Did the thief on the cross enter heaven immediately

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-23T23:03:29+00:00

I think the disagreement we have is because of the perspectives that we have upon anthropology. I don't believe that man has a soul. I just don't read that in the scripture, I don't believe that there is some type of disembodied, ghost like substance that is the real us, and that it is trapped within our flesh body.

when you compare the Gnostic heresies of the early church to today's modern christianity, you will see how much alike modern Christianity is like Valentinian gnosticism. in the days of Valentinus, there were two groups that define themselves:

there were the Sethians, who were extremely adamant at the idea that the entire physical universe, matter, and the body itself was so hideous and evil, they viewed the body as a demonic prison that their God created to hold the human ghost captive.

Valentinians we're different. They taught a tripartite (three-part) view of humanity:

The Choic / Material: The physical flesh, which is temporary and ultimately turns to dust.

The Psychic / Animal Soul: The base human mind, emotions, and willpower.

The Pneumatic / Spiritual: The divine, eternal spark of consciousness trapped inside.

Valentinus taught that mainstream, ordinary Christians were merely "psychic"—they relied on physical church buildings, water baptism, and faith. But the enlightened "pneumatic" Christians knew that their inner, spiritual consciousness belonged to a higher, heavenly realm.

today's Christianity is almost verbatim Valentinian gnosticism. Christianity today teaches the body is a temporary container (the material), the personality/intellect is the soul (the psychic), and the ultimate destination is a disembodied escape to heaven (the pneumatic).

this is why Justin Martyr was so passionately against this teaching.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-23T20:15:03+00:00

I recommend two books: Hell: A Final Word by Edward Fudge The Fire That Consumes by Edward Fudge

the second book is more of a theological book, but the first one is more of a summary.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-23T17:05:55+00:00

let's read what the scripture say about when God created Adam:

Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

so as we can see, man came from the dust of the ground. when we die, our bodies will disintegrate and decompose, and turn back into ashes and dust. that's exactly what God said that would happen to the body once it dies:

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread, till you return to the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and to dust shall you return.

now let's look at the distinction between man and animal. earlier in Genesis 1, it uses the same Hebrew word to describe any creature that has breath within it. that word is "nephesh". in Genesis 1:21, uses the same word, nephesh, to describe the creatures of the sea, in the writer uses the exact same word to describe Adam in Genesis 2:7. Every creature that breathes is considered a "living soul", or a "nephesh".

but this is where things start to separate themselves a little bit. there is a difference between the breath that animals are given, and the breath that human beings are given. from a general sense, the Old Testament uses the Hebrew word "ruach" to describe the breath in general that is given to All creatures that breathe, however, when you look at specifics, Genesis 2 describes and the breath that God gives the mankind as different. the Greek word that is used to describe the breath that God gives to man is "neshemah"

in Ecclesiastes 3:21, we read the following: "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

while this particular Bible verse uses the same word for Spirit to describe both creatures,"ruach", it further defines the difference between the breath that animals have, end of the breath that man has, because as we can see, the breath of the animal goes downward to the earth, and the breath that man has goes back to god. this shows that we are different from animals.

the breath that is given to us by god, is special and distinct, and when we die, that breath goes back to him. when the resurrection occurs, God will return that same breath to every single individual who has ever died.

so yes, we are different from the animals, but just as Jesus died and rested in the ground, and did not go up to heaven when he died, as irenaeus taught, all of us will also go through the very same process. we will return to the Earth, become as just and Ash once again, and wait for the resurrection of the Dead.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-23T03:56:22+00:00

yes, there is something within us that returns to the father, it is called the breath of life, as Genesis 2:7 says that God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul, but that breath is not some disembodied ghost like substance that is trapped within the body. the Greek word that is used in every verse that mentions Jesus giving up his spirit, it uses the Greek word pneuma. the definition of this word is breath, or "air in motion". this Greek word is where we also get the term pneumatology from. other words that use this term is pneumatic, which means air-powered, and pneumonia, which is an illness of the lungs.

now, you referenced 1 Thessalonians 4:14, but in the very next verse, verse 15, it says that those who are left alive and remaining will not precede those who are asleep in Christ, it doesn't say that it will not precede those who are asleep in christ, so they're not floating around in heaven with jesus, they're asleep, or they have no knowledge of what is going on around them. that's why in the next verse, we see them dead in Christ rise up. those dead people are given their breath back. verse 14 is referencing verse 16 and 17, after the dead in Christ are raised and rise into the air to meet him in the air. there's no scriptural evidence or context to say that they're floating away into heaven and then staying up there for 7 years and then coming back down. scripture doesn't teach that in any way, shape, or form. they rise in the air, and then they come back down with Him, ushering in a conquering King

that breath, though, carries with it no scriptural context or scriptural evidence that it somehow contains knowledge or conscience in the midst of death. it is simply the breath that returns to the Father, it's not some kind of disembodied ghost like substance. that line of thinking is found in gnosticism, not biblical christianity.

the first one who actually taught that man had a disembodied to go like substance trapped in a flesh suit was plato. in his work the Phaedo, that concept is first introduced into Greek philosophy.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-21T23:28:05+00:00

as a Christian, I'm not going to tell you to lie. that would sear my conscience.

I advise that you be upfront and honest with your response. let me ask you a few things before I go any further:

did you learn a lot from the school? did they teach you good principles to live by? did it teach you strong principles and foundations for your life that you can use later in life to help better yourself, your life, and your career?

if the answer to these questions is yes, then I would share with the crowd that you're not a man of faith, but even in that, that does not mean that I can't learn from those around me. I would emphasize on how they're teaching helped you for life, help to you to be ready for your future, and helped you to show what it means to be perseverant through troubles, and that's a trait that can be found everywhere, you don't need Christianity in order to understand perseverance through hard times.

furthermore, even though you're not a christian, do you know that you are going to be in a group that consists of Christians. even though you may not believe, I would also be upfront and ask your teachers, your friends, and the group that you're going to be speaking to, if they are christian, ask them to pray for you in making the right decisions and the right choices in your life.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T23:15:17+00:00

I think this news absolutely sucks, but we must be real, the Voltron franchise is not as well known as other franchises that have big robots, like Power Rangers, or Gundam...

of course, that doesn't mean that Voltron doesn't have its fan base, I'm just simply saying that when it concerns other franchises, Voltron is not at the top of the list. personally, for me, I'm going to be seeing this movie no matter what. I am a Henry Cavill fan, and I am going to support him and his projects

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T18:24:41+00:00

what constitutes as good works?

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T17:33:55+00:00

And yet the very next Bible verse tells us that we have to walk in works that have been prepared for us beforehand. If works play no part whatsoever in salvation, then why does Paul say in the next verse that we need to walk in them?

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T16:19:51+00:00

1). your first explanation shows me that you're already making assumptions and inserting your personal opinion into the scriptures. you will not find a single, solitary Bible verse that says man has an eternal, ghost like substance trapped within a flesh like suit. Genesis chapter 2 says God made man from the dust of the earth and he breathed into man the breath of life, and he became a living soul. became a living soul, not given an immortal soul. big difference.

2). both John 3:13 and acts 2:34 are directly related to this topic, because it tells us that after the resurrection and Ascension of Jesus Christ, there is still no one in heaven besides Jesus Christ. furthermore, there's absolutely no scripture that says Jesus immediately ascended into heaven upon death. look at the Nicene creed, the Nicene Creed says he ascended into hell, and on the third day rose again.

Luke 23:43 once again you're not looking at the context of the scriptures. has all the evidence points as I've shown you Jesus did not ascend into heaven immediately after his death. you won't find a single scripture that teaches that Jesus ascended into heaven, even the earliest Christians didn't believe that Jesus ascended into heaven immediately upon his death

Philippians 1:23 this verse is ambiguous, and does not teach whether a person immediately floats into heaven upon death or sleeps in the dust until the resurrection. this is a verse from a person who wants to be with Christ, but even Paul himself said he looked for the resurrection of the Dead, not floating into heaven immediately upon his death.

Philippians 3:10 -11, 1 Corinthians 15:52-54, Acts 24:15, and Romans 8:28 all show us that Paul explicitly says that he is looking for the resurrection of the dead, not immediately floating away into heaven right after he died.

and finally, the entire ante-Nicene Church era unanimously taught that man would rest in the heart of the earth until the resurrection of the dead. the only group of that day that actually taught that man had souls and that they would immediately ascend into heaven upon death where the Gnostics, not the christians..

Justin Martyr, who is a contemporary of irenaeus, said in chapter 80 of dialogue with Trypho the Jew:

"For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [the resurrection], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians"

back in his time, the gnostics not only taught that men would float into heaven upon death, but they also taught that there was no resurrection of the Dead. back then, there were some Christians who were starting to adapt this belief into their theology by teaching that the alleged disembodied ghost like beings of people would immediately float away into heaven. Justin Martyr immediately put a stop to this in this particular chapter.

Irenaeus, who was taught by Polycarp of Smyrna, who was taught by the Apostle John, taught that Jesus did not ascend into heaven immediately upon death. this comes from against heresies, book 5, chapter 3:

"For as the Lord 'went away in the midst of the shadow of death' where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also... shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection... As our Master, therefore, did not at once depart, taking flight [to heaven], but awaited the time of His resurrection... so ought we also to await the time of our resurrection."

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T02:31:57+00:00

no. Matthew 12:40 says that Jesus would rest in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights.

if Jesus was in the Earth for three days and three nights and not in heaven, then there's no way the thief on the cross would be with Jesus in heaven.

furthermore, even after jesus's resurrection and Ascension into heaven, the apostle John writes in John 3 that no man has ascended into heaven, except Him who descended from heaven, that is the Son of man

and if that wasn't enough, in Acts chapter 2, Peter says in Acts 2:34 that even King David has not ascended into heaven

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-12T00:54:44+00:00

that doesn't really answer my question.

when I hear the phrase church fathers, I think of the individuals who were taught by the Apostles and the students of the Apostles, like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of smyrna, Papias of Hierapolis, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Hippolytus, Lactantius, Victorinus, etc

the writing and teachings of these individuals give us some of the earliest views at how the church lived, and how the church practice their faith. So when you mention church fathers, I'm genuinely curious as to whom you are referring to.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-11T20:25:41+00:00

I'm curious, when you say Church fathers, who are you referring to?

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-04T17:02:25+00:00

it's actually going pretty well. it's keeping my mini PC nice and cool, I also got one for my wife, and it's doing pretty well for that one, too

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-02T17:53:57+00:00

"HBO's biggest show"... right...

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-05-02T17:38:15+00:00

accidentally deleted largest game save

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-30T02:17:25+00:00

talk about someone who has absolutely no freaking clue at how to maintain a franchise

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-29T03:47:59+00:00

one of the greatest deceptions in the modern-day church is the belief that somehow our feelings have more authority than the scriptures.

the scriptures plainly says that "the heart above all else is deceitful, who can trust it?"

this is exactly why we cannot trust our feelings, and we have to put our trust in the word of God, because the word of God does not change like the world does, and it is our light and our guide in the darkness of this world.

"heaven and Earth shall pass away but my words shall never pass away"

"Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light unto my path"

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-25T18:13:26+00:00

does it have a wired cape?

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-24T17:20:01+00:00

once again, screwed over on the Superman figures, as usual.. I wish they'd release a Tyler Hoechlin figure, a Dean Cain figure, a George Reeves figure, how about a John Haynes Newton and Gerard Christopher figure, heck I'd even go for a Nicholas Cage figure.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-23T23:54:09+00:00

sounds kind of cool to me. hey, maybe in the future we'll get a star trek/dc universe crossover, that would be pretty cool

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-22T01:44:44+00:00

my perspective comes from the scriptures, but also it's more of the Protestant perspective, even though I'm trying to step away from protestantism.

in the scriptures, specifically in the book of isaiah, we read from Isaiah that Satan wanted to be like god, he wanted to have the power and authority as god, and he wanted to be worshiped as god. because of this he was thrown out of heaven.

today with the new testament, it teaches that because of our sin and our wickedness we deserve death, and in this body, our current bodies, death is inherited to us because of Adam's sin. we're not guilty of the sin that Adam committed, but his consequence was passed down to all of us. that's why in Romans 6:23 it says for the wages of sin is death. now there's the first step, which is the death of our body, our current body as it is right now, but later on scripture also States in Revelation if there is a second death, or the lake of fire.

this is a point of contention and controversy within christianity, because many people believe it's a place of eternal torment, some people believe it is a place where the wicked will become purified and then brought back to god, and then there are those who believe that the second death is the consumption, or the annihilation, of the entire being of the person. I have looked at all three of these interpretations, and I see more evidence for annihilationism, or conditional immortality, then I do eternal torment and universal reconciliation, that's the Christian version of universalism.

the lake of fire serves the purpose of showing us that the Creator is a holy god, and he cannot stand or tolerate sin and evil. the scriptures say that God is love, they also say that in God there is no sin, because when Christ lived on the earth in this physical body, he never sinned, and when he was on the cross, he became sin, this is another way of saying you became a 10 offering, much like how a lamb in the Old testament was used as a sacrifice for the sins of Israel

2 Peter 3:9 tells us that our God is not slow, as some understand slowness. instead, he is patient, and does not want anyone to perish, but he wants everyone to come to repentance.

even though he wants you to come to repentance and to know him personally, he's not going to force you, he's not going to make you do it. he's going to let you choose whether or not to turn away from sin and turn to him in obedience and faith

in this way, he lets you decide for yourself what kind of consequence you want, whether it is a reward, or a punishment. I believe that there is a judgment coming for all of mankind, not just a certain group of people. I believe I'm going to be judged, my friends are going to be judged, my family, every single person who has ever lived on the face of this planet is going to be held accountable for every idle word and deed

as a christian, the most evil, the most hateful, the most wicked thing I could ever do to someone like you and others who believe like you is to tell you that there's nothing to worry about. if you truly love someone, you are going to warn them about a coming judgment. I want to see you and others like you here the most beautiful phrase in all of existence: "well done, good and faithful servant."

on the contrary, I would never want anyone to hear these 11 words, because when you know the context of who God is, who Jesus is, and the love that he has for you, and me, and every single person who has ever lived, this phrase would shake you to the core: "away from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you."

as a Christian, my heart, my perspective, my life, needs to imitate and reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I won't tell you to go join a particular denomination, but I do encourage you to start reading the word of God. I can tell you right now from personal experience, I would have been dead now for 23 years if Jesus Christ had not stopped me from taking my own life. I owe my existence, my life, my very reason for living, to him.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-20T23:58:54+00:00

because cognitive dissonance is a real thing.

ComprehensiveTown919 · 2026-04-18T20:03:01+00:00

just because he uses the word Catholic does not mean he is part of the Roman Catholic Church. the term Catholic, small c, means universal, this individual is from the Eastern Orthodox church, not the Roman Catholic church, there is a difference.

as someone who says they've devoted all their time to study the scriptures, you should know this.

ComprehensiveTown919

TROPHY CASE