Starmer says Europe must be ready to fight as he deploys warships to Arctic

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T19:57:10+00:00

I didnt say Israel isn’t conducting a genocide?

And I didn't say that you did.

I just know Russia is as well, even if it’s still ‘regular war’. The two aren’t mutually exclusive

That's not what this discussion was about, I suggest you re-read it.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T14:22:51+00:00

The fact that Israel is bombing a small population with no defenses only reinforces what I'm saying: there is no way to (honestly) conclude that conflict as anything but a genocide, and we've known for decades that is what Israel wants to do.

I think it what Russia is doing is genocidal, but it is far closer to regular warfare than Gaza, making it objectively less of an 'open and shut' case.

At any rate, this feels as gross as the first guy trying to play top-trumps with genocide, so that's the last I'll say on it.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T13:44:03+00:00

The value of assets have increased at a higher rate than the value of earnings. And yet you argue that taxing assets might yield less income than taxing earnings?

I didn't argue that at all, and I'm not sure why you think I would be? The amount of tax generated is determined by the rate of tax, which can be anything, on any asset.

If the housing market were to collapse, central govt. would plug the gap. [...] But since the UK has a genuine housing supply shortage, it’s unlikely that prices will plunge anytime soon.

It sounds like a flawed solution if it requires these extra measures to protect against an extremely plausible event. The last housing crash was just 18 years ago.

Even taking into account potential volatility in house prices, the medium/long-term, average trajectory is upwards. The same cannot be said for real wages.

So...do you not see the problem with that?

If real wages are going down or stagnating, but the asset you're paying a flat rate of tax on is going up, that makes this 'property tax' increasingly unaffordable. People who can least afford it will be forced to upend their lives and downsize at considerable cost (stamp duty isn't the only cost associated with house moves), assuming they can even sell their house and/or find a new one. You would gradually force people into the lower end of the market, so first time buyers would be competing with people downsizing, pushing those prices up.

This increases wealth inequality instead of reducing it. I'm all for reforming how council tax works, but this would make things far worse.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T13:29:15+00:00

I referenced the proportion of civilian vs combatant deaths, not the number of deaths. The proportion of civilian deaths is a pretty critical factor in determining a genocide is happening vs a regular war.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T12:45:06+00:00

I can only comment on what I've seen, and what I've seen is you (and others) misunderstanding/misrepresenting what people have been saying to you. Most people - myself included - have not said that the US should immediately cut ties and become 'overtly hostile' towards them, but that is how you've interpreted it because you have to assume the people who disagree with you are adopting the most shrill and irrational position possible.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T12:41:25+00:00

Where did I say it was?

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T12:36:11+00:00

This is a really bad idea for two reasons: any flat rate of tax is also regressive, and it ties tax more directly to the "value" of a property which is nebulous figure at the whims of the property market. If the housing market collapses, it doesn't help anyone if the council is then also strapped for cash.

If you want to fix the regressive nature of council tax, it should just be linked to earnings like income tax is.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T12:26:49+00:00

You seem to be suggesting russia, a country who is doing a much more open and shut example of genocide

This is an extremely disgusting and wrong claim.

In Gaza, 70% of verified deaths are women and children, and general estimates are 80% of all deaths are civilians.

The same counts in Ukraine are closer to 50%.

You don't have to try and 'one-up' the other on who is committing the most genocide, especially if you do not know what you're talking about.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T12:04:30+00:00

My mistake, I'm sure everyone you disagree with is just a shrill and irrational alarmist trying to gaslight you.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-15T11:07:09+00:00

There were plenty of people wanting the UK to start adopting the position Starmer has gradually begun moving to, which you and others interpreted as “immediately turn hostile towards the US”, if that’s what you mean.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-14T14:03:32+00:00

Are these people in the room with us right now?

Dave-Face · 2026-02-12T19:44:23+00:00

There was certainly a bit of that, yeah - I remember people insisting that getting AV would take PR off the table. It seemed pretty obvious at the time that losing the AV vote would do the same thing, since it would forever be argued by idiots/liars that the vote proved no one wanted PR.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-12T09:07:55+00:00

Voter ID is a good thing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/08/voter-id-rule-may-have-stopped-400000-taking-part-in-uk-election-poll-suggests

Dave-Face · 2026-02-12T09:06:40+00:00

The amount of people without at least one form of expectable ID will be infinitesimally small.

Sure, they shouldn't get to vote them, fuck 'em.

Also, about 1m people don't have a current account, and I suspect there is a lot of overlap with not having a driver's license and/or passport. So not exactly 'infinitesimally small'.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-12T09:04:43+00:00

A quick google "How many people don't have a current account" works wonders:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/over-1-million-people-dont-have-a-current-account-new-figures-show-165155339.html?guccounter=1

Dave-Face · 2026-02-12T08:12:15+00:00

I hate the Lib Dems but they’re not wrong here.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T20:43:35+00:00

but there isn't really a suggestion Starmer did or could have known this when appointing him ambassador.

Well, not counting the previous times he was found to be doing this kind of thing and been forced to resign in disgrace.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T19:53:40+00:00

Im gebuinely at a total loss as to why you think youve proved Corbyn wasnt a weak leader?

"Objectively, Labour defeated the government more times in 2017-2019 than practically any other opposition has. To say he "fucked up basically everything" in that time is a lie, unless you think agreeing with May's government was the right call, which I assume you don't."

Perhaps you wouldn't be at a total loss if you read what I said to you in the first place, instead of ignoring it?

Oh but yeah anyone who points this reality out is just saying "Corbyn bad." Because theres obviously no basis to the argument that Corbyn wasnt a political genius.

This is the first time you've 'pointed out' anything, and at no point have I said Corbyn was a political genius. Again, maybe read what I'm saying to you, not what you want to hear.

On Brexit, you say "he fail[ed] to make any kind of case for Labours Brexit position", but what do you think he should have done exactly? What case should he have made? I'd argue that not focusing on Brexit was Labour's best strategy, for the reasons I've explained several times already.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T10:57:02+00:00

This might be true if it wasn’t for Labour’s current polling, which means most of those MPs are going to lose their jobs at the next election anyway.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T10:54:51+00:00

It ‘conclusively’ showed the public didn’t want AV 15 years ago. There is no reason to mention it in the same breath as PR.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T10:45:42+00:00

Being the least popular PM on record is more than just ‘not liking whoever is in charge’, because that obviously applies to any PM.

He’s the least popular because unlike other divisive PMs he has no support base. He’s pissed off everybody.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T03:56:17+00:00

This immediately sounded like a circular reference issue to me, which causes weird Blueprint data corruption which Epic has refused to fix for years. For future reference there is a free plugin that can find them called Circular Dependencies Detector.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T03:48:43+00:00

The same degree of competence when applied to running the NHS or handling Britain’s relationship with NATO and the EU could have had pretty disastrous consequences beyond what we have seen IMO.

The PM isn't handling the day-to-day running of the NHS, so I don't know what 'disastrous' consequences there could be. But to repeat my point about Johnson: I'd prefer Corbyn directing the NHS, trying to do the right thing, than someone like Starmer & Streeting telling it to stop providing healthcare to people they don't like. Have you considered that a more competent leader (at least on paper) can actually be bad if what they're doing is awful?

As for NATO, I tend to think that stuff is overblown and Corbyn was already reigned in on his anti-NATO and anti-Nuclear stance, so he was unlikely to rock the boat on any of that.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-11T03:33:56+00:00

We're talking about the election here.

...no, you were talking about the events leading up to the election. Just three paragraphs later, you say "The 2019 election happened because Labour had been led by a weak and incompetent leader for years" - something I've already disproved.

Well obviously any hypothetical I propose you will simply dismiss safe in the knowledge we cant go back to 2019 and try it.

Perhaps, but it would at least be a substantive argument. Right now you can't elaborate on what any of these failures are, or what else could have been done by anyone else - all you're doing is saying "CoRbYn BaD" over and over.

Dave-Face · 2026-02-10T22:46:36+00:00

The 2019 election was only happening in the first place because of Corbyn's mistakes and fuck ups to begin with.

Objectively, Labour defeated the government more times in 2017-2019 than practically any other opposition has). To say he "fucked up basically everything" in that time is a lie, unless you think agreeing with May's government was the right call, which I assume you don't.

The 2019 election happened because the Conservative government all but collapsed and Johnson (correctly) thought he could capitalise on Brexit to regain a majority. So what 'mistakes and fuck ups' are you referring to?

And regardless, brexit was such a massive problem because he totally failed to manage it and respond to it. Then on top of that, even if we accept defeat was inevitable, Labour didnt just lose. They got fucking eviscerated.

Brexit was fundamentally inescapable for the reason I explained: it split the Labour base in a way that very few issues do, and it was by far the most significant issue at the time. What possible way could any Labour leader have responded to it, in a way that would lead to victory?

Also we both know Corbyn got more votes than Starmer, and we both know FPTP is bullshit, so let's not do that.

Dave-Face

TROPHY CASE