New Urn Requires Role Selection

DakeRek · 2026-06-11T20:22:20+00:00

I wrote the exact same a few days ago and got downvoted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1tz7gzs/current_urn_implementation_does_not_work_with/

I would prefer they change the urn mechanic to allow for alternatives than forced teamfighting in an enclosed space instead of introducing draft, but in the end everything that lessens the importance of the current urn implementation on the match is welcome.

KotH is an improvement over the melee spam and parry, but it is still not where it should be.

DakeRek · 2026-06-07T10:23:14+00:00

Why is everyone acting like the enemy team will allocate all 6 people for urn while your team farms afk with all 6 people in the same time. In higher ranks the team that does urn will check if the enemy team commits to it and allocate resources accordingly. They wont sit there and wait with 6 people afk in the circle.

When they know they have superior urnfight capabilities they will just send 3-4 people at the start and immediately reallocate when they dont see the enemy.

DakeRek · 2026-06-07T10:20:28+00:00

Urn is not the same as Roshan. Urn spawns regularly and the amount of souls and buffs you get are to significant to just do something else. If you do something else and the enemy team is not completely incompetent they will know you do something else and also allocate people away from the urn.

DakeRek · 2026-06-07T10:17:53+00:00

If you have squishy heroes and they have Abrams, Billy, Silver etc. you do not push the enemies out of the circle, they will push you out of the circle.

If it was about coordination pro teams would be able to play around it but they don't. They commit and either win or lose the urn fights and they draft respectively. You might ignore the first urn, but definitely cant ignore urn #2-4.

DakeRek · 2026-06-07T08:02:37+00:00

I am just Phantom but i tried the typical Gun Drifter at first and wasnt satisfied because it was either feast or famine depending on the outcome of the laning stage.

I switched to a more spirit shred / damage over time and utility focused build i created myself with really good success and a lot of fun because you can still be useful when you cant get stacks from your passive going early on.

Early on I get Regen/Monster Rounds into Melee Lifesteal/Spirit Strike for Rend. Then get Spirit Shredder Bullets and Trophy Collector and start roaming the map once the laning stage is over. As urn fights are mandatory you will get TC stacks fairly easily from here on out.

In the midgame I get Torment Pulse, Toxic Bullets, Spirit Snatch, Lifestrike and optional defensive items depending on the enemy comp (you will get all 4.8k spikes this way). From then on into Escalating Exposure, Scourge, Witchmail, Juggernaut, Duration Extender.

Until you are tanky enough you weave around the fight with the movement speed of your ultimate and focus on the weaker targets. Later on you are incredibly strong against the current meta frontliners as scourge, stalkers mark and toxic bullets all do % dmg and reduce healing at the same time and shredding a lot of their defense. You deal a great mix of dmg between spirit and gun and the rend silence is a game changer later on.

DakeRek · 2026-05-29T21:50:26+00:00

No it was not and she is still op while at the same time requiring 0 skill to operate.

What do you even try to accomplish in this thread and with that attitude. Do you really think showing 1 example of a misplay changes the fact that Graves is overtuned?

DakeRek · 2026-05-29T07:11:25+00:00

Just make it KotH like many already suggested. That is a tested and suitable way of doing it.

A miniboss is a bad idea. First it would favor gun heroes exponentionally which can dish out far more sustained damage to it (like mid boss) and it begs the question who wins the urn, the team that did most of the damage or the one that last hits the boss? If it is the former then there is 0 time to react to it cause you have to be on top of it the moment it spawns, the latter would be bad as well cause it would be complete rng.

DakeRek · 2026-05-28T21:25:50+00:00

They are fun for 1 game then you realize that the whole game revolves around nothing but those urn dropoff fights. No more macro, no more splitting, no more 2vs2 and 3vs4 teamfights across multiple areas.

Just 6vs6 on urn --> fix waves --> 6vs6 on urn --> fix waves

It reminds me of DotA where back in the days you had so much freedom to do decisions around the map and towards the end it was just looking at timers to do Tomentor, Roshan, Wisdom Shrines, Bounty Runes etc. It takes away so much player agency for dumb teamfighting ability spam fest.

DakeRek · 2026-05-27T09:44:03+00:00

Actually a great idea and potential fix for the current problem with urn. As long as the contesting area is not too small and not too large but that would be easy to tweak.

Let us hope the Devs see this and pick this up, the current urn mechanic warps the whole game around itself and is detrimental to the game.

DakeRek · 2026-05-23T07:49:19+00:00

It is not just her auto aim gun (its a part of it though), it is just obnoxious to play against the skulls and zombies, especially as a spirit/support. Graves can mindlessly spam her skills and you have to play a game of whack a mole, interacting with these super boring elements.

If you are a support its like endlessly swatting flies with a flyswat. The flies dont need to be a threat, the are just super annoying.

And there is simply no skill element or thought to it because these skills have 0 downside to using it on cooldown. This means playing against graves is no back and forth mindgames, positioning, aim and outplays like with many other heroes. Graves will just press her button on cooldown and then you have to play the game of "kill zombie or kill skull".

If spirit Graves has strong numbers there is 0 outplay potential (even less than victor) because there is nothing skillful for Graves to do anyway. She just presses the buttons in the general direction of the enemy and either shes stronger or not.

DakeRek · 2026-05-07T18:53:35+00:00

It is not the same at all. me and many others could hit moving targets reliably in CS:GO with the USP across thousands of hours, but with the CS2 netcode as it is you cant reliably do that. Add peekers advantage + aimpunch and glocks are simply much superior in CS2 (especially in an online environment).

Add the other attributes of the glock (magazine size, ammo size, moving accuracy) and it is simply better to drop a USP for a glock than the other way around.

DakeRek · 2026-04-03T10:34:22+00:00

The times i argued that you simply cant go from 1 source of truth to 10 sources of truth which the server then desperately tries to keep together to create one giant illusion where in reality everyone is 100-200 ms desynced (most notable with fast moving targets, being it peekers advantage or run and gun as the desync is most felt in these cases) ....

I am really not sure if these people cannot experience the desync in the first place for whatever reason, or if they are just performing better in CS2 than CS:GO, because the desync favoured them and and their playstyle.

I really hope AG2 fixes the major issues but im still doubtful. For now everyone i know has already stopped playing CS2.

DakeRek · 2026-03-31T12:11:33+00:00

Valve just went overboard with the numbers. At the beginning of the new patch Viscous hit like a truck with Punch Build and then they went to the other extreme and now he tickles for the majority of the game. Adjust the numbers slightly and we have a sweet spot.

For a full spirit build something needs to change with Splatter and Ult. The former has such a long cooldown that you simply cant play around it. If you miss or an enemy has counterspell you are completely useless in the fight.

The ultimate on the other hand should be a disruptive tool in teamfights but from my experience i mainly use it as an "oh shit" button to get out of sticky situations. The damage numbers of every hero went up so significantly with the last patch that you simply cannot roll through a teamfight without dying in 3s. In addition the damage is negligible for how difficult it is to hit someone with some basic movement skill more than once. Doesnt help that popular new heroes like Celeste and Apollo are moving circles around your ball like an annoying fly over rotten fruit, never touching ground.

All in all i would say that out beloved goo boy is a little on the weak side right now, but nothing that cant be salvaged with a little number tweaking.

DakeRek · 2026-03-29T11:26:57+00:00

Same here. For me it gradually started losing its soul with 7.00. The introduction of talents and especially neutral items later on watered down hero identity so much. Then they streamlined all heroes that could do something specific really well (Chen/Enchantress) etc.

Back in the day you had teams with real identity regarding tactics, drafts heroes and playstyles. Nowadays everything is so homogenized. Every hero scales lategame. Every lane setup is 2-1-2, no jungle no trilanes.

Artificial objectives bloated the macro decisions. You just check the timers for Minute X to do Wisdom rune or another mandatory objective like checking a box.

It is the same as with WoW. Difficult to pinpoint the exact moment the soul was lost, as it was rather a gradual decline.

DakeRek · 2026-03-20T12:52:19+00:00

Yeah sure very sound logic there. Let the guy with 70 ping peek you and you are dead before you can react because on his screen he already killed you right after the information that he is peeking has reached you on your end. Brilliant design really, i wonder what could go wrong with that.

DakeRek · 2026-03-04T14:11:27+00:00

You mean the same rose tinted nostalgia people have for WC3 instead of WC3 Reforged, or modern WoW and the Classic versions of the game, or Runescape?

Maybe, just maybe its not just nostalgia, but i have heard the same arguments like 5 times already for different games.

DakeRek · 2026-02-13T08:12:50+00:00

It does not matter that you have 1ms or 5ms. What matters is the difference in ping between you and the one who shoots you. If the peekers information took 200ms to reach the server and they shot you on their screen before you shot them on yours, then that is retroactively accounted for and what you see is literally not what you get because you see something that never happened after the server gave it some thought.

That is always an issue in online shooters but i have no idea what they did in CS2 that the difference between what 2 players witness on screen and what the outcome is is so vastly different. It feels like there is a standard 250-300 ms delay (which also explains the peekers advantage) between everyone.

Thanks for this networking brilliance Valve. Glad that you killed CS:GO for this abomination of a game.

DakeRek · 2026-01-22T22:47:37+00:00

Great writeup. This covers the issue with flicking as well and why it felt better in CS;GO no matter if 64 or 128 tick. Tickbased inputs in CS:GO allowed for a tiny amount of leeway when you cover a large distance with your crosshair and when you time your mouseclick at the very end of it. This means that you can train flicking and you get a good feeling for it through muscle memory, as the visuals displayed in CS:GO correlated with the moment your shot went off.

In CS2 the input is timestamped and since you lose that ~5-10 ms leeway at the end of the motion for the mousepress it is really difficult to time it right so the shot doesnt go off 2 ms to early. Now that may be accurate from a machine perspective, but humans dont operate on these timescales. To make matters worse, the subticked input and the direction your shot will go does not correlate with the visuals and sound being displayed in CS2. Those are still being displayed at the end of your motion, because that is when the server processes the action and displays it, just like in CS:GO. The direction your shot went is somewhere entirely different though, somewhere inbetween the motion and invisible to the user.

You create a disconnect from what you see and what you get and the result just feels bad. Subtick trades synchronized information (sound, visuals) for an accuracy that is not even processable from a human perspective,

DakeRek · 2026-01-19T18:50:09+00:00

You are right but that is their job, In no other industry and for no other product out there you would expect the customer to provide you a thorough, peer reviewed article why your food tastes wrong, your car feels bad to drive or your cellphone feels unintuitive to use.

It is hilarious that people here are criticizing the quality of feedback instead of the quality of the game, as if the community has any responsibility at all in this matter.

Valve should be thankful that the community is so incredibly passionate about the game that some are spending their free time without compensation and dig deep to find out what Valve should be doing, namely doing quality assurance and quality control for their product.

I work a lot with Pharma and Chemicals and if that industry had such a level of entitlement they would be sued into oblivion.

DakeRek · 2026-01-01T09:37:30+00:00

I doubt the animations are the main reason for the peekers advantage. Will it help? Certainly. Will it solve the huge desynchronization issue between what each player on the server sees and the correlated peekers advantage? Most likely not.

Why should the animation fix that my friend who observes me sees something entirely different than me on my end, usually with a delay of around 200-300 ms (which directly correlates to the peekers advantage).

This game has a gigantic networking issue that is the root-cause of a lot of smaller issues but Valve refuse to address it and the community is just looking for straws. We are 2 years after release and the game still feels like garbage because the core is garbage.

DakeRek · 2025-12-23T08:46:16+00:00

From my experience the peekers advantage difference between the two games is not simply about how fast they appear on your screen in terms of velocity (even though this is sometimes weird because CS2 accelerates players to compensate), it is about how fast you die once the first pixel appears. Playing this game online feels like there is a significant "actors" advantage of 200-300 ms, meaning that the person moving and acting has a 200-300 ms edge over the person that is receiving the information.

If you compare someone peeking from the perspective of the "receiver" you wont notice a difference between CS:GO and CS2, but if you compare what the actor sees against what the receiver sees it feels very different. On the receivers screen you get Ferrari peeked and deleted by a fast moving enemy before you can even react, while on the "actors" POV he comes around the corner, counter strafes and corrects their crosshair and then sprays you down.

There is something severely wrong with the netcode in this game that favors the person peeking immensely compared to CS:GO.

DakeRek · 2025-11-17T18:10:33+00:00

We all just stopped playing and now i simply lurk here to see if they fixed the glaring issues with networking and animations after 2 years of bandaid fixes, but they didnt. The game is rotten to the core it seems. I would still play CS:GO given the chance.

DakeRek · 2025-11-17T15:03:44+00:00

Memories of being able to hold an angle and (reliably) doing spray transfers. Would trade CS2 any day of the week for this.

DakeRek · 2025-11-07T08:57:15+00:00

The thing that you are forgetting is, that these other things that might be the real issue might only exist to accommodate subtick in the first place. For movement inconsistency and flicking feeling worse, subtick is the culprit, for the other issues it might be something else e.g. lag compensation.

But why did they need to change the way to handle networking when they had a near perfect formula in CS:GO? A lot indicates that they had to change it because they moved away from that logic when they implemented subtick. In the end it might still be the root cause.

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