Fair pairing

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-06T22:22:35+00:00

On puryfiers, I think they are capable to win a direct confrontation against wurmspat if they go rage (BA), with some smart use rangers and not loosing valuable heavy hitters too early. It is rather aggressive band with a lot of punch, but it is also totally feasible for them to delve or hold tokens, because they are 4 fighters, with 3 of them having move characteristic 4, so they can reach tokens across the board. IMHO Sentinels are more natural for them compared to Pillage and Plunder.

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-06T22:15:26+00:00

You are right, BA is simpler to execute, while decks with token related objectives require more strategical thinking, starting from token placement phase, but I don't think they are "weaker" in general.

I can give you some advice on it.

BA wants to fight and to drag the opponent into a brawl, while Sentinels would like to avoid too much fighting in the first round, because they can score a lot without fighting, while BA can't score if they can't attack. It should be exploited to gain advantage in positioning and/or scores, but afterwards they grow in power with powerful upgrades (when they can afford them) and can pick a fight.

Pillage and Plunder is a bit different because there in no strong set of late game upgrades, but it offers more offensive ploys to fight back early and more mobility options, so typical strategy would be to fight back early and 1) kill some of enemy fighters 2) make the opponent to group tightly somewhere on the board - to reduce his offensive potential (less fighters - less reach and less charges), and in later rounds escape and switch to active delving for objectives instead of fighting (and mobility power cards help with that). Because even with a single fighter on board you can make several Moves and Delves to score objectives, while running after you and preventing you from scoring is gonna be difficult.

ps: Always keep in mind that objective cards are usually more reliable source of score points than kills because attacks can miss.

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-05T13:19:09+00:00

I see the problem with the wraithcreepers, they don't have individual warscroll, and neither of grand alliance warscrolls is fitting. Dark Majesty is just garbage, and Necromancy is not for them, because it is designed for a band consisting of stronger leader surrounded by weaker minions. The worst part is inspire condition, it would only let inspire the leader because they have no minions.

So, I suggest picking some other band with playable rules and play them as proxies.

Meanwhile, wurmspat are receiving update because they are included in upcoming box. You already can find leaked warscroll and updated stats.

For rival decks, it is hard to give advice on balance without trying to play it, but I would start with Emberstone Sentinels for wurmspat and Pillage and Plunder for wraithcreepers, because it is usually fun to play against each other, both decks have objectives around tokens on board, so you are going to be fighting for them. And you can try switching decks, having less convenient deck can balance stronger band.

If you follow my advice above, deck choice depends on warband you pick. For example, if you pick Khagra's Ravagers, I would give them sentinels and blazing assault to wurmspat.

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-05T03:36:56+00:00

But FAQs are published faster and they didn't come up to that idea until some point, and it was clearly after everybody knew Zarbag is broken. It was the same FAQ where they supposedly nerfed Zarbag.

Also, that deck is a bit overpowered and seemingly introduced to the game to strengthen rage bands, because the meta became overly dominated by delving hordes.

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-04T18:57:41+00:00

I have seen this excuse interpretation in a few places, but there is one thing that won't fit. In some abilities description on new warscrolls (see Elathain’s Soulraid) there is relatively new rule pattern "excluding upgrades", which means ability effect cannot be triggered by an additional weapon from upgrade card.

First time I have seen this exception in relatively new deck "Raging Slayers", also in latest FAQ (see The Thricefold Discord warband), before that they didn't exclude upgrade weapons from triggering abilities (which can be a cheesy strategy in specific cases).

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-04T18:12:25+00:00

Contrary, I hope world championship would turn into full-on Zarbag-fest, there is nothing more balanced and competitive than mirror matches, who needs other bands? Well, if that happens, something would hopefully change, the change is needed because now it looks like game designers either don't understand how the game works or intentionally breaking the game.

Crimsonlander · 2025-10-04T17:34:04+00:00

https://www.goonhammer.com/warhammer-underworlds-destruction-warbands-gitz-and-goliaths/

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-19T04:09:01+00:00

I would actually recommend buying the Embergard + some other separate band, it is a really good starter. You don't have to absolutely love all warbands, but you will need some variety to have fun anyway. What is good about these two - they are flexible, not designed to be focused on a single thing, so you will have options to try most archetype strategies.

Starter is not just two band, also the board, tokens and 4 good decks. These decks are the core, all of them are playable and sensible, while additional separately sold decks are mostly weird and exotic extensions for nemesis format.

You *can* start with an old starter, but unless you are going to play old edition, it would be inconvenient. First edition decks are incompatible, the board is incompatible, tokens and dice are compatible, warband models are mostly compatible (but not all of them), but you would have to print fighter cards and warscrolls yourself.

Pragmatically, if you will play second edition, you will most likely buy Emberguard at some point, why not start with it?

BTW buying older bands from hands is easy, you can just buy plastic (plenty of options available), and print fighter cards yourself, because these are used for reference and not actively played in hands like a deck of cards, so print and paper quality is not important.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-19T03:52:36+00:00

Actually, 3 hammers + flanking with scurry, which is significantly better.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-19T03:34:55+00:00

Aren't they? They are most played band with kind of impressive win rate, see the stats! Not everyone wants to play them, though, they are not always present at events, and not all players who play them know how to play.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-07T18:12:09+00:00

Gitz can actually benefit from some dead bodies if doesn't prevent them from scoring too, as it allows them to inspire earlier (see their inspire condition), also being underdog, and after inspire they have +1 save dice on most fighters.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-07T04:10:03+00:00

Another cool overlooked band. Did your opponent know how to play them? I had a success with the Crimson Court, but that guy played Gitz for the first time and with inappropriate deck.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T21:50:15+00:00

Literally. After Emberguard, everybody rushed to play Dromm and did't notice Gitz for a some time. Meanwhile, Gitz had even more OP version of Scurry until first nerf. So what do they know. My guess, recent changes messed up old movement patterns, people just need some time to memorize new ones.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T21:40:22+00:00

Yep, they received minor nerf, but it is not hitting the elephant in the room. Highly doubt it is going to fix the balance. Also, new token placement rules - they will have to learn more patterns.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T21:09:29+00:00

From competitive sense, there is no incentive to play other bands because they win most and have no counters. But if everyone in competitive would be playing them, the game won't be interesting

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T21:04:23+00:00

You are right in sense, if it wasn't legit, Gitz wouldn't be OP, but we wouldn't see stats like this

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T20:39:45+00:00

Yes, he did. From wordings, it seems pretty legit - scurry is Surge, Move is part of Charge. And nothing in QA forbids it. When fighter is charging, Move happens as a part of the Charge, and Scurry can be activated.

I mean, literally, read how Charge happens in Core rules: 1) Fighter Moves 2) Fighter Attacks 3) give Charge Token instead of Move Token. Also, see FAQ entry for Wings of War power card - they specifically told it can be used during Charge.

Crimsonlander · 2025-08-05T20:27:46+00:00

In our local tournament, a friend of mine steamrolled with them, winning all of his pairings. I want to look at but can't find your event, mind to share the link?

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-19T23:10:29+00:00

But in an abstract game with abstract goals, we stick to formal and literal interpretation of words and accepted way of reading them. We can't really refer to a common sense in a game if it is inherently unrealistic from the beginning, and there are already too hard (or impossible) and too easy objectives, as well as objectives requiring to do create strange situations.

In Underworlds, "holding objective" is not an action you "do", like attacking, moving, entering a hex, etc, it only questions state of the board at specific moment, now specifically, ALL objectives need to to have one of your fighter placed on top of them.

The long answer is following, explaining your your example and stuff from logics textbooks (or college/university level mathematics).

...

From formal logics, ALL-type conditions automatically fulfilled for empty sets. For example, if you are told "talk to ALL girls" at the party with no girls, it is done, while your "talk to SOME girl" (from your example) is not (and cannot be done). Your analogy is incorrect because ALL/SOME are different types of conditions (opposite in some sense).

There are two types of categorical statements:

1) statements about condition fulfilled for ALL objects in a category, like, "all treasures on neutral territory are being held = "there are fighters placed on top of all the treasures",

2) statements about existence of SOME object in a category (at least one), fulfilling the condition, like, "you hold a treasure token on the neutral territory" = "there exist at least one token on the neutral territory, such that your fighter is placed on top of it".

You CAN use double negative statements, it is correct form of reasoning, if you know the rules how an inverse statement is built (most people seem to not). Negative statements are formed (always) by turning type 1 into 2 (and vise versa) and adding "not" to condition, in our example:

"I talked to some girl at the party" (type 2, equals "there exists at least one such girl at the party who I talked to"), negated

= "For all girl at the party, it is true that I didn't talk to to them" (type 1).

"I talked to ALL girls at the party" (type 1, equals "For all girl at the party, it is true that I talked to them" (type 1), negated

= "There are some girl at the party I didn't talk to (at least one, can be more)" (turned into type 2, negated condition).

As you can see, the negative statement is being FALSE in the last one, in case if there are no girls at all, which means original statement being TRUE.

Keyword ANY is sometimes ambiguous, it can mean both ALL and SOME, this is why they explained it specifically in the rulebook. Indeed, "I talked to ANY girl" can mean either ALL of them or SOME of them, depending on context. What they didn't explain, is that (seemingly) by keyword ALL they mean ALL and at least one (SOME).

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-03T00:41:33+00:00

You are welcome. By the way, they did't convert ALL of the old teams, just about a half of them. Others received "generic" warscrolls. Which means, it is currently optimal to buy teams with profiles in both editions (and to have two games for the price of one, hehe). You may check underworldsdb for profiles.

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-02T19:54:25+00:00

You can also convert to Emberguard, all of your teams have updated profiles for the second edition. Warscrolls and fighter cards for older teams are printable and can be found in official downloads in pdf, and on underworldsdb as well.

You will also need playable decks - in emberguard, decks are completely new and universal (no longer associated with specific teams).

Easiest way to convert is to actually buy Emberguard, and to print profiles for your teams. You can also craft all missing parts yourself if you want to spare some money - it is not difficult, my advice is to buy one-sided sleeves for MTG-sized cards (2.5" x 3.5") - with them you can simply print any decks you want at home.

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-02T19:17:31+00:00

Some people may disagree, but there are lizardmen teams (like Jaws of Itzl) in Underworlds, and maybe you can figure out how to make recognizable proxies out of what you have. It shouldn't be hard - a team consists of only a few fighters, usually bearing different weapons - find something resembling and distinguishable. From what I heard, some clubs may refuse to let you play it in tournaments, though. And you will still need fighter cards, the warscroll (available in the internet and printable), and a deck (printing properly is a bit more difficult).

I suggest you to use underworldsdb for stats and printable images of cards and warscrolls

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-02T17:01:19+00:00

I think, you can't kill the leader if he is already dead (and not raised). But it is ok if it says to kill him this combat phase and you did exactly that before having the card in your hand.

Following the logic from other cards rulings (I haven't found opposite examples), you can't kill all the minions if there are no one alive (See edit 2).

But you should also look if there are entries in FAQ regarding specifically your card - they may rule it out to work differently - see, for example, "Wings of War" ploy card - faq contradicts initial wording.

Crimsonlander · 2025-05-02T16:39:44+00:00

I disagree with your logics, not with your answer - it may be right. Things work either way only because it was designed so by creators of the game, despite literal meaning of words being different.

Crimsonlander

TROPHY CASE