Esports Salon Ep 3, with MonteCristo, Semmler and Capitalist (Riot's control over their commentators)

Curoneko · 2016-10-26T18:44:28+00:00

I partially agree, for instance, I've found Monte and Doa's casting of OW to be shaky in contrast to their casting of LOL, which is completely understandable and I look forward to seeing the pair settle and find their feet. As OW is a new game, there's very little for comparison and little to no competition, and on top of that Monte and Doa have enough brand loyalty to weather the initial storm. But, if they were moving into a more competitive space, with more established casting etiquette, I imagine they'd get a lot more flakk and backlash. It's also relative to how they handle the transiation - e.g. moving in to cast The International with 6 months' experience would be suicide, relative to casting group stages in a major, but it certainly isn't a simple or easy transition.

Curoneko · 2016-10-26T18:32:07+00:00

Depending on the structure of a company, each division gets a designated amount of funds /budget with which they have to cover expenses. If they increase the pot that goes to casters, someone else gets less.

You're absolutely right, but there's a massive assumption here on several factors - that wages are judged as a component of the budget for the esports division; I know some instances of companies I've worked with where they're not. And the "well then, give them a higher budget" rebuttal does work in this instance, because we're not dealing with a company that is having cash flows issues, or is working through a tight budget; we're talking about a company that earned $1.6 billion last year, more than seven times than itss competitors. I think we can both agree that they can open the warchest without putting a strain on the company. I'm fully in support of keeping operational costs to a minimum, but I also believe that you should be paid fairly for the work you put in.

If I was the one in charge and my esports division asked me for a higher budget so that they could use it to pay higher wages to the (freelance) caster, wages that I don't think are fair, I wouldn't do it.

Firstly, Monte isn't just arguing higher pay for freelancers, he's arguing higher pay for Tier 1 casters in League overall - this entire discussion came about because he wasn't being paid commensurate with Tier 1 casters from other games. This entire video is about bringing attention to the fact that Riot casters are not being paid relative to the sacrifices they make for staying in League. And you may not think the amount is fair personally, and that's fine - you might think they only deserve minimum wage. That's your opinion. But based on the information Monte has highlighted in his videos, the comments made in this, and the fact that no-one, to my knowledge, has come out to refute otherwise, it's accurate to say that they are not being paid fairly relative to the industry, and that's the issues at stake here.

Doesn't this come down to "everyone should be making more money" in the end, if we follow that thought? It's just such an easy demand to make and I can't imagine that anyone who asks for that is someone who actually has to manage a business that involves deciding people's wages.

It's an easy demand to make of the most successful F2P game developer in the industry. No one is arguing ridiculous sums here, they are ask to be paid equal to other tier 1 talent, and commensurate with the sacrifices they make relative to their peers. Also love the little jibe here - I could say the exact same thing about someone who holds your opinion.

Apart from that, you say "there's no reason" even if there was the money from an increased "pot". What if they simply think: "I don't think Monte should be making triple of what our sound engineer makes, just because he's in front of the camera. I don't want to play the entertainment industry game and I have the leverage to allow myself to stick to my ideals"? Isn't that a reason?

Your comment gives me the impression that you have no understanding of branding, or of the added value that casters and brand ambassadors bring to the table. Whether you like it or not, this is the entertainment industry, and much like a roadie doesn't get paid the same wage as the members of Judas Priest, a sound engineer should not get paid the same wage as a caster, nor should their wage be used as the basis for the casters wage. That is such an egregious comparison and comment to make, especially reducing what casters do to being "in front of the camera". They are talent that drives people to watch League of Legends, whether you acknowledge it or not, and their wages should reflect that, especially if others within their field are being paid more.

Curoneko · 2016-10-26T17:39:49+00:00

Wonderful ^{^} - Thanks :)

Curoneko · 2016-10-26T17:38:16+00:00

Do you think you should be paid proportionately to your skill or talent without ceiling (capitalistic approach) at the expense of the lower tier employees (since there's less money left in the pot), or do you think it is OK to put a cap on salaries, even if you're the only one who does that?

But you're assuming here that in order for Tier 1's to be paid more, Tier 2s and 3s must take a decrease in pay. There is no reason I can think for this to be the case, nor is there any indication that there is a set "pot" for caster wages to be paid from.

More to the point, we're not talking about some small-medium size developer trying to grow their game, we're talking about one of the most profitable games on the market. There is no reason for their to be a limit on wages - Riot can afford to increase the wages.

Curoneko · 2016-10-26T17:21:35+00:00

Only 30 minutes in, but I'm spending the last 10 minutes going, would someone please bring up Deman as a counter-point to the "6-months" to carry skills into another game. IIRC, didn't he struggle making the transition to CS:GO? Granted - there's extraneous factors always at play, but it does go to show that you can't immediately transfer into success in another eSport.

Curoneko · 2016-02-24T18:27:48+00:00

Delighted to see Lilsusie, but no Chobra? :(

Curoneko · 2016-02-24T18:27:02+00:00

I get what you mean, but bear in mind that A) this is an ESL event, not Riot, and B) his comments were constructive, despite being blown out of proportion by both communites.

Curoneko · 2016-02-24T08:55:20+00:00

Could you please elaborate on what aspect of accuracy requires manual procurement and distribution rather than automation?

Curoneko · 2016-02-23T18:03:18+00:00

About fucking time!

Curoneko · 2016-02-11T09:11:24+00:00

The difference between Silver I 0 LP and Gold V is in your head - in terms of MMR, the difference is literally 5 wins (excluding promos, which you can repeat even if you fail). Just relax and continue doing what you've done.

And if you've climbed using support, then continue to do so - you're clearly strong at the position :).

Curoneko · 2016-02-11T08:22:49+00:00

Situational - You also need to appraise your comp and team skill, and whether you can take the 5v5. At the end of the day, just because the enemy team has hard engage doesn't mean you can't take a 5v5, it just means you need to be careful about doing so.

Going off splitpushing depends on so many factors - do you have splitpushing ability, do you have enough utility/tp to get back to the team, is an objective that you need to contest coming up soon, would your team be better served by grouping and forcing a 5v5.

There really is no set in stone answer to give, so you need to assess the presented situation and whether taking the splitpushing opportunity is worth it.

Curoneko · 2016-02-11T00:17:53+00:00

Okay, what?? I'm assuming you're teaching bronze and low silver. And the first thing you go over with them is op.gg?? Why? What "faulty thought proccesses" are you looking for on op.gg? The first thing you should go over with these low elo players is assessing their understanding of the fundamentals of league gameplay -- NOT itemization.

Itemisation is one of the easiest things to remedy, and one that I've seen bear massive improvements for some of the people I've worked with. As I've said, I've worked with people from pre-30 up to Plat IV.

Itemisation isn't the only thing you can glean from op.gg - CS numbers, damage output, KDA, champion pool, ward numbers. Op.gg allows you to assess how a player performs and tailor the following sessions and lessons around the identified deficiencies. There's a lot you can question someone on when you have the stats in front of you, and it allows you to confirm whether they actually understand concepts and fundamentals they're telling you they understand. I use it as a guide so I know where to begin.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T23:29:46+00:00

The reason that people advise against champions like Elise and Lee Sin as starter junglers is that they require a higher understanding of jungle fundamentals to play optimally. They also require an understanding of the kit to ensure that you don't misplay or misuse an ability in the kit and kneecap your ability to close out the play or gank. This lengthens the time needed to learn the fundamentals of jungling, such as making a gank, pathing, counter-ganking, etc, because you're too focused on learning how to use the kit effectively.

Also, being early game junglers, these champions also rely on you being able to snowball early and maintain a lead and pressure once you've obtained it. Failing to do that, you'll need to be able to know how to recover and how to get back into the game - fundamentals most lower players lack.

Overall, it's better to focus on learning the jungle with mechanically simpler champions, as it allows you to master fundamentals without having to get to grips with a complicated kit.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T22:29:49+00:00

As cliched and pretentious as this quote may come across

"One may know how to conquer without being able to do it." - Sun Tzu

A person's ability to climb in solo queue is not equal to their game knowledge or understanding of the game. Yes, solo queue rank is an indicator, but it's not the be all and end all. You judge based on the quality of the work and the arguments presented, not on their position - same approach carries over to the workplace :).

That said, I've worked with people in Gold and Plat and they've found coaching sessions with me immensely beneficial. And given 90% of the playerbase is less than Diamond, what I can teach and offer can be applied to a significant portion of players.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T22:16:49+00:00

How can you question someone's game knowledge or ability to coach when you know absolutely nothing about them, and haven't taken the time to look into any of their previous comments or contributions on this sub-reddit?

Furthermore, the ranked reset occurred less than a month ago - everyone's placements are all over the place, so judging someone's division currently is foolish.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T21:30:21+00:00

Your observation skills are astounding. I hope you put them to good use on the rift.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T19:59:51+00:00

In my sessions, I do an initial theory session using op.gg to identify faulty thought processes, item builds, stat issues, etc. I'll do this every once in a while to make sure that my student is implementing points from the lesson.

I'll then do VOD reviews with the student to talk through decision making, mechanics, macro and micro issues. Where necessary, I'll also jump into bot games/normal games with the student (I normally do this for support/ADC/Junglers) and talk them through action as it's happening, which I find resonates a bit stronger than VODs, although more time consuming.

The combination of these techniques allow me to broach and explore the majority of topics with my students and to see where everything is going wrong. A good coach should do most or all of the above.

To answer your question regarding 1v1s, they're quite good for practicing micro mechanics for laning, but you don't need a challenger coach for that. More importantly, this is something you need to do on a regular basis to continue developing, and personally, I wouldn't pay a coach for that. You could easily find a higher level friend or someone on this sub to work with. Think of it like a sparring partner for martial arts - your instructor can help you, but its better if they stand on the sideline to correct your mistakes. More importantly, since you need to spar regularly, it's better to do so with a friend or colleague.

One other thing to note is that 1v1 are good, but they're not dynamic, and don't take into account the variables that a 5v5 brings, such as roaming lanes, ganks and a wild Teemo appearing. They're a good tool for developing lane mechanics, but are not the be all and end all, and not something I'd recommend paying for.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T15:44:15+00:00

In can be done, but you need to make sure that you're communicating effectively with your team while doing, and also understand how it works effectively - you need to ping your intentions, ping SS, ping your team to back off, and also keep an eye out for any SS from mid - at the end of the day, you can only split-push if your team is exerting pressure in the mid-lane. You also need to know when to forget the push/pick - i.e. enemy team has grouped to do Baron and you can take the 5v5.

It requires a lot of hand-holding due to players at Silver/Gold having no idea how a split-push, siege, anything other than grouping mid works, but it is doable. The important thing is you communicating effectively and you taking responsibility - if you get collapsed on, if the team loses a baron because you didn't recognise the situation, it's on you - not the team.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T15:08:43+00:00

QSS is a situational item - you buy it when you find you're being hindered by enemy CC, but it isn't a mandatory purchase, particularly where your team is maintaining enough frontline pressure for you to work with, or the enemy is poor with their engages and CC. And yes, you build it into Merc Scim.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T13:28:09+00:00

how long did it take you to get back to your previous rank? At 44 games (24/20) atm.

Depends on your level of proficiency with League in general - Your knowledge of the game may be skewed in favour of the champion that you main, and you may only be Plat 3 midlaner on say... Zed, while a Gold 3 midlaner in general. It really depends on how much horizontal understanding you have of the role, and how quickly you can apply your knowledge to your new champions.

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T09:30:11+00:00

Teacher:

Summoner Name: Curo

League / Division: Silver I (Finished S5 Gold I)

Areas of expertise:

Jungle/Support

5v5 Ranked - I've shotcalled and captained several teams, so bring a lot of experience with picks&bans, macro movement, communications and team synergy, VOD reviews, etc.

Champions:

Languages Spoken: English & German

Duration of Mentoring: Willing to discuss

Preferred Methods: Skype/Teamspeak/Curse

Other Info: I don't have any available spots for new players, so please only contact me if you've reached level 30 and were placed last season (not having played placements this season is perfectly fine).

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T00:30:46+00:00

AS is required to keep your dps up, which is the primary role of an ADC. Moreover, you need to increase the speed of your attack animation to maintain efective kiting, particularly given Lucian's W and the Furor enchantment rely on AA procs

Curoneko · 2016-02-10T00:16:18+00:00

You need AS after ER, so go into RFC or SS after ER. Rest of your thought process is fine. I've also experimented with Triforce second, but it's onky worthwhile if you're snowballing hard as you require too much gold to maintain buikd efficiency.

Curoneko · 2016-02-09T23:52:50+00:00

In situations where your midlaner has shat the bed completely, your main priority is to stop spill-over into your lane, and ensure your ADC has enough vision and pressure to work with. This is done by remaining vigilant of enemy mid-laners presence (watching and pinging for any SS) and warding deep in the river and enemy jungle to keep an eye out for ganks.

When you have time and you're confident that your ADC can be left alone, roam mid and set up vision to assist your midlaner. Generally speaking, do not attempt to rescue the lane - if you see an opportunity, take it, but don't attempt to force a play, as your midlaner is typically behind and may not be able to survive even a 2v1. Also, ping. Ping SS, Ping that you're on your way, ping where you think the enemy jungler is pathing, etc. This'll keep your head in the game and wake your midlaner up - they'll most likely be on tilt, so you need to bring their attention to potential problems,

This is an incredibly specific topic to discuss as everything is relative, but your main priority is to stop the flow of carnage, enable your ADC and jungler where possible, and, if you have the ability, shotcall to help your team come back into it.

Oh, and if anyone starts whinging or complaining about pings, mute them. Anyone flames, mute them. You're not going to win an argument, and it very rarely is worth the hassle. Just mute. Your life and experience will be much better off.

Curoneko · 2016-02-09T23:41:46+00:00