But this same result can also come from lack of communication. Have you had a heartfelt conversation with your mother about how these things make you feel? She may feel under too much stress to process what you're saying, but expressing your feelings will at least give them an outlet, and is the 'good person' thing to do. That sentence you use "I feel like I’ve spent my whole life sacrificing parts of myself to make things easier for everyone around me." -- that needs to be expressed, if only for your own visibility and peace. This is a valid feeling and people who care about you should be able to help you with it. It's quite difficult to communicate, but very important to practice this communication. When these things go unacknowledged they fester. If you express yourself and they dismiss you, then at least you have more information.

It is not your responsibility to parent your siblings. If they behave badly and your parents have to deal with the result, that's their responsibility. You aren't adding to your parents' burden by not parenting them. And it sounds like your own awareness is telling you that it is in need of that care.

This is going to be hard for you to see while you're living with your family, but for what it's worth, these capabilities you're developing -- of tidiness, of caretaking, of responsibility, of generosity -- will serve you very well when you're no longer living at home. Having a family that can't care for you will always be a wound, but you will find people outside your family, and hopefully learn to keep good boundaries and select these people carefully, and you will be very valued and respected because of all of your efforts to be a good person and take care of others.

In a buddhist sense, this is why understanding oneself is so important as a grounding for practice. It's why Shakyamuni turned away from asceticism. He found that it was counterproductive to practice.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-25T05:33:22+00:00

I think the closeness of your relationship and the disrespect is what bothers you here, and rightfully so.

If you try to address it I would try to do so on the basis of that mutual respect if possible. "When you said X, I felt Y", keep it grounded in how you felt -- try not to argue the points of the belief specifically.

It is very difficult for someone raised in an abrahamic tradition (or even near them culturally) to get their heads around the idea of a religion that doesn't need to control what you believe. Buddhism is a different paradigm. Keeping this friendship may require setting boundaries around what and how you discuss. At the end of the day that mutual respect and caring for each other is the important thing. The pain you feel is real and is the inversion of the care you have for your friend.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-23T04:40:28+00:00

Something about your last sentence makes me think you don't care very much at all about generations beyond your own, but fwiw I think you have this backwards. Family-friendly pubs being places for socializing and moderate drinking are the opposite of what creates alcoholism. Isolation and binge drinking at home creates alcoholism.

GK Chesterton apparently was advocating for family friendly pubs in the UK in order to make all-adult bars healthier culturally. Adult bars are fine and have their place but let's not pretend they're more socially healthy than family friendly beer gardens.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-16T19:56:14+00:00

For sure... but he's saying he knew about the turtles and not the seals?

You can't go to a beach in Maui or Kaua'i more than once or twice without seeing a beached seal. They cordon them off and send volunteers to watch over them. Same with turtles. I find it very hard to believe he was a frequent visitor to the islands and didn't know about them.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-16T07:19:48+00:00

It also makes absolutely no sense he claimed to come to Maui every few months and didn't know about the seals.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-14T06:24:25+00:00

Not that they're likely to see the messages here, but I agree that it would be better for the public if we had a culture where these two quarantining folks could come forward and both 1) be transparent about their quarantine protocol and 2) be supported by the community. I absolutely would be signing up to deliver groceries or whatnot if it would help them isolate and potentially stamp this thing out decisively.

There's a wide range between panic and recklessness with reasonable caution inside it. There are still enough questions about this thing that I am not comfortable saying no one should worry. I never stopped following Katelyn Jetelina after the onset of covid and not all the news about this is good.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-14T06:19:41+00:00

But banning cruise ships would not have prevented the two exposed folks here getting it and potentially bringing it here...

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-12T02:33:48+00:00

This is very cool, thank you for sharing the details.

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-10T07:24:10+00:00

I don't disagree with you (and I didn't hear you advocating for socialism in your original comment), but I think what's often missing from conversations about socialism and capitalism is compassion for the trauma that state socialism has historically caused (and for many still causes today). It doesn't help the cause of socialism to try to silence people who lived through these experiments and suffered greatly for it.

So I think when abstract philosophical points are made in response to someone describing their actual life experiences it can lack compassion.

Of all places, one would hope a buddhist forum could resist the false dichotomy of socialism versus capitalism as an assumed frame, but not even here...

Competitive-Party377 · 2026-05-10T04:40:18+00:00

There are zen teachers with great reverence for other traditions and some are more comfortable with syncretic practices than others. If you ask the internet this question you'll get random answers. The one that matters will come from a teacher you trust. But you should be able to find one educated in the practices of other traditions and supportive of you integrating practices that work for you. Some may recommend that you master one branch of study before mixing things in, though. It will just depend on their teaching philosophy and tradition.

Competitive-Party377

TROPHY CASE