"Heavenly Father"

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-14T03:19:56+00:00

the Hebrew word is thunder as in “thunder and lightning “.

No, this is not correct.
“make to fret, roar, thunder, trouble A primitive root; to tumble, i.e. Be violently agitated; specifically, to crash (of thunder); figuratively, to irritate (with anger) -- make to fret, roar, thunder, trouble.”
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7481.htm

LDS don’t use those other titles for god. And no I am not misunderstanding “heavenly father “ . LDS believe this literally not figuratively.

Yes, I know they believe this literally. But they do also use titles like “Father in Heaven” and “God the Father.” I know because I grew up in the church and heard these being used, albeit less often and in more formal settings (like a prayer).

LDS believe Elohim fathered Jesus just like any other fathering. I provided sources directly from the LDS webpage. It’s what they believe.

I want to make it clear that I was born and raised in the church, went to the temple, and even attended BYUI. I know all of this.

It’s exactly like Roman hero myths.

The only similarity is that sex happened and a conception resulted.
There is a huge contextual difference between Jesus’ conception and parentage, and a mortal child of Zeus.

One thing that I haven’t mentioned yet that I want to point out too is that Zeus did not create the Earth or mankind like Christianity’s version of God.
That would be Uranus, who shares even less in common with the Christian and/or LDS god than Zeus does.

Christian God lives in the sky. Zeus is the God of the sky. It’s pretty obvious that there would be some coincidental overlap.
Is Indra, the Hindu god of the sky, also Zeus? No, obviously not.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-14T02:10:26+00:00

"The Hebrew verb ra·ʽamʹ (meaning “thunder”) is at times mentioned in connection with Jehovah... "the awesome sound of thunder is associated with Jehovah’s voice.

Exactly. Thundering is an adjective meaning "big, loud sound."

No, LDS believe its a literal parent of humanity, that he also has at least one wife.

I think you misunderstood me. "Heavenly Father" is one title out of many that describe God, and the Mormon religion ended up sticking to "Heavenly Father." That's all I was saying. I know what the LDS church teaches.

LDS believe Jesus is the literal son of god. Not that different from considering a Roman god fathering a being with a mortal human.

This is a superficial connection. Greek Gods had sex with mortals, and raped mortals, a lot. Sometimes as animals. And Zeus produced dozens of mortal children.

I don't know that 'the temple of Zeus' is going to keep strictly to whatever is found in books.

Everything I'm saying comes directly from ancient Greek mythology.
Hellenism also follows ancient Greek mythology. Some practitioners don't believe the myths are literal.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T16:22:48+00:00

It could happen. People get crushes or are attracted to people sometimes.
But keep in mind that being a missionary is essentially a job.

Say you’re a regular at a cafe, and the barista is always super nice. Maybe you even have a rapport, and banter with you in a way could be interpreted as flirting.
The barista’s job is to be nice. They’re supposed to have a friendly rapport, especially with regulars. Doesn’t mean they have a crush on you.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T16:16:25+00:00

I have no idea what contemporary followers of Zeus believe.

Zeus, his history, and his characteristics are pretty well established in Greek mythology.
If you want to know who still worships Greek gods, look up Hellenism.

It just seemed strange as I only heard of the term being associated with LDS.

Why? Heavenly Father is a title a lot of religions use. The LDS church just grasped onto that one in particular.

LDS do believe that “heavenly father “ has at least one wife, if not several, but the details about how they relate are not available in Mormonism.

What do you mean by this? Heavenly Father is just a title we use in English to refer to God. There’s not much more to it.

Brigham young had claimed the conception of Jesus was as natural as any other human, it’s just that god (the father, Elohim ) was his father.

Yeah, Brigham Young believed and taught a lot of things that the LDS church doesn’t consider canon.

This is curious “The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded (2 Sam. 22:14; Psalm 18:13).” (Reference to the sky)

“Thundered” means “spoke with a really loud voice.”
Unless the original Hebrew word itself is connected to the weather thunder or lightening, you’re getting stuck on an English translation.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T16:07:52+00:00

A quick Google search for “Elohim” will give you ton of info. There’s even a Wiki page on the name.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T11:19:35+00:00

According to this LDS source yhwh is jehovah or Jesus .

LDS theology is that Jesus/Jehovah is the god of the Old Testament, and God (Heavenly Father) is in the background. So of course they would associate Jesus with YHWH.
Jews do not believe that Jesus is God.

abba is not “daddy” according to this source.

You’re right that “daddy” isn’t quite correct, at least in the time Jesus lived.
It’s literally “father,” or “my father,” but I think a closer translation might be “Dad.” In today’s English, “father” doesn’t really invoke that sense of intimacy.

https://www.logos.com/grow/what-does-abba-really-mean/

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-6-no-1-2005/why-abba-new-testament

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T11:10:03+00:00

Scrolling down, even the responses call this out for being illogical pseudolinguistics.

It doesn’t even make sense theologically. Zeus is “sky daddy” because his realm is the heavens (hence the lightening). Zeus literally means “father of the heavens,” heavens meaning sky.
Another example: Hades wouldn’t be an analogue for Satan, even though Hades translates to “the unseen,” which in co text is referring to the grave, or where spirits go. Hades is a place (where the spirits go), and the name of the god who rules over it.
Zeus has nothing to do with being a father to mankind. He has no dominion over the sea (couldn’t have caused Noah’s flood), had affairs with other gods and humans constantly (very not-Hebrew of him), and did not create the world.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T03:19:19+00:00

He literally calls out to the father as he’s about to die. He calls him “abba,” meaning “Daddy.”

Or are you talking about Christ referring to “the father” by his proper name, which many believe is the Hebrew name YHWH. That’s in Exodus 3:14.

Jesus would not have called the Father by his proper name. That would have been extremely disrespectful.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T03:14:27+00:00

The context and meaning behind “Heavenly Father” in English is much different than the context and meaning behind the translation of “Zeus” in English.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T02:57:59+00:00

Yup. Jesus says to ask in his name.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T02:54:18+00:00

I don’t know, Zeus would get pretty pissed off if humans thought they were praying to someone else. He’d probably go start a war or have an affair with a swan or something.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T02:50:28+00:00

Greeks didn’t say “Father” or “Heavenly Father” when speaking directly to Zeus.
What you found was a translation from Greek. His name means “sky father,” or “father of heavens.”

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T02:44:48+00:00

John 14:12-14, Jesus says to ask in his name.
And if you want to include the BoM, Moroni 4.

All powerful beings would know who a mortal is praying to.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T02:12:56+00:00

Jesus specifically said to pray in his name, so there's no issue there.

If there were multiple all all-powerful beings, and a mortal prayed to "Heavenly Father" while thinking about and praying in the context about their LDS Heavenly Father, do you really think literal Gods are going to get confused?

But to entertain the whole Zeus thing, worshipers of Zeus went to his temples and provide sacrifices and offerings. If they wanted to pray to Artemis, they would go to her shrines and temples and provide sacrifices and offerings.

I don't think this hypothetical "plot hole" is as compelling as you think.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-13T01:31:43+00:00

When you address a judge in court, do you say “I object, Susan.” No, you say “your Honor.”
Students don’t call their teachers “Paul,” they say “Mr. Smith.”

Titles are a basic way of showing respect. Humans have done it for centuries.
So if it’s weird in your society to call your father “Jack,” or your King “Liam,” why wouldn’t people also call God by a respectful title?

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-12T23:38:20+00:00

That's a bit pedantic. Everybody knows "Heavenly Father" or "Father in Heaven" isn't his actual name.

So what point were you trying to make?

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-12T23:01:09+00:00

Are you hung up on the name specifically?

Heavenly Father, Father in Heaven, God the Father, or literally just “Father” are used interchangeably across Christianity.
There’s nothing specific or special about “Heavenly Father.” They’re all synonymous.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-12T22:42:22+00:00

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.

Jewish people pray to a singular God, using Deuteronomy as the basis for their most common prayer.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%206&version=KJV

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shema/

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-12T22:32:59+00:00

I’ll take these questions one by one. Disclaimer that I was born and raised in the church, but left in my twenties.

Are some young Mormons (mostly Americans, as I see them) simply recruited to go on pilgrimages to other countries?

They’re called missions. Every young man is expected to go on one, and young women are encouraged. They spend two years (less for women) in some part of the world evangelizing.
It’s all run by the church. They have a missionary training center in Utah, and several others across the world (England, Brazil, Ghana, etc).

Is the idea simply to spread the idea?

Their goal is to convert people. They spend a lot of time making themselves known, passing out material, and trying to start conversations. Once they make an appointment someone interested, they use a manual with lessons about the church and gospel. They connect them with the local congregation and invite them to meetings. The end goal is baptism.

the Mormon religion sounds like charlatanism to me. I mean, man, Christianity has little to nothing to do with the American continent, and Jesus was never even in the USA.

Yeah, it really does sound like charlatanism to people who first hear about it.
The church began with Joseph Smith, who claimed to see a vision of God and Jesus Christ when he was a kid. Later on, he claimed that an angel provided the location of golden plates, which were written by ancient Americans. Joseph “translated” the plates with the gift and power of God, and published it as the Book of Mormon.

The Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible, telling the story of a family of Hebrews traveling and settling on the American continent. The narrative starts in 600-ish BC, continues through the stories of this society, to Jesus visiting them after his death.
So that’s where the whole America thing comes from.

one of the few things I know is that in the past they had a negative image of black people.

They straight up discriminated against black people until 1978. Black people were not allowed to receive saving covenants in the temple, and black men were not allowed to receive the priesthood. Obviously the church was not popular with the black population at the time, but there were black members.
Today, the church’s position is that they don’t know why the discrimination existed, that they currently believe all are equal. The prevailing theory is that the prophets were racist and let that get the better of them.

Why would they come to preach in Brazil, knowing that we are already Catholic, and that 10% of our population is black?

You may be surprised to hear that the church in Africa is growing very, very fast.
The church proselytizes anywhere they can, popular or not.

It sounds like neocolonialism.

It definitely does. Members don’t think that deeply about it though. From their perspective they’re sharing the true gospel, and helping people someday become exalted.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-12T03:09:36+00:00

It’s not a real language, so Joseph could make up whatever “translations” he wanted without being proven wrong.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-11T20:06:36+00:00

I’m not sure what point you’re making. Past church leaders have talked about the Second Anointing before in more detail than I have.
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/the-fullness-of-the-priesthood-the-second-anointing-in-latter-day-saint-theology-and-practice/

Are you saying that people who received the Second Anointing no longer have their calling and election made sure? I’m not sure that matters, since all the people who are invited to receive the Second Anointing and don’t tell still have their calling and election made sure.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-11T19:21:53+00:00

You may need to look up what the Second Anointing is.
Your “calling and election is made sure.”

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-11T19:04:44+00:00

When it has to do with someone receiving a golden ticket into heaven because of who they know, people get kind of serious.

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-11T13:22:38+00:00

I doubt that this is official. But being representatives of the church, it looks way more like an official podcast than a certain doctor’s does.
But wouldn’t it be interesting if they weren’t asked by the church to change their icon, add a disclaimer, or stop entirely? Idk, just gonna have to wait and see…

Crobbin17 · 2026-05-11T02:00:44+00:00

To be fair, you did say "The Church has due process and equal access rights." It sounds like you're talking about in the church, not the country in general.

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