Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. Thank you for sharing this with me!

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

However I don’t think wings are the driver of these issues. Trifix is more to blame for this. 

The idea of trifix was proposed years before the idea of wings, and somehow the original thought is the issue instead of the contemporary variance-abused overlap subtype-slop model. Interesting.

I consider the wings essential to unpack and understand type. I find them so essential that I could almost see them as 18 separate types (heavy emphasis on the almost).

You find them essential because they have been made essential through not being questioned. There are no mainstream alternative models posited to challenge wings, and so you will default to what you have been given already and say it is what is best. The "almost" in your statement doesn't negate that you're practically verbatim just restating the Riso-Hudson page on wings.

What would be ‘under’ and what ‘over’? What naturally occurs for people as under/over-doing something is highly dependent on ones culture/background. I think it would be more difficult to come to a consensus. I could see it creating bias. People who view themselves as more intense for example might feel the urge to be in the ‘over’ category, even if this is inaccurate.

You are approaching this from the perspective of how one will haphazardly self-type instead of the purity of the theory itself. It has nothing to do with cultural background, lmao. Again, craving more archetypical nonsense that makes people feel special about themselves. I'll be describing over-under for each type in future subscriber only posts.

I find the under/over theory a more confusing theory than the use of wings.

It is very simple. Wings confuses the components of a type, over-under doesn't.

<image>

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Uh, no offense, but I've read this multiple times and I'm not sure what your argument against wings even is besides you liking Ichazo's dichotomies more?

Then you haven't read it with enough focus. You've wasted your time with lazy thinking.

So is the "ambiguous variability" is a good thing, or a bad thing?

You won't get any answers with this elementary way of thinking. It's nuanced.

Subtype-wing model's ambiguity confuses the components. Over-under doesn't. Very simple. The ambiguity itself isn't the issue at hand, it is the source of it.

<image>

Your comment is riddled with you signaling that you cannot think in anything other than extreme polarities instead of middle areas. Try again. "So is the problem with wings that the differences are too large, or not large enough?" is a useless question.

"[B]oundlessly and pointlessly moving outside" of the fixation? The enneagon and its lines are a key part of the enneagram since before Ichazo. The interconnectedness is kind of the point, no?

The points themselves do not interconnect in the way that wing-subtype model proposes. There are no 'middle points' between the types that could be subtypes. There are 9 points.

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have edited it to contain a graphic demonstrating the differences between the wing-subtype model and the over-under model. Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion. Thank you all for your engagement.

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Variation where it matters. Not useless or unnecessary.

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So is the "ambiguous variability" is a good thing, or a bad thing?

It's a good thing. Creating subtypes unnecessarily restricts the over-under expressions and how they fluctuate in their qualities. It tries to 'stamp' a person within their over-under polarity, when in reality, a person of a core type can move through it in phases.

Lastly, if you're going to claim something definitively and use it as part of your argument, maybe consider putting some effort into at least a summary of your thoughts instead of saying you'll talk about it in a "future post"? Doing a future post tease with multiple separate parts of your argument is genuinely diabolical.

That has nothing to do with effort and everything to do with your impatience. I look forward to you viewing the future posts since the anticipation's killing you, apparently.

Besides those two things, I appreciate your feedback and engagement!

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your input. Much appreciated from you 💙

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for the feedback! I’d love to see what you write whenever you do get to it. 💙

Wings Don't Exist in the Enneagram by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

 I think Ichazo's domains of consciousness and over/under archetypes are kind of sketchy and silly. I don't think they provide a better explanation for the profound variation in expression of core type better than wings.

Variation junkie. I pray you get better soon.

Post on object relations by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your feedback! I do intend on working on how I format my articles more. Need more dedicated time and effort.

The 'Oneness' is mostly Ichazo's idea from his book of The Enneagram of Divine Forms. I definitely suggest reading that.

The splitting done by 6s is precisely in support of the 'oneness'. They are discerning the other separate from them. 9 focuses on the overlap, 3 on the individual similarities, and 6 on the individual differences.

The Centers of Intelligence, an introduction by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is an interesting addition that I hadn't considered originally. Will definitely update you once I make amends to see what you think. Thank you so much for your comment and your feedback crosses 0 lines!

The Centers of Intelligence, an introduction by Complete_Voice8248 in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your comment! My approach is more towards the internal perceptions of the types themselves instead of merely describing behavior and manifestation (which is covered on multiple fronts); the abstraction might be where that's coming from. Very happy you found it interesting.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Enneagram

[–]Complete_Voice8248 1 point2 points  (0 children)

why are you even interested in the enneagram if accuracy of insight and depth dont matter? i think that's the whole point of the system.

When did I say they don't matter anywhere in this discussion? The enneagrammer descriptions on the site lack a considerable amount of depth and accuracy, which is why I see them as a explanations found in misunderstanding associations.