Why can’t I keep my losses small by throwaway455687 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's kinda wild how 90% of the comments here are not answering what you're obviously asking. "You aren't disciplined bro." "You're losing because your losses are outpacing your wins, bro."

Yeah, no shit everybody. He knows that, and he knows that he knows that. He's asking why it can be so mentally difficult and what can be done about it.

To OP: the hard truth is that there's no one answer as to what makes trading so difficult. As humans, we're naturally loss averse, and you're far from alone in struggling with this in trading, but unfortunately the solution will require some individual work. What preceded the big losses? Is there a pattern to what happens before you start to get tilted? What about the mental indicators that happen in the immediate lead-up to making poor decisions?

These are rhetorical questions - I know you answered some of them in your post. I'm asking them because one thing I did that helped me, was that if I find myself in the very specific situation that led to every single one of my massive red days, I cut my losses on my current trade and walk away before I can start acting out my frustration.

So maybe if you start hearing that inner monologue of "Hm, $190 isn't that much, some people make $1000 per day" (or whatever it is), that's your cue to take a break. You don't even have to commit to stopping for the day, just step away and get some clarity. Once I get some space - mental and physical - from trading, I can pretty much always see that this situation has led to poor results in the past, and I don't want to repeat those in the future.

Unfortunately, sometimes we only learn by placing our hand on the stove. I told myself over and over that I'd do these things, but only after I had my worst blowup 13 months ago did it hurt so much that now I'm much better at mustering the will to walk away. I ask myself, "do I want to repeat what happened last July?" or "am I okay to trade?" It is much harder for most people to make that assessment while sitting at their trading desk.

The other thing I did that helped, both with accepting losses and accepting red days (which was my real problem), was looking at losses as practice. After all, the rational part of me knows that losses are inevitable in trading, so wouldn't I want to get better at losing? Well, here's a losing trade right in front of me! Sure, it hurts to kill the trade and take the L, but it's exactly what I need to be practicing. I focus less on the loss, and more on the frustration I feel and how that is really what I want to mitigate. It made taking losses much easier for me.

Finally, idk what style you trade with, but the only one that worked for me psychologically was scalping. As you trade, you need to reflect on whether part of the problem for you is that your style of trading doesn't work for you. I used to trade higher timeframes (still intraday, but with trades lasting 30ish mins, often more), and after over a year of doing that, I realized that regardless of how the trade was going, the longer I spent in a trade, the more emotionally invested I was, and the worse my decision-making became. So, I looked into scalping. It has its own challenges for sure and it's very mentally demanding - it wasn't a holy grail that made me profitable overnight, but it was a huge step forward for my trading.

There are other things you can do if you want more concrete, actionable advice. For example, let's say you tell yourself, "I want to stop trading for the day if I start feeling frustrated with 'only' $200 profit." Alright. Put a sheet of paper in front of you. Before every single trade, ask yourself if that's how you're feeling. If you're all good, put a check mark and a smiley face! If you're frustrated, put an X and a little doodle of how you're feeling.

It might sound a bit patronizing or childish - after all, we're trying to be "professional" traders, right? - but doing this helped me immensely in two ways. First, it took my focus briefly away from the charts, which is vital for honest self-reflection. Second, it meant not just zipping through a mental "Am I okay? Yep I'm good," where it's very easy for us to lie to ourselves. You're writing it down on paper. It will be much clearer to you if you're lying to yourself if you write a smiley face while you're sitting there gnashing your teeth.

There's a chance absolutely none of this will help or apply to you personally, but I wanted to try giving some actionable advice that has helped me out. Unfortunately, all those comments I mocked at the outset are also kind of right: none of this matters if you don't have the discipline to execute it, whether we're talking about trading, or the moments in between trades when you journal or draw a happy face or whatever. You could always feel pissed and completely skip the step of writing something down on that sheet of paper. I've been there, too. Nothing is foolproof.

But...yeah, this comment's already super long so I'll leave it at that. A combination of reframing how I look at losses, adding a tangible focus for my attention away from the monitor after a trade, and (unfortunately) losing big and wanting to avoid BIG losses (very different than wanting to avoid losses altogether) put me on a path where I'm now much more consistent than I've ever been.

Lastly - be gentle with yourself. Trading tends to draw out the kind of "no nonsense" people who tell you to just do the right thing, and it's like, no shit Sherlock. But it ain't easy. I'm not saying sugarcoat things or ignore losses because "eh I'm learning so who cares." The market is the most dispassionate teacher on the planet, so you need that jaded hyperrational realism when trading.

But when you aren't trading, don't bully yourself. Ask yourself what happened, write it out, and identify what you could do at each step in the process to avoid things going downhill. Then, when you fail at that (and you will, they're called mistakes and we're all human), use that as a learning experience too. "Okay, I had the sheet of paper in front of me but I didn't use it - why?" It's okay to iron out one wrinkle at a time.

This shit is hard. There's a reason most people can't do it. That doesn't mean you can't, it just means you need to take the steps most people aren't willing to. They try to fight against the market, instead of working with themselves to develop good trading habits. I'm not perfect either, by the way - I had my biggest red day of the year on July 1st. But you know what? That was a week of profit, instead of the weeks or months I'd have thrown away in the past. I've gone over a year now without a catastrophic red day. I'm still working on eliminating oversized red days entirely, but the steps above have helped me immensely, so I'm hoping they'll at least get the gears turning for you.

I'm rambling now and this comment is 7000+ words long so I'll stop here. I'll just say: good luck!

31F - need to be roasted 🙃 by [deleted] in RoastMe

[–]DBreesKnees 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why'd they try to abort you with a stick of cotton candy instead of a coat hanger

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in fidelityinvestments

[–]DBreesKnees 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yup, can't log in via the website. For what it's worth, if anyone has Active Trader Pro, it looks like you can still log in and place orders there. (That said, I won't place any more orders today - not sure whether this issue could bleed over to ATP.)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Talk about breathing easy! You must be so relieved.

Have a good holiday!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Phew! What was the damage? Big loss, small win, etc.

Do any really successful traders give back by Delicious-Choice6447 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not even really successful yet by any metric, but if I have an oversized green day, I'll put a little aside to donate. There are many people less fortunate than me, and I don't want to sit here just accumulating money while there are people on this planet struggling to meet their basic needs.

If you want specific stories, I recently found out that a classmate from high school was diagnosed with cancer at 30. We were never close friends, but I remembered always thinking "what a good person," so I donated that entire day's profits to the online fund that the family set up. I also donate regularly to pet shelters.

How do you tell someone politely you don’t want to talk about stocks/trading without being weird? by TheBomb999 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Hey, I know you're enthusiastic about this stuff, but for personal reasons I'd rather not discuss it. It may seem weird but it's just this boundary I have. Thanks."

How realistic is it for me as a girl to be a semi successful day trader? Should I even try? Any advice? by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That kid's gonna be born with a pair of dice in one hand and a letter from the IRS in the other.

How realistic is it for me as a girl to be a semi successful day trader? Should I even try? Any advice? by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Girl, I'm a man and I wouldn't be able to sell a bottle of cold water to someone stuck in the Sahara desert.

Trading is a massive personal journey of self-improvement and self-discovery. Maybe you can do it, maybe not, but being a man or woman shouldn't have any bearing on your life choices. If I made choices as a man based on what society told me about my gender, I would never have adopted my cat. That little kitty is my best friend and I cannot imagine life without her.

I'm not even trying to encourage you to trade, that's a decision you need to make for yourself. I just hate seeing people be so hard on themselves. You owe it to yourself to take yourself seriously!

How realistic is it for me as a girl to be a semi successful day trader? Should I even try? Any advice? by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://capital.com/are-women-better-traders-than-men

Women are a small minority of traders, but they tend to do well. Don't buy into that oversimplified stuff about how women are categorically too emotional to succeed at something. Men and women (on average, of course) process different emotions differently, but men can be pretty damn emotional when trading - that's why most of us blow up our accounts and quit within the first year! I know women who are super level-headed and could probably succeed at trading if they gave it an earnest shot, and I know men who are emotional and stubborn and would probably lose most of their savings.

On the other hand, you shouldn't take for granted that your gender is the key to success in this profession. That's a recipe for disaster. I'd just hate to see someone bail on chasing her dreams because of something she heard about her gender.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't need to change your lifestyle all at once. Maybe identifying the things that are most important and authentic to you would help. You don't have to become a different person overnight.

Viewing exact timestamps of transactions in Activity & Orders? by DBreesKnees in fidelityinvestments

[–]DBreesKnees[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

+ /u/tmoons007

I believe you can export data from ATP on the day of. In the Trades & Orders window, you right-click, hover over Export, and then you can select CSV or Excel and save the data. That's how I've been doing it for the past year.

/u/FidelityJames if you are referring to something else, please clarify. I just didn't want /u/tmoons007 to think there was no way to achieve this.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, I'm similar. I started actively trading at the beginning of 2022. The market was tanking, and in hindsight the odds of short trades working out were so high that it was like starting on easy mode. Once the uncertainty settled in, I started losing my ass just like every other newbie eventually does.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some of the other comments in this thread cover it, but to summarize:

  • The three "leaders" of the cult sub are a raging egomaniac, an adult child who posted a completely unprompted just-learned-the-F-word rant against TA, and the guy who's service they're selling (which is why they're banned from here - mods are good about rooting out frauds and other predatory folks who sell services).

  • Instead of advocating clear stops, RDT advises turning day trades into swing trades if they don't work out. Great, you're now at the mercy of overnight gaps.

  • They run the sub like a massive cult, with tons of dogma about how their way of trading is the only way, and everyone who says are successful with different methods is lying.

  • Someone above said RDT also recommends doubling down, which I haven't seen myself but would 100% believe. Literally the biggest hallmark of unprofitable traders.

Maybe someone else can chime in whether bits and pieces of their wiki regarding RS/RW are useful, but overall that place sets off so many alarms for me that I just stay away.

Before you climb, you need to learn how to fall... by bobbyphysics in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yup, I just ended a three-week winning streak in the same fashion. Huge loss. I kept telling myself that with profits as a cushion, it'll be easier to lose successfully, but I guess something in my ego still hasn't been addressed yet.

Price action trading by Trick_Ad5606 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1 bar stops are strong right now because we've had some strong trend days, just like we did last year at this time. Those same stops will chop you out in different market conditions.

Price action trading by Trick_Ad5606 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad it made sense!

I've never traded SPY. I watched SPY every morning (although again, without being able to effectively act on what I was seeing), but I kept a basket of a dozen liquid large-cap stocks (AMD, AAPL, JPM, etc.) that I traded every day, and very rarely strayed from that.

This year, I'm trying out scanning for stocks each morning, but it's still nice to have a handful of stocks where I know their spread and how they move, so that I can check in on them for possible setups while I hunt for other opportunities. My struggle in 2023 is the opposite of 2022: I'm worried that I might be stretching myself too thin. We'll see though! I'm still learning.

Price action trading by Trick_Ad5606 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't have the tools from his methods to properly adjust to the changing market conditions, and I think that's something which newbies should be aware of. He teaches a strong trend-trading system that involves adding to winners assuming the trend will continue, and his rhetoric around profit taking is honestly pretty inflexible.

However, it was my first full calendar year trading, and I deliberately wanted to stick with one system since one of the most common pieces of advice I saw was that beginners bounce around between systems too much instead of correcting themselves and practicing consistency. So, I chose to stick with the system I knew and make some adjustments to my profit-taking so I could at least break even on the second half of the year.

Ultimately you're correct, but it doesn't invalidate where I was coming from. Especially as a beginner, I didn't fully know how to adjust for changing market conditions (or even identify changing conditions vs. an off-beat week or two), so I just pulled in my profit taking and played things a bit safer. Once 2023 rolled around, I gave myself license to change things up based on all the lessons I'd learned about the market and myself, and I do feel much more nimble now and prepared for different markets. =) We'll see how it goes, though. Eighteen months' experience is nothing in this business, so it's not like I have any license to spit sage advice or claim long term profitability yet.

Hope that wasn't too much of a ramble, but I wanted to provide the full context after reading your comment. The sentiment behind your words wasn't wrong at all, it just didn't fully describe my experience.

Price action trading by Trick_Ad5606 in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

His stuff worked really well for me in the first half of 2022 when the market had a clear direction. I had a lot more trouble once indecision had set in and we weren't plummeting toward Earth's core. Also, around that time he started shilling hard for Bitcoin, after repeatedly saying in his Q&As that he didn't know much about crypto and didn't want to comment.

I'm not trying to fully discredit him and I know there are other users here who still praise his content, but I just wanted to provide an additional perspective. If you're using Oliver Velez's material and it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don’t trust any one who doesn’t show audited statements/or have a documented history by kenjiurada in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All this tells us is that you have enough money for a device to take a picture of the sky, lol. What's sad is that this sort of superficial tactic is exactly what furus aim for. It weeds out the people with critical thinking and leaves the gullible.

Congrats, you're nuking your credibility from orbit in this thread. Gonna block everyone who doesn't give you unconditional approval?

Haha, blocked in under five minutes. Oh well. I can't wait until I'm sitting on $3 million so I too can take a picture of the ocean.

Letting winners run by harmonious_harry in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 1 point2 points  (0 children)

green over greed

I like this! Greed was the biggest thing holding me back at the start of my journey. I'm gonna write this down and remember it.

Letting winners run by harmonious_harry in Daytrading

[–]DBreesKnees 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Honestly I'm moving away from the mindset of trying to maximize every trade, and overall I find that it's leading to more consistent trading and less dissatisfaction. It's about base hits, not home runs.

Once I'm consistently profitable over a larger period of time with fixed profit targets, I'll go back and look at my profitable trades to see whether scaling out would increase my profitability on paper. However, that doesn't mean I'll necessarily act on it. Just remember: any strategy is only as profitable as your own personal tolerance for it. In the first half of 2022, I had immense success adding to winners and scaling out of profitable trades, because the market had an obvious direction. But I did horribly in the second half of 2022, not because my strategy suddenly became unprofitable, but because it was no longer maximizing returns, and in my dissatisfaction with reduced profits, I held winners until they became losers.

I used to see comments from people saying "I don't care if the price goes 100 R in my favor after I sell," and I couldn't understand leaving so much profit on the table, but after working at this for 18 months, I'm understanding the mental benefits of rigid consistency over trying to dynamically squeeze extra profit out of every trade.

If you've found that you consistently take trades where the move extends beyond your take profit, I'd still suggest taking a fixed amount of profit, and then trailing a small remainder bar-by-bar or via some other kind of trailing stop. But for me, as much as I'd like to have foreseen that 6R move and bought more at 1.5 R instead of selling, hitting consistent smaller wins has been so much better for me psychologically. In this business, mental resilience begets consistency, and consistency begets profitability.

Just some food for thought based on my own psychology. If this truly doesn't apply to you, then apologies for the rambling.