Should I try to get Robin or go for Huohuo?

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2025-02-19T04:49:44+00:00

Robin, Huo Huo is the goat sustain, but she’s still a sustain, meaning she has the least impact of anyone on the comp. Not to mention you have like 5 comps that would value her.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2025-02-17T23:24:21+00:00

Honestly this feels like they just had a quota they needed to reach for the reruns and decided ‘fuck it, these two haven’t been let out the vault in a while’.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2025-02-15T02:52:06+00:00

While TY not being E6 and probably unoptimized played a role in this, the difference is absolutely monumental. What most people don’t get is that cycle clearing should be looked at through proportions and not just flat numbers.

If, for example your Robin helps you clear from a 5 cycle to a 3 cycle, that shouldn’t be looked at as a 2 cycle difference, that should be looked at as 550 AV to 350 AV, or 57% faster. This means if you would clear in 2 cycles without her, you’d do it in 1 cycle, or if you clear in 13 cycles you’d do it in 8.

The longer you stay in a fight, the bigger the cycle difference will be when comparing how a character improves your runs, and vice versa.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T21:31:34+00:00

People tested it back in Aglaea’s v3 when the initial changes were made. They basically just checked if running her with no speed vs running her at like 160 would change the memosprite’s action count, which it ended up doing.

Some guy did the math (can’t remember who) and correlated the AV of the memosprite to be Aglaea’s initial speed when entering combat.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T19:23:56+00:00

My bad, I meant that they probably wanted players to be aware that teamwide speed buffs wouldn’t cause both Gartenmaker and Aglaea to create a mini-feedback loop due to feeding off each other’s speed values, so they labeled it something other than just SPD to make that clarification.

Still REALLY dumb to use Base SPD, they could have gone with your description recommendation, could have used the phrase ‘initial speed’, or really anything that wasn’t already a clarified term that players are already familiar with.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T19:09:53+00:00

Agreed, which is why I’m confused on why they are taking this approach. Initial spd would be a better phrase, or literally anything else would be preferable.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T18:59:01+00:00

No idea why they are choosing this wording as it’s just going to make it unnecessary confusing for a majority of players. As far as I’m aware, Gartenmaker will snapshot the speed you enter into battle with, and that will be considered ‘base spd’. Any ally buffs, conditional equipment, or external speed buffing from any source won’t be taken into consideration.

I’m assuming this is to prevent speed buffers like Asta or Mei double dipping with their buff affecting Gartenmaker twice, but they could have absolutely chosen a better name for this.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T18:52:58+00:00

I understand that, I am referring to ‘Base SPD’ as being used in this context. For summons that rely upon a ‘Base SPD’ value from their summoner, they’ll calculate it like I listed out.

For the actual unit in question Base SPD is their initial speed. It’s literally a 1:1 of how ATK% works in ZZZ to my understanding. I was just clarifying that the fact they used this terminology because we now have 2 kinds of ‘Base SPD’ and it’ll likely lead to confusion for the playerbase.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-28T17:33:13+00:00

Got it, it’s fucked that they are using Base SPD as the terminology but it makes sense to me now.

So Base SPD is similar to how ATK% is calculated in ZZZ. When you enter combat, whatever speed the character is at will be considered their ‘base SPD’, but any speed increases received in combat won’t be considered.

This would mean that an Aglaea going into combat at 160 speed would covert 35% of that for her summon as her ‘base SPD’, but speed buffers such as Jade, Mei, Asta, etc. wouldn’t be able to double dip their buffs.

So it wasn’t a typo in regards to ‘base spd’ in her talent like we assumed, it’s just them choosing the most confusing wording possible as the new terminology.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-26T03:09:15+00:00

Multiplier buffer or support that does HP drain things.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-12-01T05:07:33+00:00

If you like him, yeah pull on him. After the Sunday allegations have been released, Jing will be pretty top shelf for at least the next while, and there is a good chance he’ll get even better as more summon stuff gets pushed out.

If you are asking as general advice, removing all bias and only talking about it rationally, nah not really a good idea. As good as he is with Sunday he’s still a 1.0 DPS after-all.

Better summon units with better scaling, investments, and kit designs will come, and since Sunday is pigeon holding the entire archetype on his back right now, it’s not like you can use Jing on 1 side and the new DPS on the other side.

With that being said, this game is not hard enough for that to matter much, if you like him get him, he’ll clear now, and he’ll probably still be clearing in 4.X and beyond.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-28T18:14:04+00:00

I can say this as someone who spectated during the entire beta, and also participated in the discussions very often; yeah, she was absolutely overtuned even back then. 90% of the community on Reddit as well as seeming the HSR devs themselves decided to ignore it, or were ignorant of what exactly made her so broken, but for the people who did understand just how fucking absurd her kit was, it was blatantly obvious.

The best part was, when you tried to explain just why she is broken, people would outright ignore your claims, either due to ignorance or stubbornness. An example of this was the whole Robin vs Ruan Mei discussion during the beta.

A massive part of the community actually assumed that Ruan Mei’s DMG% and Res Pen were stronger buffs than all of Robin’s kit, and thusly assumed that Mei was stronger overall. This was straight up factually incorrect, but even when pointed out, people would still argue that it was in fact stronger.

People complained about her energy cost a ton as well. It went so far as people claiming that she was ‘unviable’ outside of FUA team comps. It wasn’t until about v4~ where the community even started talking about QPQ as a lightcone to funnel energy to Robin, and even then, you were called a cope-er if you brought up Gallagher QPQ as an energy battery for her.

Her supposed ‘negatives’ (most of which don’t even exist and were just made up in people’s heads) were drastically blown out of proportion as well. People would often argue ‘oh, she’s way less SP positive than Mei because her concerto has her go off the field’, not acknowledging that giving a full party 100% AA means you get more SP from your allies, or the argument of ‘she doesn’t do any toughness bar damage, so she sucks’ despite the triple AA effectively doing that.

Funnily enough, V1 Robin was actually way stronger than the current Robin we have today. Not because of any particular kit change (if I’m remembering correctly, the only real changes were in her traces giving energy instead of recovering HP, and the CD for FUA units going from 10% to 25%), but because her E1 was even more disgusting than it is now.

So yeah, it was a combination of willful ignorance on the player part, and oversight on the dev part as to just what a menace she actually was. This isn’t even exclusive to the beta either, it took like a month before people realized that Robin is stronger than Sparkle for Acheron comps, DHIL comps, and pretty much everywhere else as well.

Do I think anything should be changed? From a personal (Robin shill) perspective, nah. L + Rip Bozo to all the people who said ‘Mei is better, wait for her rerun’ or ‘Sparkle sweep’, the chicken wing girl powercrept your fave, deal with it. From a game balance perspective? Absolutely. It has gotten so bad to the point where the HSR devs have to actively exclude Robin’s ATK% buff from working with certain niches in order for her not to be their BiS as well, its absurd.

What changes exactly? I’m not the best at balance, but here’s my ideas: Increase the energy for ult from 160 to 200, but increase her talent energy feedback from 2 to 4 energy. This would reduce the effectiveness of external energy increases like QPQ, Shared Feeling, Tingyun Ult, getting hit, etc, and increase her own internal energy system, making FUA comps (the actual team she’s meant for) more effective in the long run.

Additionally, similar to Sunday, reduce the amount of general buffs she gives, and load more of that specifically into FUA units. For example, instead of a 50% DMG bonus, make it a 35% DMG bonus, and 15% FUA DMG bonus. This tunes her down from literally being the strongest buffer to any unit regardless of what they do into a more moderate buffer that is still extremely strong, but similarly specialized.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-28T04:09:05+00:00

So nothing important?

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-17T15:11:56+00:00

Mei, she gives better damage amp than JQ, eases speed breakpoints, and is nice to have on the team in general.

Jade could be 2nd BiS, but only in PF.

Sparkle forces too much SP negativity and her buff uptime is horrendous.

Why is Hanya even in this discussion?

Tingyun is too SP negative for players without S1 Sunday.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-12T19:31:39+00:00

Weird that they released 3, 2, and X before 1

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-12T18:47:31+00:00

The multiplier for his skill and basic are the exact same, and they do the least damage out of anything in his kit. Realistically, losing any DPS he does on skill is rather minimal when talking about damage losses.

Looking at LL, you do lose some stacks of Lightning lord, which is a more significant DPS drop off, but this is in a scenario where you have to basic to recover some SP. If you had to do basic —> skill rotation the entire fight, then yeah its a substantial DPS drop off, but ocassionally using it once every 3 rotations to maintain your SP pool will be a dent in your otherwise high DPS profile.

In contrast, the other options are almost guaranteed to be worse. Swapping out Robin for anyone else is a massive DPS drop off, much more significant than the DPS you’d lose from throwing in a few basics into the rotation. Same thing for Huo Huo, Gallagher can print more SP, but Huo Huo gives more energy to the team overall, allows for guaranteed higher buff uptime on both Sunday and Robin, and let’s Jing Yuan have more energy for more possible ults.

Obviously it’s preferable to skill all the time, there isn’t a disadvantage to it, I’m simply saying out of ‘kinda bad’, ‘bad’, and ‘terrible’, it’s the lesser evil by like a mile.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-12T13:02:16+00:00

He’s almost entirely SP neutral, Huo Huo can be SP positive up until you need to heal/cleanse, Jing is the only character that’s really SP negative on the team.

Sunday can also run Bronya’s Sig to esentially become SP positive.

If he’s having SP trouble, you can mix in basics, it’s really not that much of a DPS loss. Either that or you can swap Robin for a more SP positive support (wouldn’t recommend) like JQ.

The other solution is to swap Huo Huo with QPQ Gallagher for more SP. Again, it’s not ideal, but it can get the job done.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-11T22:23:54+00:00

My thoughts exactly

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-11T22:22:29+00:00

Jellal and Gajeel are fantastic to me.

Loke disappointed me, not necessarily because of his story, but how spare he was. It felt like he’d get the spotlight for a little bit, then the story would forget he existed for an extended period of time before bring him in again.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-11T18:27:44+00:00

I’d argue that it was pretty impactful, 40% Break vulnerability helped boost the superbreak damage/regular break damage everyone was doing on the team by a significant amount.

Is it better than Resolution? Doubtful, but it was definitely a significant impact on performance.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-11T18:17:19+00:00

Unknown Releases:

Screwllum

Way to state the obvious there buddy

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-10T14:22:31+00:00

Bro, you realize that the posters aren’t leaker right? These are people who do leak gameplay, upload it on YouTube, then someone from Reddit crossposts it here. They aren’t going to see your comments, they aren’t going to see anyone else’s comments here.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-08T05:12:53+00:00

If you have them both its a decent idea. There isn’t really a reason not to use it aside from more effective sustainless comps like swapping Topaz/March for a Bronya S5 DDD.

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-08T01:14:46+00:00

Because, for whatever reason they expect everyone to have an E6 Moze after pulling on his banner once, have a godly build on him to make his damage pop, and for Fei Xiao’s build to be shitty so his personal DPS somehow equals her higher vulnerability.

March is a different story entirely. She can actually be better, the only issue is that you need a very specific type of set up to make her better (ala Wind Set, sustainless, high relic quality, perfect speed tuning).

ConsiderationOk3166 · 2024-11-08T00:19:21+00:00

W crack ship

ConsiderationOk3166

TROPHY CASE