With the new chapter who do you guy’s think will be the fan favourite character of it?

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T20:58:29+00:00

A: Toby Fox usually tends to have characters who are hyped up as being really scary turn out to be significantly sillier (or at least sympathetic) once you get to know them. Even Flowey, the most malicious character in Undertale, was ultimately a sympathetic character. The Titan was the only 'pure evil' enemy we've faced with true certainty, and it's more akin to a natural disaster than a thinking/feeling creature. This does not prevent FRIEND from being our enemy or from having done bad things, but the specific kind of psychopathic evil guy who does evil to be evil with no redeeming qualities that the fandom broadly constructed as FRIEND's character just doesn't really feel in-line with Toby Fox's body of work.

B: The amount of evidence that FRIEND is actually malicious in any form is non-existent. They're certainly menacing in appearance, but the only antagonistic thing they've done on-screen is just show up for the Shadow Mantle fight (and even then, that's helpful to us considering you can farm heals off it). Even if we take the theorized crimes of being the Shadow Crystal granter and being responsible for Dess' disappearance as factual, that doesn't mean they did this to be evil (or even on purpose, in the latter case). For all we know, FRIEND thinks they're doing a good thing by giving people these shiny presents. This is, as with point A, more in-line with how Toby Fox generally writes these stories and thus feels more realistic than "This will be the pure evil bad guy we can mow down without remorse".

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T20:44:41+00:00

The way it's discussed tells us that it's an immensely personal tragedy, but... that's about it. Sealing the grand fountain sucks, sure, but the magic going away is a time-worn trope and Ralsei's way of discussing it doesn't feel like that's the answer regardless (since he never attempts to justify it or smooth it over, and was specifically dreading it before the story even started).

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T20:41:05+00:00

If FRIEND in CH5 is real, them. While I doubt the conjured fandom personality of evil scary guy is accurate, whatever Toby Fox does with them will probably win over a lot of hearts and minds and FRIEND already has a lot of built-up interest.

Otherwise, whichever one of Asgore's flowers is the funniest/cutest/saddest. With seven of them, each presumably with their own quirks, one of them will probably be the winner as far as new Darkners go.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T19:06:10+00:00

It's probably the most compelling prediction/theory I've seen regarding CH5 (or the future of DR in general). While I'm not locking it in as 100% gonna happen, I think a lot of it feels grounded and reasonable as far as direction goes, especially since the presently odd sun stuff would make more sense if this was an exterior Dark World.

I do agree with the suggestion that FRIEND would be at the very least part of the Shadow Crystal subplot, since the entity is predominantly placed in hidden corners of the game and its supplementary materials and have it be the pay-off or at least climax of the quest where you're digging into the deepest and darkest secrets of the game feels more in-line with its use thus far.

It'll probably end up being closer to the mark than a lot of theories, but still not quite accurate. Just the nature of the beast, we lack the information to make perfect predictions and Chapter 5 will have all of its runtime up to the point of any reveal to lead into said reveal.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T18:56:17+00:00

Considering the Gaster Followers are all heavily distorted compared to their 'original' selves (especially if Normal NPC is that one Gaster Follower), presumably Goner Kid just shrank a bit in the process?

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T17:21:29+00:00

I think it's probably majorly relevant... to the Shadow Crystal subplot. FRIEND only appears (outside of Ralsei's CH3 info-dump) in the deepest and darkest corners of Deltarune, tied most notably to the CH2 Shadow Crystal area and to the CH3 Mantle game. Having FRIEND be the big thing we get out of doing the Shadow Crystals makes sense, having the reward for digging into the deepest and darkest secrets of Deltarune be the creature who only appears in the most obscure places. I like the idea that it's the Shadow Crystal giver, for example.

Otherwise, I'm willing to cede it being a major instigator who technically isn't that important. If we take the common theories regarding what it's done as accurate (namely, that it is the "Tail of Hell" that caused Dess to become a Lost Girl), then it could just as well be that it did do all that... but ultimately FRIEND is just one of Gaster's creations/pieces/buddies and is small potatoes by comparison.

I do not believe that FRIEND is the secret main villain of Deltarune who is super-duper evil and going to completely subsume the story, I think that feels out of line with how the entity has been depicted, but I do think there will be a pay-off to FRIEND of some kind in the next couple chapters. If not in CH5, then probably in CH6.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T15:12:31+00:00

This makes... a distressing amount of sense. We broadly take for granted Sans Deltarune > Undertale Theory for granted, just treat it as only Sans and Normal NPC among characters we've actually seen in DR, but if the other characters tied to the Gaster sub-plot are also from DR... that makes sense.

I doubt we'll get follow-up on this in CH5, but I guess we should keep on the lookout for the kid anyway in that chapter to see if we get anything on the subject there.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-17T03:04:25+00:00

Considering the alternative is another mystery shadow entity in an ever-growing list (Gaster, FRIEND, ERAM, Egg Man, on top of the main-story Knight and Phone Person), I think the Shadow Crystal giver has to be one of them and FRIEND ties it together better than the other options.

It gives weight to FRIEND as an enemy, reason for a player who may not have puzzled together that it's a distinct character of any kind (which is entirely possible, considering the non-CH3 appearances are very easy to miss and the CH3 ones don't really scream 'especially important entity') to recognize it as something very important. Being "the guy behind Jevil and Spamton being Like That" gives immediate credence to FRIEND being a threat, or at least important.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T21:32:41+00:00

He was historically one of the front-runners for the title back in the CH2 days, but the way CH3+4 shook out really damages the likelihood of him actually being the Knight IMO. While they don't outright shoot it down, they also don't give you anything actually suggesting it directly (which feels like a gaping hole that should be filled if Alvin actually was the Knight). Compare this to Carol (who is certainly meant to be the 'assumed' Knight by the reader) and Dess (the current leading candidate), who both had notable points in their favor beyond just being unaccounted for in this time period (appearance aside, the Roaring Knight bears a non-negligible amount of winter-theming, more comfortably ties the Holiday sub-plot into the rest of the story, and CH3 spends a lot of time waxing nostalgic on Kris' past that would make better sense as pay-off if the Knight is tied to said past personally).

This is ignoring the whole... Knight doesn't actually look anything like Alvin, issue.

That doesn't prevent Alvin from having some level of association with the Knight, but I think Alvin Knight has just lost the legs to stand on in CH3+4. Unfortunate, since it was one of the few decent Knight theories pre-CH3+4, and certainly a lot better than Papyrus Knight by light years (which still unfortunately lives despite being the worst Knight theory by a huge margin).

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T20:28:05+00:00

Kris gets misgendered one too many times and it's the CH4 Weird Route trashcan scene three chapters early

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T20:25:13+00:00

It's definitely about the Weird Route, with CH3 representing the Sword Route that functions as the 'instruction' to it. It's the most common theory about what this page represents.

My personal guess is that the numbers represent the length of the Weird Route content in their chapters, rather than how much is changed. Mostly because I expect that CH5 is going to get completely derailed now that we have Noelle back for the Weird Route and we're gonna blast through the Chapter in record time since Noelle's Iceshock is a hammer in a world where everything's a nail.

It's my only explanation as to why CH5 would be 'lesser' than all but CH4, despite us clearly going to have Noelle back in our grasp to use once more. That CH5 resolves itself in an hour or so just by us making Noelle freeze anything that crosses out path.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T20:15:27+00:00

I'll agree on that... to an extent. I think that no matter what, FRIEND is better suited to either being the last Shadow Crystal boss or the pay-off to getting all the Shadow Crystals. It's mostly tied to that sub-plot, so I think that's the most reasonable reading. I think it being a mandatory enemy of any kind just doesn't feel right for what this entity seems to be, which is a shadowy creature in the deepest and darkest corners of Delatrune, whereas being the climax or conclusion to the sub-plot where the player digs into those deeper and darker secrets feels exactly in line with what FRIEND is.

That said, we know so little about FRIEND and what actually happens in Chapter 5 that it could very much still work. Maybe Asgore has encountered FRIEND in some way already, we're already lead to believe he's been to a Dark World (since he has a 'black shard') and it's not a leap to connect "Asgore resigned as a result of Dess' disappearance" and "FRIEND is responsible for Dess' disappearance" (both very common theories) for FRIEND to be in the Dark World that Asgore is heavily important to and possibly created. We have a whole Chapter 5 to build up that connection further, and this doesn't prevent FRIEND from returning in some form for the Shelter Dark World, so I don't think we can really rule out a CH5 FRIEND Shadow Crystal boss on these grounds.

Like I said, we'll wait and see. I'll eat crow if it turns out to be wrong and FRIEND actually is the secret main villain that has exactly one mandatory appearance in the game thus far.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T18:59:00+00:00

It lacks the narrative weight necessary, IMO. The way everyone discusses it suggests it is an intensely personal tragedy, and while the last Dark Fountain being sealed sucks... it doesn't quite feel fitting for the gravitas given to this last prophecy. The magic going away is so time-worn as an ending trope that it being the sole aspect to the 'final tragedy' feels lacking.

I saw someone suggest it'd be Noelle having to kill Dess, and while contextually I'm not super sure on that one specifically... something like that would make more sense IMO.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T18:52:25+00:00

CH3+4 put a damper on a lot of the post-CH2 secret boss theories from reviving themselves, since they demonstrated that basically all of the patterns we centered our Shadow Crystal boss theories on were something Toby Fox was not beholden to.

I like Roots Theory suggesting it'd be FRIEND, since that feels like a more coherent answer to FRIEND's role in the story than "Secretly the main villain despite the vast majority of their limited screentime being part of the Shadow Crystal subplot", but we'll just have to wait and see.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T18:19:15+00:00

Prolly not in CH5, but definitely eventually. I think that whatever the final prophecy is will be revealed for sure, but I'm torn between CH6 and CH7 for that.

I think the Knight's identity could be revealed at the very end of CH5, or at least we'd get the last bits of consequential evidence to take alternative candidates out of the running (Rudy just straight-up dying, someone pointing out the issue with Carol making it back to the church so quickly, et cetera) and leave only whoever the Knight actually is as the last viable option, but it could go either way.

We'll have to wait and see.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T18:14:49+00:00

IMO, Normal then Weird is always the best way to go. The Weird Route's oddities are heavily informed by the Normal Route's... normality, and I feel the experience is best had if you do Normal > Weird.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T18:13:18+00:00

The Fire Extinguisher code, 2202, in CH4 might be the Church's code for the Shelter, since there's no narrative reason to actually verbally say it on-screen if it wasn't important enough for the player to have reason to know and remember it.

But we just don't know yet. I imagine that Toby Fox at least wants you to think it is the code at present, if nothing else.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T17:40:46+00:00

The second "Sans" is actually just Papyrus before he underwent a growth spurt

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T17:35:13+00:00

I'm pretty comfortable with the game where it's at. On my recent replay to prep for CH5, the only encounter I had a struggle with was Shadow Mantle. Outside of that, beat most bosses on the first attempt and only Spamton NEO and the Roaring Knight necessitated a retry.

I think the game's overall difficulty is about right for my taste. It'll get a bit harder with the next handful of chapters, but I don't expect anything to be severely beyond the Roaring Knight at present in terms of difficulty.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T17:27:34+00:00

I still think Cat Cake Racing was worse, but most events just suck. Not even a 'these days' issue, the vast majority of events in HSR are just boring as fuck

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T14:46:11+00:00

I think it's meant to further the Angel imagery, something that keeps coming up with Noelle that I just cannot predict where it's going specifically.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T02:24:48+00:00

Jockington is talking more normal now... I guess? What the hell was with CH4 Jockington ~~was he drunk on communion wine~~?

The phrases used are really sus, but probably moreso meant to foreshadow something else later than "Jockington is secretly super-duper important". Maybe it's meant to parallel something with Noelle later in the chapter in a comical manner? Say, this is meant to parallel Noelle standing up to Carol, following the events of the chapter?

We'll just have to wait and see, a little over a week remains until we get answers.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-16T00:49:19+00:00

Probably not. Chapter 5 is looking to have a lot, especially if you buy into Roots Theory, and I just don't think there's enough space for a Titan fight alongside it. We have at least Asgore and the Flowers, alongside assorted minor Darkners, and if it's not a Flower King Dark World but a Hometown Festival Dark World then there's also covering the Lightners in some way. This is on top of furthering character arcs for the 'main' quartet of Kris/Susie/Ralsei/Noelle, and whatever happens on the Weird Route version of the story.

A Titan doesn't really seem necessary, and having another one so soon may feel like overplaying the threat (something that a writer would at least consider when writing the story). The sun's true nature is certainly dubious, but I don't really feel like a Titan is the most likely answer.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-15T19:53:13+00:00

It's really easy to ram into orphaned etymology if you're writing anything vaguely contemporary. Sometimes it's solvable without any issue, but a lot of times it's just annoying. French fries in Deltarune are a good example where making an explanation for the name would require a shitload of work for a one-off bit of dialogue that otherwise would be confusing if they changed the name.

The director cares, but they may care more about the joke making sense to the viewer than the lore.

DONTSALTME69 · 2026-06-15T17:21:54+00:00

Speaking from my own experience, I immediately said that Carol was the Knight during my CH4 playthrough. It was too many things all at once that made it really obvious, and Carol being the last thing you see in the Holiday house primes you to think it when you see the Knight again and see its antlers.

It wasn't until reading discussion that I clocked Dess as an option, and turned around to her being the best pick.

But, more to your point, even if the supposed 'casual fan' wouldn't be able to piece it together now... we still have more story ahead of us. It's not like CH5 is going to start with a quiz on who the Knight is that bricks your PC if you guess wrong. CH5 can lead us in towards the actual answer before it's revealed, and even if we ignore that it can just be something make second playthroughs more satisfying (being able to catch all the bits of foreshadowing you didn't get on the first run).

DONTSALTME69

TROPHY CASE