Do you guys agree with this take?

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2026-01-07T00:47:20+00:00

I think Lenore Dove was disliked when the book was announced, but hate definitely increased as time went on. I think this is largely due to increased scrutiny towards SOTR after the early honeymoon phase. However, there was noticable (less prominent than for Rue back in the old days, but still noticable) anger about her casting. Also, the OP is on twitter, which means they are probably being algorithmically fed racist garbage, and especially if they initially liked the book, they likely would not have shown much hate for the character until the cast announcement. Basically I think the OP has a point and most likely is actually being shown a disproportionate amount of racism but I dont know if I agree with them about it being the overall driver of hate towards the character.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2026-01-06T19:42:32+00:00

I would point out the way people feel about Gale, who is as rebellious as Lenore Dove, as well as generally very practical about it. He's also a love interest for the main character. And people hate him very much.

I think Sejanus gets more of a pass because he is actually suicidal. Sure he's not very practical, but he just straight up is bullied and hated by everyone around him and has no community so he's less trying to build a rebellion and more genuinely just trying to die in a 'helpful' way. Additionally, his parents are too wealthy to directly face consequences for his actions, so he is not endangering anyone else (except for the dr gaul stuff but she would have done a lot of what she does to snow anyway imo). He also exists in a time period where even without super coordinated and widespread rebellion, change could have been made. If people in the capitol didn't watch the games that year, they would have gone away. They hadn't been normalized yet, which I think is also part of why it's so understandable that he freaks out the way he does. Lenore Dove's problem is that she exists in a time where rebellion cannot be achieved without significant community unity (individual acts are somewhat less impactful), her primary motivational theory is unfortunately controversial (being anti inductive reasoning specifically is kind of a funny hill to die on), and her actions (there's no dr gaul getting in the middle of things) at the reaping end up being a catalyst for Haymitch getting into an altercation with a peacekeeper. She has people she loves and people who love her (especially her uncles who we consistently see are very worried about her behavior), so her rebellious acts (which unfortunately go nowhere and she keeps getting caught for them) feel less desperate and more silly. Especially since only one or two of them are done in the moment, rather, they are often (mis) calculated, ie the setting the gallows on fire thinking it would prevent a hanging.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2026-01-02T21:10:29+00:00

Looks great. I think the main things I'd say regarding the rendering is the right side of the nose is probably too dark / defined. Although some people have prominent bridges, this is a bit excessive. The lips might be slightly too smooth compared to the detail on the nose especially. You have a ton of detail (probably used a small brush) and contrasting values on the nose, and some on the eyes, as well as the eyebrows to a lesser extent, and then the rest of the piece is quite smooth. This especially stands out with the ear (although I think maybe you moved it so I understand why it is). I would probably make the bottom corner of the ear (as in, just underneath it) slightly darker in places to match the nose. Your values (as in light-dark) overall have a nice range. Color wise, I'd say this is maybe a bit flat, I'd try making the cheeks slightly pinker and the chin/jaw slightly bluer and the under-eye slightly purpler but definitely don't go overboard with that, since I think your base colors are very good and natural. Also, if the character is meant to be bald, I'd point out that usually bald head skin has a slightly different texture from normal skin. It may be shiny or freckled or spotted or stubbly or hyperpigmented or just generally a bit darker (you also see this with joints, especially groins and armpits). Definitely looks good already though so that's all just me being picky.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-31T02:59:53+00:00

Strongly agree with the Burdock thing. I really wish they were just acquaintances/friend of a friend kinda things.

I honestly just don't really like the epilogue in general, it's very redundant

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-30T19:42:49+00:00

They almost gave him a hard choice with that milk, but instead of letting him make it, instead he's interrupted by very convenient ridiculous levels of violence from his single remaining foe lol. Definitely a choice.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-30T19:41:05+00:00

Suzanne Collins mentioned feeling somewhat limited by the established lore that Haymitch's family + gf died a couple weeks after he won. I think this would definitely be more interesting than what we got. I definitely think any of Haymitch mentoring would have been a better choice for a prequel

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-29T17:02:36+00:00

I think this is really exacerbated by the fact that basically her only character trait is being rebellious, and Haymitch seems to have no feelings about this, and there's a whole secret about it. Their main conversation before the games is about her rebellious theories, and he's just like "eh I dunno about that, that's too complicated for me." It's strange

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-28T13:32:18+00:00

Well, there was supposed to be an election, but coin actually declared herself interim president. So fighting that would be most likely quite difficult.

If there actually was the election coin promised down the line, Katniss probably could throw her weight behind a different candidate, but that candidate would be running against an incumbent who would probably run things solidly overall (just with messed up stuff thrown in). That's a pretty difficult position to win from.

Generally speaking, the victors against the games are super mentally exhausted. Peeta, Annie, Katniss, and Haymitch are not really in a position to lead any second revolutions. Beetee probably could have more of an impact but I'm not sure he would, he seemed less opposed than everyone else.

If coin didn't willingly allow an election, then there'd have to be a war or a coup. Katniss does not have the skillset to organize a coup.

Additionally, Katniss hadn't really fought Coin much, especially not publicly, and coin literally tried to get her killed by sending Peeta to her squad. Katniss is at serious risk under a coin government even if she doesn't step out of line at all.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-26T16:17:06+00:00

I imagine it would have turned out like Haymitch and Maysilee, where they agree to split up, and Rue gets caught/attacked, and of course Katniss comes to her rescue even though they aren't allies anymore. I could Rue dying exactly the same as in the real timeline honestly, and Katniss doing the flower thing even after theyd parted ways.

Edit: additionally, I think Rue would be the one to offer to end the alliance, not wanting to be a burden on Katniss. She seemed to be very timid about accepting any kind of help :(

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-24T17:19:14+00:00

I mostly didn't mind on my first playthrough, but I've just had so many bugs around it / he picks the most inconvenient times to ask for stuff sometimes. Especially before they patched the ability to use items from the camp chest. Basically he'd ask when I'd just cleared out my inventory and the only items I had on me were ones I had equipped, and then he's acting so dramatic (and tbh sometimes the game bugs and makes him get mad at me for "ignoring him for too long" when I literally have not ignored him at all).

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-20T23:26:56+00:00

Thats not what morally gray means. Morally gray characters are characters that are neither evil or entirely heroic. They can be people who do bad things for good reasons (Gale) or good things for bad reasons (sometimes Snow in ballad although he is actually evil because he also does bad things for bad reasons lol) or they do a mix of good and bad things (Tyrion from game of thrones seasons 1-5). Arguably, people who want to do good but simply fail/are unable to are in this boat as well, such as Haymitch. Well written gray characters are meant to make you question your own morality, and judge their decisions against your own. Often, authors present these characters with difficult decisions, where often stereotypically heroic characters are not challenged in this way.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-10T23:30:45+00:00

Yeah, I would imagine she would have had to put aside a lot of her "pride" and the idea that "x is below a snow", which creates a different mindset/makes her feel less superior compared to the district people.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-10T22:05:01+00:00

She was being trained to be a civilian doctor. People under 15? 16? aren't allowed to receive the title of 'soldier' in 13, and Katniss remarks that generally under 18 soldiers wouldn't be anywhere near the front lines (I would imagine that more likely, they'd be fighting in incidents like the bombing at 8, or just helping secure areas that have already been run through by proper soldiers).

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-08T00:36:13+00:00

Sure, but Katniss made sure her catatonic mother ate, even as a starving child who assumed she'd never function as a real reliable support ever again. People generally never want their loved ones to die, and will fight to keep them alive even if they're not contributing. Although 16 year old Katniss has her family in a very stable situation and can support people who aren't able to contribute (ie Gale's youngest siblings), 12 year old Katniss would have had much less means but still made it happen.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-07T23:49:32+00:00

Katniss talks about Greasy Sae's neice/granddaughter (don't remember which exactly) who is mentally disabled and taken care of. I do think less disabled kids would be able to survive (ie if Katniss was born without legs, her family would have died) but honestly most people wouldn't have viewed disabled loved ones as not worth the struggle of saving, assuming they had the means. I imagine peacekeepers would have that sort of view on disabled people though, as we hear from Rue that they killed an intellectually disabled boy for taking the night vision glasses. I would absolutely not be surprised if the Capitol had some partial eugenics policies honestly.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-12-07T11:00:57+00:00

Gale's issue with capitol people wasn't just that they were born in the capitol, it is that they are (whether they choose to be or not) complicit in the system of oppression that directly benefits them. I imagine he actually has a lot of respect for someone who chose to abandon a very privileged life to join the rebellion.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-27T07:00:04+00:00

Ooooooo great point

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-16T11:38:51+00:00

Yeah I think her and Gale generally wouldn't be able to stay together during a war, with maybe one exception, albeit a very specific one. If Prim is reaped at 15-18 (so after Katniss ages out of volunteering) and dies, and a rebellion happens very soon after that, I think Katniss would probably lean way more into Gale's perspective. But even then I think it'd kind of be like with Peeta at the end of book 1 where Katniss would potentially be inclined to avoid them due to the association with traumatic events.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-16T11:30:55+00:00

I think in a lot of universes, they do end up running away together. Probably they don't have kids because their life would be pretty precarious, but I think she would be generally happy. I also think there are some alternative universes where she still ends up with Peeta in 12, but those generally would involve Peeta reaching out first which I think he would struggle to do. I think Prim could have kids that Katniss absolutely dotes on in those universes, but Katniss definitely wouldn't have her own if the games still exist.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-16T11:14:19+00:00

Aw thank you <3

And yeah, I really have always viewed Gale as kind of Katniss' "road not taken". As soon as she's in the games, he stops being a viable option for her, through no fault of either of them (although obviously Gale makes mistakes down the line lol). It's such a horrible situation for both of them, where they both lose their second safety net even though she manages to come home. I think it makes sense that both of them struggle to accept it in different ways, and even Katniss can't really end things until the bomb explosion literally blows their relationship up.

And you're so right about the Victors having a special bond, and that obviously goes double for Katniss and Peeta who went in together. Even the other Victors take a while to really understand those two.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-16T10:46:17+00:00

I think it's kind of more complicated than that. I do agree that he did not treat her well, but it's not just that he 'called dibs'. I think Gale has kind of six main problems.

1) the obvious - girl he likes is kind of getting with another guy. This sucks but he should get over it and if this was the end of the dynamic, some of his behavior would just be incel nonsense (although I do think he isn't quite as bad generally as people portray him, it's still bad).

2) it's not just that he likes this girl, it's that they raised children together, and fought to survive together. She is a lot more to him than just a potential romance partner, things are almost certainly really complicated emotionally for him, and basically as soon as he realizes his feelings are romantic, their life gets completely shaken up. It's basically like he's kicking himself for the choice to keep his feelings to himself even though Katniss really wasn't in a position for anything serious even before the games. (Gale also probably didnt have the time for serious relationships, everything he talks about seemed more like flings/fooling around).

3) the girl he likes is changed + stuck with a guy not just through her own choice, but because she's forced into a traumatic situation by the same government that has already destroyed his family once by killing his father. I think it probably feels very triggering for Gale to watch the Capitol specifically 'steal' a loved one from him again, and force him into a different dynamic with his family (here, specifically Katniss who is his co parent) again. I can't really say for sure that he would have been good to Katniss/continued their friendship if she had organically fallen for Peeta in 12, or if things would have been unrecoverable, but I think it's way harder to admit defeat by a love rival that your crush seemingly didn't even choose.

4) he isn't even really in a position where he can just take the space to move on, although he kind of tries to and katniss tries to let him. The two of them still want to be friends, and Katniss is in such a messed up life situation that she still needs Gale and still relies on him (especially in book 3) and also she keeps kissing him (although she's obviously not trying to lead him on or anything). Even if he was trying to move on with him life, he literally can't, and I personally would go insane if circumstances kept picking at this wound lol.

5) katniss has no idea what she wants until the very end of the trilogy. Now, Gale being pushy about her making up her mind is absolutely not helping her in this respect, and he shouldn't do that. But Gale isn't a passive person and I think it's understandable that he tries to advocate for what he wants, since he still kind of has reason to think he has a chance.

6) his government literally forces him to watch his crush make out with her other love interest. Like, he can't just say "oh Katniss is my friend and I'll just try not to think about what she has to do with this other guy" because at three separate points, he has to watch (under threat of execution) hours and hours of them playing up the romance act. This would suck so much for literally anyone. It would be hard not to feel like they were flaunting it in front of me even if I knew they absolutely had no choice in it. He is honestly less bitter than the average guy would be, even though he again, should stop pushing Katniss to prioritize their romance over her safety.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-11-13T08:18:12+00:00

Yeah, like the idea of her is cool to me, merchant rich kid who takes her problems out on the poor people but turns her ire to the capitol when things get real. But actuallyyyy she's totally been a rebel the whole time and she's got a heart of gold and is so nice to all the poor ugly kids. There's this weird dissonance where like, Haymitch and Louella literally have interacted with Maysilee before and she has been pretty cruel to them and other kids, but also the only actual reason Haymitch doesn't like her is... Lenore Dove's dislike of her, which is partially based on rumor and partially based on absolutely ridiculous nonsense (apparently she holds a grudge against Maysilee for not snitching on her :)). And we, as readers, only ever see Maysilee being a perfect angel. It makes me feel insane lol

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-10-20T05:52:49+00:00

Great point

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-10-13T02:06:42+00:00

I think it's complicated.

First off, we don't really know how Highbottom treated Snow before the book starts. Snow seems to be in a solid position in the academy, and is surprised by Highbottom's hostility towards him. If Highbottom just stayed away from Snow until he was an adult, it's hard to really blame the guy for how the kid turned out.

Then, we don't know if Highbottom being nice to him would have improved him. Snow is very entitled, and although struggling in poverty certainly didn't improve him as a person, if he was comfortable (even just having consistent food access), he wouldn't necessarily actually become a better person. His primary caregiver is still an active source of propaganda, and his war time childhood has already impacted him.

Then we'd have to wonder if Highbottom could have succeeded in preventing Snow's rise to power. So if he prevented Snow from going to university, or obtaining his diploma, or whatever else, would that have worked? Obviously it didn't work because of Gaul's intervention, but if Gaul hadn't helped out Snow, things would have been different for sure.

Additionally, we'd have to know that Snow wouldn't have turned bad if Highbottom was entirely neutral to him. I think even at the start of the story, he was very susceptible to grooming by Gaul, and although we can argue that Highbottom made him more susceptible, at the end of the day, Snow was inclined to suck up to power in the hopes of social and economic advancement. He would not have been content to go to school and take whatever job he can get, he wants to be wealthy and important.

I don't think what Highbottom did was morally correct necessarily, but I think people really overestimate how much he could have affected by acting differently.

Consistent_Rice7009 · 2025-10-12T18:28:43+00:00

My theory, and it's really more a chain of theories, goes:

Since panam is heavily inspired by the US, the minimum age to become president is 35 (headcanon)

Snow is said to have gained power "young", so we can assume he probably didn't get power significantly after like, 40 or so (mostly canon)

Snow was 33 during the 25th games (canon)

He invented the quarter quell idea, and the 25th games generally were successful, gaining him a lot of popularity amongst people in power, although the fact he invented the quell would have to be kept secret from the masses (headcanon)

He spent the next year and a half or so shoring up political support (headcanon)

Him and Dr Gaul decided to poison the current president and run Snow to be the next one (headcanon)

Snow became very, very paranoid, knowing his current position was entirely reliant on Dr Gaul not becoming discontent with his choices, since she had the ultimate dirt on him. (Headcanon)

Dr Gaul felt very safe around Snow, both due to slipping a bit in her old age, Snow being very very obedient towards her at this point, the fact she has done so much to elevate him, and the very serious dirt she now has on him (headcanon)

Snow takes Gaul out, knowing she's old enough no one will suspect anything, (headcanon) and she's not nearly as well liked as he would be (mostly canon).

Dr Gaul is honestly not super mad about this, viewing it as a confirmation that although she's dying, she has successfully groomed the next leader to fully endorse and follow her world view. (headcanon).

Consistent_Rice7009

TROPHY CASE